I think it's time to do something.
03-23-10, 10:23 PM
#26
Would it have prevented the deaths of the mini-van driving family which led to the media and political hoopla that led to this law? No. Because it was ultimately shown - less than a year later when the accused Honda-driving "street-racer" had his day in court - that the supposed street racer had in fact been driving at the limit, and it was in fact the mini-van driver who was driving drunk and ran a light that caused the fatal accident that killed himself and his family. But under the new law, the Honda kid could have had his car taken away and an expensive fine levied. Then he wouldn't have been on the road for the drunken ***-wipe dad in the van to run into. Keep the roads safe for drunks!
Meanwhile, stupidity (failing to follow rules concerning merging, passing, driving distractions such as phones, music, food, etc) and drunk driving (it's own class of stupidity) continue to be the leading causes of accidents, while the chances of random motorists dying at the hands of a street racer, both before and after the legislation, continue to be less than the likelihood of you winning this week's 649 jackpot.
As far as the tax-collecting exercise known as speed enforcement generally - I assume Ontario probably has similar stats to Alberta. Here, police themselves report speed as a primary factor in just 6% of collisions, and a contributing factor in a further 20% - of course, it's arguable that any speed led to an accident, since if the vehicle(s) weren't moving, no accident would occur. While driving distractions, drunk-driving, and failure to obey traffic control devices (signs and lights) claim the lion's share. But all the effort goes to speed enforcement, because it's easy, stands up in court, and brings in loads of cash - close to $1 billion annually in Alberta alone.
Do something about it? Write cogent, lucid, non-whiny letters to the editor, debunking the premises of this law, and speed enforcement generally (lots of material in previous threads in the Canadian section, for example). Avoid defending speeding - even though studies show the vast majority of drivers do, making the legitimacy, efficacy, and necessity of the laws questionable. If 80% of us murdered or stole on a regular basis, we'd have a real problem, but when 80% of us speed on a regular basis, and the vast majority of accidents aren't primarily related to speed, one legitimately questions why so much policing resources are tasked to speed enforcement?
Find candidates who oppose trammeling rights based on dubious outcomes, supported by legislation that arose out of public and political furor based on false assumptions - both in the specific accident that led to this law, and the general premise that an epidemic of "street racing" is leading to widespread carnage. Vote anyone but Liberal, the authors of the street racing law in Ontario - although the NDP are hardly likely to become champions of less government intrusion into people's lives. I don't think NDP is a likely provincial election winner there anyway.
In BC, the Campbell Liberals (who essentially usurped the relatively far-right role from Social Credit in that province), came to power in part on a promise to do away with photo radar, which had become widespread in not just urban areas but on provincial highways. To their credit, they actually killed that cash cow almost immediately on taking office, so it can happen.
03-23-10, 10:25 PM
#27
That's the biggest problem right there!!! The worst part is, their stupidity is being catered to by the car companies! Why were ABS brakes and traction control invented....because people can't drive! Why do you need rain sensing wipers....because people are too useless to turn them on themselves. We need to bring back automobiles that require skill and knowledge to operate. This will either educate the idiots how to drive, or get them off of the roads all together.
Canada, especially Ontario, has one of the safest road infrastructure systems in the world. This is something they (the government I guess) are proud of and will do everything to ensure it remains.
Who teaches those driving schools? When I went to mine, all my pedophile instructor talked about was the hot girls at my highschool...
I went to Young Drivers and my instructor was very good actually. We didn’t do any skid pad tests or anything like that but… we did have an open parking lot at the Pickering Flea Market. He put the cones down and I asked if I could invite some friends for an AutoX session.
When I did my G test last October I took my 7 and he didn’t seem to believe that it was a car from 1988. It was freshly cleaned and had 69,000km on it at the time though lol. Sorry… What were we talking about again?
watch out for asian girls driving bmw's with HK licenses
It seems everyone has forgotten the fatalities caused in TO by street racers.I hopr none were your family members.
