I was wondering how much an engine swap from a 85 GS 12a to a 93 FD 13b would be?

 

motor 1500 - 2000
Might be able to get tranny with it otherwise 300 - 500
Wireing harness prob arount 200
drive shaft 125
Rear end w/ half shafts 500-700
ecu around 100 - 150
Variouse others 1000 - 1500 (intercooler, oil lines, starter, etc etc)
do it yourself saves you a lot
labor 2500 - 4k

I have seen it done for just shy of 10k

You have to understand that EVERYTHING is different, its not just a str8 forward swap and in alot of cases not worth the money, not always...... but most cases.

Just my 0.02

 

I see your from Barrie, you should give Brent a call at BSC Motorsports. He did a great job on my brothers T2 swap in his 82fb. I'll see if I can find his number for you. You might be able to find his information in the canadian vendors section aswell.

 

Why would you need the rear end and half-shafts? That makes no sense.

You don't necessarily need the tranny, either, though a TII tranny (plus starter and modded driveshaft) is recommended if you're making more than 300 WHP. To use a stock tranny you need a 215/225mm light flywheel and counterweight, which you may want anyway.

The ECU and wiring harness should be cheap, and the wiring harness might come with the motor. You'll also need a 12A/GSL-SE front cover, GSL-SE oil pan, exhaust, fuel system upgrades, an intercooler and related hardware, a method to mount the 13B in a 12A chassis (there are several options), upgraded alternator and radiator, and gauges and so forth. Do it yourself so that there're no labor costs (other than probably welding up the exhaust), because those will kill you in a hurry.

 

a microtech LT-8 or LT-10 is the batter way to go, the stock FD ECU will work but you will run into problems with the OMP and CAS, you cant use a stock FD CAS or OMP when you use the GSL-SE or 12A front cover. when using a microtech you will use a stock 2nd Gen CAS and as for an OMP you just use a block off on the front cover and run premix in you gas.

the other thing you will need to do is mod the from cover with a oil line retune line from the turbos to feel the oil back into the motor, you will also need a front mount oil cooler because your FB didnt come with one stock (83-85)

someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I dont think you can use the stock FD water pump ether with a 12A and GSL-SE front cover. most people I know use a modded TII water pump.

 

Hmm, so you can't use an FD CAS in an earlier front cover? That complicates things. If it's possible to have the stock ECU control fuel only, you could run the ignition through a distributor. But it'd be better to get a standalone anyway.

The 12A/GSL-SE OMP is the same as the S4 OMP internally, I believe. Should flow enough if you don't want to premix. The 12A version has only two outlets, so just have them go to the rotor housing oil injectors and block off the others, then wire it open to the 9 o'clock position.

 

I found a 13b from a 3rd gen with the ecu for 1700 in pretty good shape but its starting to sound like im better off doing a rebuild on my motor.

 

and it has the tranny too all for 1700

 

its always good to rebuild a motor before you do a swap like this, its saves time later on

 

do you know if he does rebuilds?

 

What are your goals for this swap? HP goals? You may be able to get what your want out of a TII motor, which would be an easier, and cheaper swap.

 

He should be able to do a rebuild for you. Give him a call, his number is 705-431-2644. or you can email him, his email address is brent@bscmotorsports.ca

 

Best bet for high horsepower is a TII swap hands down. When it's all said and done an REW swap will cost you easily twice what a TII will. At least. TII has also been covered to death so there's a library of information, tips and tricks, etc. Ask yourself if you want to have a high powered car roaming the streets, or a car sitting in the shop while you work out the bugs.

You can also just turbo your 12A. That's also been done a number of times before and you can put the $1700 towards rebuilding and porting the 12A. Or if the 12A doesn't need a rebuild yet, use the money for turbo parts and get it up and running by spring. Guys using TII turbos on 12A's are seeing close to 300 whp. That's plenty in a lightweight like an FB.

