I think it's time to do something.
03-22-10, 02:58 AM
#1
I think it's time to do something.
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2697902
^options are:
-try not to speed on the street (requires discipline)
-turn rx7 into track only car (too expensive)
-sell car and take bus (most logical)
-move out of Ontario (not feasible atm)
what do you guys think??
^options are:
-try not to speed on the street (requires discipline)
-turn rx7 into track only car (too expensive)
-sell car and take bus (most logical)
-move out of Ontario (not feasible atm)
what do you guys think??
03-22-10, 06:49 AM
#3
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Considering how much of a cop magnet my car is, I never go above 40 over the limit in it unless I'm absolutely sure there are no cops around.
I'm sure someone will be fighting this later on.
I'm sure someone will be fighting this later on.
03-22-10, 07:19 AM
#4
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That law has always been, and will always be BS.
There have been many comments written about this particular law. Unfortunately the people don't have a say in the matter. Even if we were to fight it, politicians always have a way of pushing things through.
All these guys ever think about is "who's looking out for #1?" While the rest of us have to live with their stupidity.
There have been many comments written about this particular law. Unfortunately the people don't have a say in the matter. Even if we were to fight it, politicians always have a way of pushing things through.
All these guys ever think about is "who's looking out for #1?" While the rest of us have to live with their stupidity.
03-22-10, 09:08 AM
#5
Just a money making scam. Most of the ppl who get this ticket just have every day normal cars, and aren't even racing. If they wanna make the roads safer, they need to be stricter with drunk drivers.
03-22-10, 09:14 AM
#6
I'd say if they want to make the roads more safe, they need better EDUCATION! The majority of people out there don't have a damn clue how to drive properly or maintain their vehicles properly. They just know how to get in and drive. When it comes to a panic situation their lack of knowledge about the vehicle and how to control it becomes very critical. Being in the automotive repair industry, some of the things I see is enough to scare you.
03-22-10, 10:18 AM
#7
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There was an old lady that beat it.
But then again that is what this law is, for some and not others.
It leaves the policeman to do the "judgeing"
I think it will modify in time.
-I usually dont speed./ I Track it
But then again that is what this law is, for some and not others.
It leaves the policeman to do the "judgeing"
I think it will modify in time.
-I usually dont speed./ I Track it
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03-22-10, 10:22 AM
#8
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Option A is your best bet. This law isn't going to go away, because not enough people are willing to give our government leaders the boot to show they aren't happy with their work. Unfortunately this also becomes the proverbial slippery slope. This goes through and in 5 years they'll lower the speed threshold for stunt driving to 30 over. We won't even have a say in it. Then there will be speed limiters on all private vehicles.
A little discipline will keep you safe. When I'm on the back roads I'll take it up to 130, but no higher. I can handle a speeding ticket, but a little adrenaline rush isn't worth having my car and licences seized.
A little discipline will keep you safe. When I'm on the back roads I'll take it up to 130, but no higher. I can handle a speeding ticket, but a little adrenaline rush isn't worth having my car and licences seized.
03-22-10, 10:24 AM
#9
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The problem is education and not enforcement. We can never enforce penalties to fix a problem. Most people don't murder others not because they are afraid to go to jail, but because they know that in most cases it is wrong. The same with traffic laws.
But the fact is that most people are just so unskilled and incompetent that they are horrible drivers and don't even care about it.
My problem with the law is not about the 50 over part. My issue is with the "stunting" part that gives an officer wide discretion as to what stunting means. The fines and other penalties are way too large if one was to, say, spin their tires at a green light. An officer having a bad day could easily say "stunting" and then BAM! Vehicle impoundment, major finds, stupid high insurance premiums and a suspended license. This is not right.
Lets face it; it is not hard at all to stay under 50KM/H over the speed limit. Don't give me the BS about needing to drive that fast on the 401, because I've been commuting on the 401 for 15 years and almost no one is driving that fast even in the left lane. We all like to punch the throttle now and again but why does one need to go over 150 KM/H? I'm not saying I have not done it on the street, but certainly not often. And not because of some law that says I shouldn't, but because I know it is dangerous and wrong (wrong in the sense that it is unpredictable to other drivers). I'm also not saying that speeding that much justifies the penalty now available, but excessive speed has always been on the books as an offense that could result in loss of license/vehicle.
But the fact is that most people are just so unskilled and incompetent that they are horrible drivers and don't even care about it.
My problem with the law is not about the 50 over part. My issue is with the "stunting" part that gives an officer wide discretion as to what stunting means. The fines and other penalties are way too large if one was to, say, spin their tires at a green light. An officer having a bad day could easily say "stunting" and then BAM! Vehicle impoundment, major finds, stupid high insurance premiums and a suspended license. This is not right.