Going 50 over on the 401 is commonplace (or at least used to be, I bet going 45 over is now), I used to commute from windsor to brantford twice a week frequently going much faster than 50 over and it was rare that I was the fastest car on the road. Hell, even the flow of traffic in toronto sometimes is 140km/h - but going 10km/h faster than that can result in jail time? Where's the sense in that.
The worst of these offenders are tow truck drivers too! Anyone who has taken a grade 6 science class, or even watched a Bill Nye season or two, can tell you how difficult it is to stop that much weight from 150km/h! It’s crazy some of the stunts I’ve seen them pull on the highway.
03-24-10, 01:29 AM
#28
You went to Peter’s didn’t you…
I went to Young Drivers and my instructor was very good actually. We didn’t do any skid pad tests or anything like that but… we did have an open parking lot at the Pickering Flea Market. He put the cones down and I asked if I could invite some friends for an AutoX session.
When I did my G test last October I took my 7 and he didn’t seem to believe that it was a car from 1988. It was freshly cleaned and had 69,000km on it at the time though lol. Sorry… What were we talking about again?
I went to Young Drivers and my instructor was very good actually. We didn’t do any skid pad tests or anything like that but… we did have an open parking lot at the Pickering Flea Market. He put the cones down and I asked if I could invite some friends for an AutoX session.
When I did my G test last October I took my 7 and he didn’t seem to believe that it was a car from 1988. It was freshly cleaned and had 69,000km on it at the time though lol. Sorry… What were we talking about again?
.I also drove a Jetta into a wall because I thought my diesel Jetta could corner and drift like in Initial D, I'm not sure why I mentioned that
thewird
03-24-10, 08:16 AM
#31
I've always got the most enjoyment from the 7 accelerating in 2nd on the ramps and taking off in 3rd to pass on the highway and then slow back to normal highway speed . You can do this all day if you want without any trouble. To me , City streets are for city speed limits , no compromise.
Also reached 215 km/hr in the vert from London to Cambridge once on that long flat stretch .... the need to do that is now thankfully out of my system.
Also reached 215 km/hr in the vert from London to Cambridge once on that long flat stretch .... the need to do that is now thankfully out of my system.
03-24-10, 11:33 AM
#32
A couple of examples of potential "letters to the editor" material from the online responses to the National Post article that started this thread. They make good points, are to the point, and use sarcasm in an appropriately biting, not mean-spirited way:
Twenty years ago if you would have told me the authorities could seize your car right on the spot, and suspend your license, right there for going 30 mph over the speed limit. I would have said, you were crazy. Come on! What do you think we live in a 3rd world banana republic a fascist police state? Now I'm not so sure anymore. It's an upside down country now, where people who hate intolerant bigots, are they themselves called, intolerant bigots. Canada is changing.
I especially like the first example - they could have even added some emphasis to the last line - presumption of innocence until proven guilty is a foundational principal of British-derived legal systems such as our own, and something we all can grasp - we've heard it over and over again in school, and on TV. A speeder is not like a drunk - when you pull them over and issue a ticket, if you allow them to go on their way, they are not still impaired, they can choose to drive in a more reasonable/legal manner immediately - so why does their car need to be seized on the spot?
Julian Fantino and Dalton McGuinty, protecting us from little old ladies. Armed thugs occupying our own property. Not so much. The fact that Fantino and McGuinty need this sledge hammer of a law speaks to their inability to uphold the rule of law. There is a malaise in justice in this province. The growing reliance on reverse onus laws such as this (and most laws in this province require you to prove your innocence, when you are allowed to, not the other way around) to persecute the innocent while allowing things like Caledonia to occur should have us all questioning the competence of the leadership of this province. Note the last paragraph. She is presumed guilty. She may have a defence, that would justify the crime, but she cannot even question the evidence of her guilt. Kafka couldn't have written it better.
