01Racing

Self explanitory

23Racer

Yep, lazy. Only was pulling 11,000 rpm consistently and making very close to 280 whp on a Mustang dyno........

Too bad you still don't own it.

Eric

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm.. This really intrigues me because how was my stock fd able to beat the car on the straight of TMP twice? I also need to mention that my rears were practically bald and I was running 10psi with a revlimtier of 6800 due to me forgetting the handheld that day. I also did not get a chance to do any other work other than new pads and fluids. If that car was making around 280ish then perhaps I will just refresh my current engine and rebuild the turbo and work on aero and stability for next season.

I do not mean to offend or anything, its just that I am really surprised that I was able to keep up with it!

Also the owner of the 20b apparently got a 1500 deposit so I am staying 2 rotor unless he changes his mind.

On the side note, does anyone know the exact differences with the stock twins vs BNR stage 2 vs BNR stage 3? I mean spool times, where is the peak psi?, and is the sequential system able to work on the BNR's?

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Jay, don't worry about it. Some people just have a hard on for the car, its ok. It's the internet, people believe what they want to believe.

BNR only makes the stage 3 now. If you look at the logs, its slightly laggier then stock but driving it, you do not feel any additional lag. The benefit of the BNR's is you can run more boost without them blowing up. I typically tune them to 16-17 psi. It makes a little more power but not much. Yes, they work sequentially like factory.

thewird

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

Are they worth the price for the additional psi?

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

I had them, and there was a noticeable difference when running 12psi on stock vs 17 on bnr. My but dyno couldn't pick up any lag but the top end was better.

If I remember I would lose some psi on the top end. So while I hit 17psi I was down to 15ish at red line. Fun setup I really liked them.

HiWire

How do the '99-'02 turbos compare? They're pretty expensive, but it sounds like they don't have any lag problems.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Personally, I don't think so. I think they are more for people who really want to keep the car stockish and don't want much more HP.

Don't misunderstand, the "lag" is not something you feel at all. The turbo's honestly feel like the stock ones until you raise the boost. The 99 turbo's do spool noticeably quicker but do not offer any additional power over the 93's.

Personally, I think the BNR's are a waste of money in this day and age. They're really just to keep the car "stock" with a touch extra HP. Going single is the only way to go imo.

thewird

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

^True

If you want the stock like drive with more kick get BNR and raise the boost. If you want even more power go single. This changes the way the car responds because of the lag but will give it much more top end.

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

That is what I am afraid of. If I were to go single, I would need to find a turbo that has very minimal lag and spools fairly quickly. I have 99 spec twins on my silver FD and they do seem a bit more responsive but and to what you guys are saying, I would lose top end power which is a huge downside with the BNR's.

now I need to be honest here as I do not want to screw up in the long road. Seeing that I do have a good knowledge of the sequential twins, I am starting to learn more about how the single turbos work on rotaries as I have never driven a tii before unless a non sequential system is like that. So my question is, would a T62-1 be the best next step? If it is, would anyone recommend a ball bearing version of the T62-1 or Borg Wager like the ones in the vendors section here be better.

I included a link of the T62-1 I was referring to, I just went around doing some research and I am a bit concerned as what if this turbo is spools too late? I am not looking for a "dragging" turbo more like a turbo suited for short-medium track circuits and stuff. Guys bear with me as single turbos on rotaries are sort of like sorcery to me I have done a turbo upgrade on a MK4 gti and a msp6 before but I try not to apply too much "piston theory" to rotaries if you know what I mean.

93 Mazda RX7 Single Turbo KIT FD3S RX 7 "T62 1 Turbonetics" RHD OR LHD | eBay

thewird

iTrader: (8)

That turbo kit is lazy. Just get a 35r kit with a proper tubular manifold built by one of the vendors if your worried about response. Either A-Spec or Turblown. Comparing a Tii isn't the same. You won't miss the twins, trust me.

thewird

FD_virus85

iTrader: (10)

So i tried new gt28 BNR stage 3 (non seq) this year with 2 different type of seals (carbon) and new seals /2 sets testing out here and there comparing with 12 other guys in U.S who had older bnr 3 twines and just replace to newer ones.

Before my single turbo comes I'll let you test my New stage 3 @ 18.6 psi with (v mount) < much better response/heat , butterfly flap removed, no highflow cat but straight pipe,Cooling mist water/meth and let you drive around with some built r35,Ess supercharged v8 m3's and some built cars

Since i went TDX61R dual ball bearing turbo+ Turblown billet compressor wheel, i wont miss the twines too much but New bnr 3 GT28 with v mount,water meth is another way to go

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

Your talking to me? You would actually let me test it out? If so that would really help me decide! I am glad to hear that you completed your engine as I sorta recall that the elbow was the last thing you needed

Also, seeing that I will rebuild the engine regardless now this winter, it is said that the gt35r is a "bolt on" to a stock engine. I know it is a stupid question to ask but by porting the motor (lets say streetport) what kind of power would I be looking at? What if porting the engine increases the "lag time" of the turbo like what happens to a set of stock twins. This may sound unreal but the first time I went to TMP was that sigma day and ran a sad a terrible 1:41 around the track. After getting proper tires and and playing with the datalogit and pfc, I managed to get my time down to 1:26 that day when I went up with Ken and the Stage Four crew.

I also need to mention that I found a way to practically make the twins spool at 1000 which then I adjusted my idle to 1000 for the day to keep it spooled. I did not even have transition lag that day and ran 14 psi that day. I wish I could upload the map but I left the pfc and datalogit in Guyana. Over there, I decided to make that current map my base map to which after adjusting to the lower altitude, I was also boosting at 1000 again. I have not really tested the true upper power of that tune due to me never going past the 7000 limit as I have not been able to use the wideband to see if it leans out anywhere past there.

