misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

..hmmm....OCTO-DAD???
Introducing the New Rx8 ME (Marco Edition),unlike the old RX8 SE (stupid engine)
It runs on Tim Horton's Urine and incorporates Bounty Paper Towel rolls as Oil filters.
Stereo only plays one song.."always time for Tim Horton's".
Uses Day old French Crueller Donuts as Drag Slicks.
In the last race it Creamed a Corvette...sweet!
..............had to..!
Andrew I just got WIX filters at 30% off at Benson's.

RXeckless

iTrader: (11)

This explains alot, now back to that oil filter and let's keep this thread on track. wow page 2

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

It's certainly not hard to find other stories like my own first-hand account of problems caused by Fram filters - yes, there are a lot of people just mouthing what someone else said about "Fram is crap", but I've certainly seen or heard a lot of accounts describing failures first hand: commonly, oil blockages from bits of glue, cardboard, or filter element coming from the filter (my case of the 6" rubber band used to hold the filter element in place while it is glued to the cardboard endcaps being passed whole into the engine seems to be a bit of a topper though, since the flimsy plastic bypass valve had to have been bypassing oil immediately on startup to allow such a large item through intact), or noisy startup problems from lack of oil to bearings or valvetrain that went away when different filters were used (due to the poor anti-drainback design in Frams commonly allowing the oil to drain out, requiring the filter to be filled before delivering pressure to the rest of the engine), or cases where the filter collapsed internally, such that the oil was no longer being filtered, or the anti-drainback rubber at the bottom blocked the oil passage.

Fram (more accurately, Allied Signal/Honeywell) is what the Mazda Canada filters are at the dealers too - orange under that pretty blue paint (figuratively, not literally) - but the original ones were Tokyo Roki or Tennex (now Mahle, but still noted for being very well made filters - these are still supplied by Mazda in the US. Are you saying Honda puts Frams on Hondas built in Canada at the factory? My understanding is that they come with better made filters from the factory, but the parts counter ones at Honda, like Mazda Canada, are Fram. This doesn't strike me as much of an endorsement that the dealer channel supplies cheap crap - they will tender it out, and buy on spec - in other words, they'll buy based on the supplier saying it meets their spec, not actually do testing themselves. It doesn't mean they're bad (taking one apart and seeing how poorly it's made will do that for you, especially if you compare it to a Mahle, Bosche, Purolator 1, Wix, etc), but it isn't necessarily much of an endorsement either - it could come down to the Fram rep treated the Honda Canada buyer to better hookers and blow

You ask, not unreasonably, if there are problems with Fram, why wouldn't OEMs and dealers know? Or the media? I turn that around and ask, how often do people find out what specifically caused their engine problem? Most people, with major engine damage on a car with over 100,000kms on it, out of warranty, would just look for a new used car, rather than tear it down to find what caused the problem - or realize that the high oil pressure combined with oil starvation damage right after an oil and filter changed equalled a problem that had to do with blockage (how many cars these days even have an oil pressure gauge? Just idiot lights to tell you when your pressure is already too low). Had it happened sometime between oil and filter changes, I might not have been looking so closely at the oil passages downstream of the filter, either - or had I not had a friend who was a dealer mechanic to bounce ideas off of. He's the one who gave me the idea of blowing compressed air backwards through the head oil feed and see what came out the other end - and had it been a bit of oil-soaked glue or paper instead of a big elastic band, it might have been missed, sprayed against the side of the engine bay or on the garage floor.

Quite aside from that, when I received my surprisingly quick settlement, I was required to sign a non-disclosure agreement, as presumably anyone actually getting paid for their damages would be. Part of the surprise was that the settlement was basically no-questions asked (beyond a copy of the receipt for the filter, and for the parts and outside work - most I did myself, but I had a shop replace the valve guides ). Later, I heard similar stories, and realized I probably didn't ask for enough (I got nothing for my labour-hours, and should have claimed for a rental while my car was down) - but at the time, like others, I was pleasantly surprised to get a quick response, instead of having to threaten to hire a lawyer and sue - and I did keep quiet about it, until I heard more and more stories like mine.