Twenty years ago if you would have told me the authorities could seize your car right on the spot, and suspend your license, right there for going 30 mph over the speed limit. I would have said, you were crazy. Come on! What do you think we live in a 3rd world banana republic a fascist police state? Now I'm not so sure anymore. It's an upside down country now, where people who hate intolerant bigots, are they themselves called, intolerant bigots. Canada is changing.
03-24-10, 02:36 PM
#33
I went to Young drivers too but I also passed the G1 test without a single question wrong by just reading the book I bought at the corner store twice over and realizing it was common sense for the most part
My brother is taking it now and I told him to do the same thing but he failed the first time. I guess he will have to read the book, but he is also not into cars like I am.
cs13b i demand pics of your car asap.
. Why do you need pics? It's at 98,000km now
03-25-10, 05:08 PM
#34
On the topic of road laws in Ontario, I have a story for you lol.. here goes:
When I had just gotten my G2 in fall/winter 2007, my dad was driving a demo 5-speed Mazda 6 3.0L fresh from Mazda Canada where the previous driver had installed the Mazdaspeed Exhaust. I felt like I was the **** driving that car around. Anyways one night I went out in this thing to take my girl to the movies (my car at the time was a 1990 Ford Taurus Wagon, sandy beige in colour lol). On my way to her house, I was driving north on Harwood which is a 4-lane road separated by a large median, and I was doing roughly 70-75 km/h on this 50-limit road. As I come up to the first intersection, I see a Highlander pull out into the median, and since it's not uncommon to see people pull out and pass the first two lanes then wait in the middle, I thought nothing of it. Next thing I knew the driver speeds up and tries to beat me across the intersection. I hit him directly in the rear passenger tire and the 6 was totalled beyond repair. As I got out swearing as loud as possible, and ready to fight this guy to the death, I realize it was a bunch of kids from my high school. There were 7 passengers total, and the 5 in the back seat weren't wearing seatbelts, so as I got out of my car I could already see 2 people running away from the wreck before the cops came.
The other driver was charged with failure to yield to traffic (or something like that) and failure to stop at a stop sign(or whatever that offense is called). He was given a $650 fine with 4 points. The police report said I was doing 60 so I guess the cop let me off with that one, even though I admitted I was speeding.
During that week at school, I was told by a friend of mine that the guys and girl in the truck had all just left the public school parking lot across the road from the crash, after smoking a few joints, so they were all high at the time this happened. The cop wouldn't have known this since there is no test,
He later went to court with me as a witness, and the prosecutors settled, so even though he had more than the legal amount of passengers, his passengers weren't wearing seatbelts, and he was baked while driving, he got away with a $200 fine and no points.
To this day, I know for a fact that he, and a few other guys who were in the truck still drive home drunk or high (or both) from parties and bars that we occasionally see each other at.
Something doesn't seem right about settling for no points and a pocket-change fine after something like that.
When I had just gotten my G2 in fall/winter 2007, my dad was driving a demo 5-speed Mazda 6 3.0L fresh from Mazda Canada where the previous driver had installed the Mazdaspeed Exhaust. I felt like I was the **** driving that car around
. Anyways one night I went out in this thing to take my girl to the movies (my car at the time was a 1990 Ford Taurus Wagon, sandy beige in colour lol). On my way to her house, I was driving north on Harwood which is a 4-lane road separated by a large median, and I was doing roughly 70-75 km/h on this 50-limit road. As I come up to the first intersection, I see a Highlander pull out into the median, and since it's not uncommon to see people pull out and pass the first two lanes then wait in the middle, I thought nothing of it. Next thing I knew the driver speeds up and tries to beat me across the intersection. I hit him directly in the rear passenger tire and the 6 was totalled beyond repair. As I got out swearing as loud as possible, and ready to fight this guy to the death, I realize it was a bunch of kids from my high school. There were 7 passengers total, and the 5 in the back seat weren't wearing seatbelts, so as I got out of my car I could already see 2 people running away from the wreck before the cops came. The other driver was charged with failure to yield to traffic (or something like that) and failure to stop at a stop sign(or whatever that offense is called). He was given a $650 fine with 4 points. The police report said I was doing 60 so I guess the cop let me off with that one, even though I admitted I was speeding.