Lets face it; it is not hard at all to stay under 50KM/H over the speed limit. Don't give me the BS about needing to drive that fast on the 401, because I've been commuting on the 401 for 15 years and almost no one is driving that fast even in the left lane. We all like to punch the throttle now and again but why does one need to go over 150 KM/H? I'm not saying I have not done it on the street, but certainly not often. And not because of some law that says I shouldn't, but because I know it is dangerous and wrong (wrong in the sense that it is unpredictable to other drivers). I'm also not saying that speeding that much justifies the penalty now available, but excessive speed has always been on the books as an offense that could result in loss of license/vehicle.
03-22-10, 10:30 AM
#10
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^ Good point. 50 over in a 50 is double the speed limit, which is already an automatic suspension and classified as reckless driving. Now it's racing as well.
Take it to the track folks, it's more fun there anyway.
Take it to the track folks, it's more fun there anyway.
03-22-10, 11:34 AM
#11
Chad, read the article, it IS about the Grandmother's case. Court of Appeal overruled it and now made it a strict liability offence, which means you get due diligence in court to present a defense as to why you were speeding. Ironic part of this is, running from the police is still a absolute liability. That makes no sense to me; and all the people I talk to about this that are currently in law school tell me it's laws like this that discredit the entire justice system.
theWird, when you have a government by the people and for the people then maybe you can do something. Right now politricks is so corrupt it's all about who has whose hands in someone's pockets.
Aaron, I agree with you completely. My issue is just that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Let me put this into perspective.
This law is like saying if an officer saw someone who LOOKED like they were about to go murder someone, and that person dropped a knife while walking around, then the police should arrest him, put him in jail for a week, charge him with the crime he hasn't committed yet, then tell him he can fight it in court months later.
^my analogy sort of sucks, sorry. What I mean to say is this: the very fear of the penalties associated with this act are enough to keep me from wanting to drive at all. If I get booked for this, regardless of why, it pretty much already has a long lasting damaging effect:
-$700 impound fees at least
-$300 tow
-whatever it costs for me not be able to drive for a week, still have to get around, no ttc in my area
- + a thousands on a lawyer to fight the charge
- not to mention stress, insurance, being stuck on the side of the road waiting for someone to pick u up or a cab to come, overall these penalties are terrible.
/rant
theWird, when you have a government by the people and for the people then maybe you can do something. Right now politricks is so corrupt it's all about who has whose hands in someone's pockets.
Aaron, I agree with you completely. My issue is just that the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Let me put this into perspective.
This law is like saying if an officer saw someone who LOOKED like they were about to go murder someone, and that person dropped a knife while walking around, then the police should arrest him, put him in jail for a week, charge him with the crime he hasn't committed yet, then tell him he can fight it in court months later.
^my analogy sort of sucks, sorry. What I mean to say is this: the very fear of the penalties associated with this act are enough to keep me from wanting to drive at all. If I get booked for this, regardless of why, it pretty much already has a long lasting damaging effect:
-$700 impound fees at least
-$300 tow
-whatever it costs for me not be able to drive for a week, still have to get around, no ttc in my area
- + a thousands on a lawyer to fight the charge
- not to mention stress, insurance, being stuck on the side of the road waiting for someone to pick u up or a cab to come, overall these penalties are terrible.
/rant
03-22-10, 04:00 PM
#14
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being a prelaw student it is very interesting to see this law go through the motions .... the most interesting part is that they modified the charge from racing to stunting because the old lady won the court decision because the definition of racing requires two people but stunting can be done by an individual also due diligence or why you were speeding is going to have a huge effect on convictions because it is the judges judgement on what is an acceptable reason like speeding to pass another car there is precident and any one charged with it can use that precedent
03-22-10, 08:02 PM
#15
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There were 2 collisions in the GTA over the weekend. In one case people were "ejected" from the vehicle and seriously injured. In the other, a Mercedes jeepy-thing rolled on its side on Bloor St (really!) and an occupant was injured by other passengers falling on her.
Obviously these people were not wearing seat belts. The media suggested in at least one that "speed and alcohol" were factors. But apparently stupidity was not a factor.
In Canada ~ 35% of fatalities were not wearing seat belts. Also, according to stats Canada, 76% admit to speeding (which means essentially every one "speeds") yet there is only 6 fatalities per BILLION passenger miles. One could conclude that "speeding" and safety are virtually unrelated. Don't forget how many speed limits are set by political pressure and not traffic engineers.
The police's concentration on speed enforcement means that A) They have no understanding of the underlying cause of collisions (driver error) or B) they don't care and just want to collect fines.
How many of you have written to your MPP or the minister of transport? It doesn't take much more effort that writing here. People can get things changed...
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/m...s.do?locale=en
Obviously these people were not wearing seat belts. The media suggested in at least one that "speed and alcohol" were factors. But apparently stupidity was not a factor.
In Canada ~ 35% of fatalities were not wearing seat belts. Also, according to stats Canada, 76% admit to speeding (which means essentially every one "speeds") yet there is only 6 fatalities per BILLION passenger miles. One could conclude that "speeding" and safety are virtually unrelated. Don't forget how many speed limits are set by political pressure and not traffic engineers.