I know that it is practically impossible to get a single turbo to spool like the twins at 1000-1500 and if I were to get close to that spool zone I would not have the power like what I wanted at the top end. I know I jump around when it comes to question time but I just have so many ideas but need to filter out the good ones and bad ones into a box.

01Racing

I really shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with knowing that the conversation is dealing with street cars not race cars. I will see if I can explain what Eric and I are talking about. When you set up a serious race car, you set it up for the track that you mainly run at. If you have lots of money you can afford to have different gears, tranny's shocks etc or what are called "packages"to make it work anywhere. We don't have that budget. When my old car was running at Mosport with the Semi Race tranny in it (2007-2009), we would hit 9500RPM just before we would lift for turn 8. That represented 142 mph. We shifted 12 times per lap. I never did run the car at TMP with that gearbox, it never would have been out of 2nd gear and most of the corners are too slow for 1st gear (ration in 1st was 2.0:1) With a Tranny out of a turbo FB the entry into 8 at Mosport was 8400rpm which was about 125mph a dramatic reduction of gearing and speed. That difference translated to about 3 seconds per lap! The car at TMP with the new owner and wrong gearing was slower than molasses which is why they never went back with it. It is always out of the power band (7500-10000rpm) so it essentially is making about 130hp at 5-6000rpm. Again the reason most rotary race cars are n/a including the SpeedSource RX8's etc is simply for longevity and reliability, remember the car that won Lemans was a 4-rotor N/A rotary. I won't post any more on the threads, I have moved back to easy and cheap horsepower that will run for years and easily make 375 RWHP. Good luck with whatever you build, just remember one thing that some of us old guys spent a lot of time and money to learn..............a street car will never be a good race car and a race car is a lousy street car lol.

Double_J

iTrader: (28)

Non sequential is not that great. You often will get more lag than a single turbo, but without the added benefits of the added power. I have only drove one non sequential car and maybe it was just a bad day but I would never want non sequential based on that experience.

thewird

iTrader: (8)

Non-sequential twins is just silly. You get the lag (think 4,000+ RPM) of a huge turbo with no extra power.

thewird

sctRota

iTrader: (2)

Alan I did not mean to offend you in any way. I did not know that your old car only ran at mosport and I never knew that it never went to TMP before. You are right about the gearing tho, it probably was not the correct setup for TMP but should be perfect for the mosport circuit.

If I did offend you in any way, I apologize for it as it is a different owner and driver and I now think engine and I guess that is why it is always good to build your own car like you did and that way you are able to fully understand your car.


Anyways, I will begin looking into going single sometime this winter only after I pull the engine to see what I need.

01Racing

I'm not really offended. I just get frustrated when people are closed minded and don't accept that someone else might have a valid point. For example putting the proper gearing in a vehicle can net the same result as adding 50-75 hp to an engine and sometimes its a whole lot cheaper to do. Also by being able to run lower boost in a turbo application or rev lower in an n/a application you can add a lot of longevity to an engine and driveline. If you listen to any really fast car change gears be it F1, V8 Supercar, drag racing Grand Am, ALMS and even our regional racing series you will notice a minimum rpm drop between each gear. That keeps the car right in its power band, creates less shock between gears and of course much better acceleration. Sometimes swapping rear gears between model and transmissions you can get a much better package with very little cost. An easy one for a n/a rotary is using the 2nd gen Miata 5 spd trans. All you have to do is change the input shaft and it has was better ratio's that the stock FB/FC box. As you will see below, if I had added 50hp I still would not have had the same result as changing the gearing.

Example of my old RX7, remember this is the same engine, same weight, same tires etc. The only difference is the tranny. **5th gear is never used so no ration provided

Semi race 4spd box 1st 2.0 2nd 1.57 3rd 1.27 4th 1.1 = 1:36.5 lap times
Miata conv box 1st 3.13 2nd 1.83 3rd 1.30 4th 1.1 = 1:37.8 " "
FC Turbo box 1st 3.48 2nd 2.01 3rd 1.39 4th 1.1 = 1:39.0

As you can see with the Turbo box your 2nd to 3rd shift would almost be like making a 1st to 3rd shift in a properly geared box. Also you will notice that the race box 1st gear is almost like 2nd in all other tranny's!

01Racing

FYI this a great chart to have:

Transmission

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Some people think not having cup holders isn't streetable.

Streetable doesn't mean anything. Ask yourself what are "practical results".

Race cars make awesome street cars! The personality... The drama...

4.53 final drive to get out of the hole faster than the 3.90 guy, those are practical results to me. The 3.90 guy loves his highway fuel economy however. We both call it streetable, so who is right?

Alak

iTrader: (9)

To some people - street-able is it has lights, indicators and a licence plate. I've seen some pretty racey 'street' cars in my younger years, including some of my own cars.

HiWire

A freak on the streets and alcohol injection for the heats.

01Racing

Your idea of a race car and ours is a little different lol. You can't run a P.Port that idles at 2200rpm and will foul the spark plugs if left at low rpm or idle for any period of time, has no emission equipment, no interior other than a drivers seat, no factory seat belts, no headlights, no heater, no side windows, lexan front and rear windows and a 12+point roll cage in it on the street.

Well you could for about 5 minutes but the police and citizens don't think its very funny or legal.

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

I never said anything about following the rules, but I guess you're probably right.

Only people that own race cars have any idea what it's like to own a race car.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Although I don't disagree with you, as being older I'm much more of a refined car kinda guy. If you have a chance to visit alberta in the summer, you will see some people really like to push the limits of what's streetable.