During that week at school, I was told by a friend of mine that the guys and girl in the truck had all just left the public school parking lot across the road from the crash, after smoking a few joints, so they were all high at the time this happened. The cop wouldn't have known this since there is no test,
He later went to court with me as a witness, and the prosecutors settled, so even though he had more than the legal amount of passengers, his passengers weren't wearing seatbelts, and he was baked while driving, he got away with a $200 fine and no points.
To this day, I know for a fact that he, and a few other guys who were in the truck still drive home drunk or high (or both) from parties and bars that we occasionally see each other at.
Something doesn't seem right about settling for no points and a pocket-change fine after something like that.
03-26-10, 05:11 AM
#35
Very Hatefull.
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Am I the only one who gets depressed reading about **** like this?
Whenever I read about the injustice and intolerance, I think up ways around the stupid laws. That in itself is the major problem with them.
Whenever I read about the injustice and intolerance, I think up ways around the stupid laws. That in itself is the major problem with them.
03-26-10, 07:48 AM
#36
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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As they always say, the system isn't perfect.
It does depress me anytime I hear stories like this. Justice is never served.
I guess you gotta start believing in Karma. What goes around comes around.
It does depress me anytime I hear stories like this. Justice is never served.
I guess you gotta start believing in Karma. What goes around comes around.
03-26-10, 10:45 AM
#37
I've often thought that poor driving decisions and the desire for excessive speed would be curbed by the mandatory installation of a 6 inch spike onto the centre of the steering wheel. Fear of imminent impalement and death would work wonders. That and it would certainly add an element of darwinism to driving...
03-27-10, 08:54 AM
#40
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Lewis Hamilton got a Mercedes loaner impounded via Australia's similar law.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03...kless-driving/
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/03...kless-driving/
These laws are an inconvenience to the rich.
Poor working man gets choked by this over zealous law.
Too costly for the crime.
Just my nickels worth.
Ace IIB
03-27-10, 02:28 PM
#41
Honestly, between this bs, insurance rates in the GTA, and the congestion EVERYWHERE. It's actually worse in the suburbs! I'm really temped to just sell the car and sad as it is to say, let the system win. Sheep? sheep.
ps: yah right.
ps: yah right.
03-27-10, 03:41 PM
#42
That's why I usually avoid the GTA like the plague! At least there is still a glimmer of freedom here in the sticks where I live. The only problem is BS laws that are made specifically for urban areas like the GTA are being forced apon us as well, even though they are completely useless here. You have to have streets before street racing is a problem......
03-27-10, 04:02 PM
#43
That's why I usually avoid the GTA like the plague! At least there is still a glimmer of freedom here in the sticks where I live. The only problem is BS laws that are made specifically for urban areas like the GTA are being forced apon us as well, even though they are completely useless here. You have to have streets before street racing is a problem......
I travel back and forth from Toronto a lot, and my year off school consisted of daily trips, and I have never gotten a ticket in the GTA. Then, after I start school in Oshawa, I got three tickets in a matter of 6 months! BRUTAL!
The suburbs are def. worse than the city itself.
Buggy, in a small county/town like yours, isnt the sherriff your uncle? or brother? or something like that? I think that how it goes right? lol just kidding
03-27-10, 04:36 PM
#44
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The Gta blows I hate it here Traffic everyday from 7am till 9am then again at 4pm till 7pm sucks
I just park my car and take the bus to work now, at least it gives me time to Get my motor setup lol
I just park my car and take the bus to work now, at least it gives me time to Get my motor setup lol
03-28-10, 12:47 AM
#45
its all a scam...we have so many bad drivers that get nervous in the lighttest rain because no one is used to things like excessive traffic, complex roads etc...east to west north to south with a million stop signs...god knows how many cops on road....and low end speed limits...