I'm willing to put my story out here, but I still wouldn't want to be publicly identified by name doing the same on the TV news or print media. That my settlement was so quick and easy was a pleasant surprise at the time, but probably is suspicious in itself - ie., they have a process in place to deal with the people who figure out it was their filter that caused damage quickly and quietly, to keep it out of the media. They may not be able to stop the "Fram is crap" tide on the web, but it keeps them out of the TV news and real journalism.

GM has a service bulletin warning against proceeding with warranty service when aftermarket filters are involved:
I understand Ford has a similar service bulletin - neither of which means a lot in themselves, they don't name Fram specifically, but I gather that in practice, that orange cans are part of what they are targeting - that if there is a problem that might be oil-related and an aftermarket filter is present, they want the filter tested before going ahead with the work.

Canadian Tire no longer uses Fram for their Motormaster-brand filters (nor does Quaker State, who also did at one time) - and they sell a hell of a lot more filters than Honda or Mazda Canada - or probably anyone else in Canada. Again, not necessarily an indictment of Fram, but not exactly an endorsement when a volume retailer selling mainly on price chooses to no longer source from the mostly cheaply-made supplier around. The new supplier (Chinese, so no doubt cheap is still an ingredient in the sourcing decision) apparently uses metal end caps and bypass valve instead of cardboard and plastic, frequently cited reasons for Fram failures, along with the generally shoddy construction/assembly).

The likelihood is, using a Fram won't cause a catastrophic failure - although seeing how poorly designed/assembled they are has made me see what happened to me was more than just an isolated incident. I originally assumed the elastic got in there as some sort of sabotage by a disgruntled employee, not a piece of the assembly process that got by another poorly designed part of the filter - I didn't really understand how they work, or how differently made what I took to be a generic part could be. It is likely most or all Frams bypass some oil even from new (some the expensive ones apparently add silicone rubber anti-drainbacks, but most use the same can, bypass, and element) - the combination of the poor bypass valve design, and small and irregularly pleated media surface compared to others makes that so. Which means some oil is regularly entering the engine unfiltered. That's not a catastrophe - when full-flow oil filters became the norm back in the fifties, the domestics found engine life was extended by about 50% over non-filtered earlier engines. And it's not like all the oil in a Fram is getting bypassed - but some is, even new, and that will go up as the media surface clogs. That, and the poor anti-drain performance are what contribute to unnecessary engine wear in Frams - and that's the biggest reason I warn people away from them. My catastrophic engine damage just made me get a lot more interested in how filters work - or don't.

CS13B

iTrader: (11)

Anybody cut open the new N3R1 filters yet? They are the black ones sold to the newer Rx-8's. They fit in place of the blue B6Y1 and are significantly heavier, but almost the same size.
Made by Tokyo Roki Co. Ltd. in Japan. Feels Quality.

I think I had my last oil change at Can-Saf before storing this past winter and I had an N3R1 on there when I changed oil in the Spring.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

They're designed for a higher oil psi, so possibly not needed.

ONLY USE GENUINE Mazda OIL FILTERS on Series 2 (R3) - RX8Club.com

Roen

iTrader: (2)

A lot of the following filters will fit our cars:

The OFFICIAL Oil Filter Testing and Results Thread (4G63T/4B11T) - evolutionm.net

StevenL5975

Excellent info Personally I use Mahle filters as they are pretty common here in europe. They really are sturdy and feel like quality. I haven't cut one open yet, but will do it when I come around. I have a good selection of used filters here as I keep em always.

The next filter for the FC I am considering is the Purflux, their filter media is zig-zaged to allow more filter material in the same space.

Here is the one that purflux lists for the RX-7, that one has a 74mm height:
PURFLUX

Bigger unit with more filter media, same specs as the other one from purflux but has 119mm height:
PURFLUX

Purflux is known for building good filters here. The original Purflux has been bought by another company if I recall correctly, but they are still making good filters. That was pretty innovative when they came out with that stuff back then, my dad sold tons of them.