The police's concentration on speed enforcement means that A) They have no understanding of the underlying cause of collisions (driver error) or B) they don't care and just want to collect fines.
How many of you have written to your MPP or the minister of transport? It doesn't take much more effort that writing here. People can get things changed...
http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/m...s.do?locale=en
Last edited by DynoDragon; 03-22-10 at 08:07 PM. Reason: additional thought
03-22-10, 08:23 PM
#16
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The police's concentration on speed enforcement means that A) They have no understanding of the underlying cause of collisions (driver error) or B) they don't care and just want to collect fines.
peace officer = one who upholds and enforces the law
mind u the lines get blurrier every day
03-23-10, 08:19 AM
#17
apparently stupidity was not a factor
03-23-10, 10:08 AM
#18
Canada, especially Ontario, has one of the safest road infrastructure systems in the world. This is something they (the government I guess) are proud of and will do everything to ensure it remains.
Everything short of tightening up license laws. My sister walked in to get her g1 a few months back, she failed the test, got back in line, retook the same test 30 minutes later, and oh big surprise! She passed! Now thankfully, my family won't let her drive a thing until she goes to driving school. But let's face it? Who teaches those driving schools? When I went to mine, all my pedophile instructor talked about was the hot girls at my highschool...
We need to take a page from Finland. You can't get your license until you are 18, even then, it takes three years to acquire a full license. A real driving school (cost $4000, not $400) is mandatory and they teach you EVERYTHING. It's basically an intro-to-rally school. This is why Finland has the highest number of world-class drivers per capita. They also have a high suicide rate, topics unrelated I presume.
Education > all else, but seriously I have been thinking about it, and there is really not many excuses for going 50 over, so even though the punishments are outrageous, the crime itself is a stupid one to be committing. Just do the speed limit, get to where you need to be safely, watch out for asian girls driving bmw's with HK licenses, and if you wanna go fast, take it to the track.
ps: I love abs.
Everything short of tightening up license laws. My sister walked in to get her g1 a few months back, she failed the test, got back in line, retook the same test 30 minutes later, and oh big surprise! She passed! Now thankfully, my family won't let her drive a thing until she goes to driving school. But let's face it? Who teaches those driving schools? When I went to mine, all my pedophile instructor talked about was the hot girls at my highschool...
We need to take a page from Finland. You can't get your license until you are 18, even then, it takes three years to acquire a full license. A real driving school (cost $4000, not $400) is mandatory and they teach you EVERYTHING. It's basically an intro-to-rally school. This is why Finland has the highest number of world-class drivers per capita. They also have a high suicide rate, topics unrelated I presume.
Education > all else, but seriously I have been thinking about it, and there is really not many excuses for going 50 over, so even though the punishments are outrageous, the crime itself is a stupid one to be committing. Just do the speed limit, get to where you need to be safely, watch out for asian girls driving bmw's with HK licenses, and if you wanna go fast, take it to the track.
ps: I love abs.
03-23-10, 10:20 AM
#19
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We need to take a page from Finland. You can't get your license until you are 18, even then, it takes three years to acquire a full license. A real driving school (cost $4000, not $400) is mandatory and they teach you EVERYTHING. It's basically an intro-to-rally school. This is why Finland has the highest number of world-class drivers per capita. They also have a high suicide rate, topics unrelated I presume.
But yeah, I agree.
Yearly retesting in a driving simulator with at least one unexpected situation. Fail, and you're busted down to G2. Fail again, and you're starting over from G1.
Then make the penalty for a suspended/expired/lack-of license mandatory 5 year jail. I said earlier you can't fix things with enforcement, but I just want these douches off the road.
03-23-10, 08:54 PM
#23
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No one here is condoning street racing. It's stupid and dangerous, we know that. What we are arguing against is the fact that street racing is not so much of a problem that an arbitrary law is required to control it. As noted in my previous post they are not going about solving any problems in the right manner. They are only trying to give the impression they are doing something, when in actual fact it is nothing more than a band-aid. The only way to properly improve the ability of our provinces drivers is through better education and training. Fining people does not teach them what they did was wrong, it only makes them more careful about getting caught and very few people will seek better driver training of their own accord.
03-23-10, 09:17 PM
#24
Compared to the hundreds of fatalities caused by cabbies and buses, but nobody's calling for them to be banned!
Seriously this law is ridiculous. Street racing is a minuscule problem and I bet more people choke to death on their BLT bagels on the way to work each year than die from street racing or people doing any of the other things under the stunting laws.
Going 50 over on the 401 is commonplace (or at least used to be, I bet going 45 over is now), I used to commute from windsor to brantford twice a week frequently going much faster than 50 over and it was rare that I was the fastest car on the road. Hell, even the flow of traffic in toronto sometimes is 140km/h - but going 10km/h faster than that can result in jail time? Where's the sense in that.