is it just me or does it just not make sense that in europe...middle east etc...there is less accidents percentage based on people than canada?
its not enought gov't makes so much cash from by law tickets which pisses me off so much but now it's 10k one shot if you're goin 50 over?....hwy speed limit in UAE is 160...i wanna not pay taxes just so the people who make up **** like this dont get paid...but they always find a way to get their money
is it just me or does it just not make sense that in europe...middle east etc...there is less accidents percentage based on people than canada?
its not enought gov't makes so much cash from by law tickets which pisses me off so much but now it's 10k one shot if you're goin 50 over?....hwy speed limit in UAE is 160...i wanna not pay taxes just so the people who make up **** like this dont get paid...but they always find a way to get their money
03-28-10, 03:25 AM
#46
2 things are certain in life: death and taxes. Get over it guys, I started this thread just to see if anyone was as upset as me, clearly the consensus(sp?) is in.
From here on out, I mean, other than writing to our MP, is there anything we can do as a community? Maybe as a car community, not just 7club. Something productive and effficient, not riots, protests, and revolutions.
To be honest, I don't think there is, and here's why: If you guys ever frequent the lounge, there is a thread there somewhere about "fixies." "Fixies" are bicycles that have no gears or brakes! Like the kind you originally learn to ride on. Apparently it's a really popular trend on the west coast, and all these crazy couriers in NYC use them like mad. ANYWAYS! I see these bikes all around campus and downtown and whatnot, and everytime I see one, you know what I think??
"MAN THAT IS STUPID. WHAT KINDA MORON WOULD DO THIS??"
^and this is what politicians and the legal system think of people who mod their cars.
/rant^2
From here on out, I mean, other than writing to our MP, is there anything we can do as a community? Maybe as a car community, not just 7club. Something productive and effficient, not riots, protests, and revolutions.
To be honest, I don't think there is, and here's why: If you guys ever frequent the lounge, there is a thread there somewhere about "fixies." "Fixies" are bicycles that have no gears or brakes! Like the kind you originally learn to ride on. Apparently it's a really popular trend on the west coast, and all these crazy couriers in NYC use them like mad. ANYWAYS! I see these bikes all around campus and downtown and whatnot, and everytime I see one, you know what I think??
"MAN THAT IS STUPID. WHAT KINDA MORON WOULD DO THIS??"
^and this is what politicians and the legal system think of people who mod their cars.
/rant^2
03-28-10, 07:23 AM
#47
"MAN THAT IS STUPID. WHAT KINDA MORON WOULD DO THIS??"
^and this is what politicians and the legal system think of people who mod their cars.
^and this is what politicians and the legal system think of people who mod their cars.
03-28-10, 10:30 AM
#48
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That's the biggest problem right there!!! The worst part is, their stupidity is being catered to by the car companies! Why were ABS brakes and traction control invented....because people can't drive! Why do you need rain sensing wipers....because people are too useless to turn them on themselves. We need to bring back automobiles that require skill and knowledge to operate. This will either educate the idiots how to drive, or get them off of the roads all together.
Ninja edit: Maybe we should change how drivers education gets handled?
Last edited by JDMJester; 03-28-10 at 10:34 AM.
03-28-10, 11:17 AM
#50
I completely agree.. Not to mention the number of idiots who drive around at night with their DRL's on. Or those who consistently sit in your blind spots. Driving too slowly, that should also be a crime. I've noticed, Speeding isn't so bad when everyone else is doing it. On a highway, the norm is about 120km/h now. If you're doing 100km/h, you're more of a hazard than those doing 20 over the limit. people slow down and fly into other lanes to get out from behind you. Driving is all about being a team player and not standing out. Going too slow should be just as much of an offense as going too fast in my opinion.
Ninja edit: Maybe we should change how drivers education gets handled?
Ninja edit: Maybe we should change how drivers education gets handled?
thewird