Manntis

A two-stroke engine is less expensive still, but less efficient. Savvy?

A pure ICE (the 'e' includes engine) may currently be less expensive to produce than a hybrid system, when comparing like outputs (an econocar engine compared to a hybrid), BUT you're still dodging the greater than double well-to-wheels efficiency of a hybrid. Fewer fuel production costs and less demands on the fuel production infrastructure per mile travelled means less negative environmental impact (nevermind emissions - think of the fewer tankers in the water), less road damage (tanker trucks), less energy wasted through braking, etc. etc.

When automobiles first came out they were viewed as a gimic. They caught on and flourished. Electrics are efficient but prohibitively expensive. Gas powered are cheap but grossly inefficient. Hybrids offer the best of both worlds with little compromise - the slight bump in cost is nothing compared to, say, increased safety standards.

You wanna talk less expensive to sell? Lobby to have airbags deleted from cars. Canadians tend to buckle up anyhow, and this 'passive reastraint' stuff adds thousands of dollars per vehicle in extra engineering, materials, liability insurance, etc.

Your 3% peak is suspect - market analysts predicted it would take DVDs decades to become commonplace, especially after the laserdisk and beta fiascos... but DVDs became common in just a few years. Why? It's more expensive. But it has advantages that VHS can't match. The first steam powered ship to cross the atlantic had aboard it a book that 'proved' that such a trip was impossible - apparently the author had neglected to notice that coal carried more energy per volume than wood, which is what he'd based his calculations on.

Unlike hydrogen and other let's-talk-about-it-though-it-isn't-there-yet propulsion technologies, hybrids have proven easy to integrate into existing design philosophies, require virtually no fuel delivery infrastructure enhancement, and in just a few short years are already widely available to worldwide automotive consumer markets at what amounts to a very small premium when compared to their ICE counterparts. Furthermore, Ottowa is mulling over subsidies.Unlike Hydrogen or Electric cars where the real cost per vehicle might be a quarter million, but subsidies bring it down to the cost of a 'regular' car (what I call the 'screw-you-taxpayer' policy) the subsidies for hybrids fall under Kyoto obligations and, while costing just a few thousand per vgehicle sold, will make hybrids and ICE cars identical in price.

and before you say 'yeah, but that's artificially boosting a segment' remember that the Americans, flying in the face of Kyoto, offered similar subsidies on SUVs. having an Oil-friendly president, I'm sure, was just a coincidence...

cluosborne

Aaroncake,

I've been looking to buy an Insight as a year-round daily driver and have been following your thread at InsightCentral. Given the MPG numbers you got in the drive, does that mean the problems you reported are nearly sorted out?

Feds

And Ottawa only has 1 O. And today, I applied for a job as an FEA Analyst. Neither of which change the fact that hybrids are transitional at best, and on the basis of cost alone (excluding xenophobia, assuming that you meant "Fear of foreign technology" and not "Fear of foreigners" since I would really resent that) will have limited market penetration.

You and I both know that in terms of polutants, a new vehicle today actually cleans the air in the average downtown area. Leaving carbon dioxide as the major issue in automotive exhaust. As far as a reduction strategy for CO2, I would take a 5 mpg across the entire worldwide fleet tomorow over a doubling of 6% of the fleet in the next 10 years.

And yeah, I can't spell the word that represents the day after today.

Manntis

I stand corrected on the typo

Possibly - but your arguement was that there was no efficiency advantage of hybrids over ICE technology, which still remains wrong.

On the basis of cost alone a bicycle beats both hybrid and ICE - but we're talking about automotive efficiency.

I meant 'fear of the strange or different' - a meaning not common but nonetheless applicable.

An entirely subjective postulation that cannot be proven or disproven until it happens. Trying to shift your arguement to consumer acceptance does not change the performance of hybrids versus comparable ICEs.

uh - no. That's a media oversimplification meant to illustrate that tailpipe emissions are cleaner than many urban air pollutant levels. As someone who spends a great deal of time in LA I can tell you that automotive exhaust is a contributor, not a solution, to urban smog.

I would say that carbon monoxide is a more pressing issue, as plants can absorb CO2. I am confused about what this has to do with the relative efficiencies of hybrid vs. ICE in like vehicles, however.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Wow, I didn't really want to open that can of worms again. I just wanted a funny'ish thread (hence using the term "bite me").

Like most of GM's efforts, this is too little, too late. GM has about 5 smart people working for them (they used to have 15, but the other 10 were fired when they stopped EV1 development), but they are working on the Corvette. I've seen these BAS vehicles, and they are weak. The technology us useful in the sense that it can cut out long periods of idling and supply 120V power to tools a stuff, but I would be surprised if in the real world the system even improved mileage by 1MPG.

I most certainly did! The weather left a lot to be desired, but I had a lot of fun. I'll be posting some pictures as soon as I get some time...

Nah, MixedPower sucks.

That's a joke? 1800 LB is hardly heavy, and the Insight is on par with a stock 1st gen for performance. Probably handles better as well. Looks are a matter of opinion...

Driving the Insight is just as much fun as driving the RX-7, but for different reasons. And driving to get that kind of mileage takes the same kind of skill that it does to toss an RX-7 around a track...

I'm actually planning on a big post very soon, because I will be installing engine. There won't be anything groundbreaking in that thread, but at least it will show the progress.

Anyway, , Revolution was great! Lots of good things, even in the bad weather. As I mentioned, I will be posting the typical "pics and stories" thread when I get some time.

...Edit...forgot one:

Sort of...It's a bit complicated, so keep reading over at InsightCentral. I'm going to update the thread tomorrow morning with all the info....