One of the first things I've noticed a lot of from newer members is questions regarding engine swaps before they have even had the car for an appreciable amount of time. I think the reason is the idea that since the FD has a 13B, that must be the engine to have. The 12A is a great engine, very reliable (I'm not saying the 13B isn't) and can easily make enough horsepower N/A or turbo to make it an exciting and fun car to drive. Using the engine you have instead of jumping right into a swap will save you tons of money and headaches in the end and you'll gain an appreciation for the engine your car was designed for.

 

This thread sure came at the right time. I am racing an FB at Mosport in the GT Sprints class in 2010 and what is in the car is a stock 12a with a Sterling modified carb (not the full 465 cfm one) a RB full race header to a 3" straight back exhaust. This car was a Florida IT7 race car and could only be modified to a certain extent.

I too am at the point of deciding whether to swap in a TII or mod the 12a........the problem I see is that the parts for 12a's are getting harder to find and that's one big reason to go to the 13b.

thoughts anyone.....????

 

Steve is that you? Convert to electric and cut it into a truck.

Kidding, 13B p-port, holly carbed. Best.

 

if your rules allow it, include an FC front subframe in your upgrade, you need to do some mods for the struts but not anything overly complex. track lenght is slightly increased track width is also increased by ~22mm/side. I've got one here if you'd like to see the stance.

 

It's definitely worth asking what your power goals are and intended use for the car first.

 

There are still enough rebuildable 12A cores out there that you can probably find one to build and port. Unfortunately though, there are no more parts being made by Mazda, so we are SOL for new factory parts. Aside from that anything else you may need can be fabricated by you or someone else. For quick power, the easiest route is a TII swap, but the 12A can be just as competitive and if your a good shopper it won't cost much more, if at all. The nice thing about the 12A is you don't have to screw with stand alone ECU's, or adding fuel injection components.

I have been considering a 12A/13B hybrid using the 13B rotating assembly and housings with my end plates and front cover. This will give me lots of material for porting as well as more displacement. It will also make replacement parts easier to come by should I pop that motor too. The only problem is finding an intake manifold from a 4-port carbed 13B and then replacing my RB header.

 

Ya Quinn....it's me!!

I have the same concerns about going turbo with all the electronics etc.....

I would prefer a simple engine and carb set up if the cost is the same or less. There is a guy who I race with, he has an '86 Carolla GTS with a 13b street port and webers, and because his car is so light he is very fast!!! AND reliable!!!

That is what I am after!!

 

Thank you guys for all of the information this has opened my eyes up on what I want to do

 

And what is that? Share your plan, man.

 

I have a 13b stock rx4 intake

 

I am going to just go with a motor rebuild with an aggressive street port on my 12a its probably going to save me a lot of time and money as well

 

Good plan. Save the boost headaches for after you have owned the car for a while, and have it thoroughly sorted out. NA power is lots of fun too. No time spent waiting for boost to kick in. Although the feeling of boost is a great feeling, there is way more involved with it, and like that cute sweetheart that works at the mall, it's best to start out slow.

Your fast becoming my new best friend. First a glass sunroof, and now this. How much would you like for it? I can probably pick it up in about 2 weeks or so, whenever I get out there again. Let me know, I definitely want it.

 

That setup will be the best in terms of alot of things.

cost, reliability, fun factor.

The 13b rew setup is one that everyone wants. but once you factor in cost you are better of buying a FD ( atleast with low prices people are offering there great condition RX7s here in the forum ).

If you really want to go boost. the FC motor is much simpler with a stand alone ecu.

Megasquirt if you want to save lots of money, I would recomend Haltech or something along those lines.

Last FB with a T2 swap total bill was around $ 3500 and that was installation and parts.
He dynoed 220 hp to teh wheels at 10 psi. Very nice setup.

It can definilty be done for less also , if your willing to do all the work as stated above.

I use to say bah FBs, but then got in a street ported 12a FB and that put a nice smile on my face