CODE BLUE 2

Gary...
It made 100% big time difference going EFI/ECU over carb, but extreamly difficult to get the thing tuned right. After a few years of frustrating times, I think finally the car is tuned right and ready again for a Dyno. The most I have made was 211, but thinking maybe about 240 this time around. I have a 4 port turbo housings and rotors with an aggressive street port/exhaust.

I have had many problems with the Camden with heating issues, Fuel issues, and tuning issues. I have also gone through a couple motors, I believe because of the Supercharger.

I think I finally have all the heat issues and fuel problems figured out. Its all about cooling that blower down. What kind of fan are you running on your FB? Do you have an e-fan?. Do you have a header and if so have you heat wrapped it? Right now Gary Brooks is working on a cooling system for the Camden Supercharger....sorta a intercooler. For my next mod Im going to go water mist to help. I agree that Camden doesnt tell people about all the problems and heat issues that they face when they purchase the blower.

Im willing to help you out with some of your issues through pms or aim. Gary Brooks had sent me a website on some other options that are extreamly cheap to mod into the engine bay of my car. I will pm you with that website.

I also have a gsl se turbo. I love the car, but with the supercharger there are no words to describe how much more fun I have in it.

Heres kinda a stupid vid of this weekends tune....a small burn out. But you can at least hear what the blower setup sounds like.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Picture4169

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I have to agree that the fall-back of the blower is heat. That 7inch blower is good for a street port 13B air-wise I think. Theres tons he could do to approach 300HP, but what happens to driveability and economy?


Idea example: The supercharger kit for my Mazda Miata (provided by Flyin' Miata) running 6PSI unintercooled gets 190WHP (thats with all the basic computer bells and whistes). With an intercooler it gets 215WHP with 2 more PSI as well. With Larger injectors and the EMS it gets around 240+ (thats an unofficial number). They said without the intercooler at 8PSI there was too much detonation, even with 100 octane. That intercooler made all the difference.

I know the Miata isnt the best comparison, but The briliant thing is the supercharger is setup the same way as a camden (after the throttle body) and it uses an Eaton MP62 4th Gen Charger. The intake manifold that it sits on has an IN and an OUT for a FMIC. If someone could fashion one for the camden manifold, that would be wicked. Only problem would be that it would mix the A/F through the intercooler. And Idea of course.


I'd also like to point out that 176HP was achived by camden on an otherwise stock S4 high comp motor.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Did you buy IoTuS's car?

rx7_turbo2

I also think and intercooler would help a great deal. For engine reliability anyways, extra power? not convinced of that for the reasons Max has stated. I keep coming back to the same question though, if you have to do fuel mods and exhuast mods, and intercooler etc why not just go turbo in the begining? Less lag? Sure but less power, that's what it keeps coming back to for me. I guess if you really want to be different, but other than that I just can't justify it.

Chris Ng

BLah blah blah blah..

All this these excuses why the car didn't live up to it's "claimed" potential, all this technical mumbo jumbo from guys who have no idea how to plumb a fuel system correctly... much less have it shut off without killing the igniton by pulling plug wires...

yay

now

iTrader: (1)

its the 6 port motor.
I built a 6 port for my rx2 with the s/c it ran ok but didn't seem to make as much power
as i expected.
so this year i built a TII 4 port motor with turbo tbc low comp rotors, ceramic seals,
very minor porting, and it is making more power and runs much smoother boosting to only 7 lbs
I hope to get my hands on a smaller pulley to make more boost, but as it is I am quite happy.
I would say at 7 lbs it is about equal to a stock TII.
matt

CODE BLUE 2

Yes I did. IoTuS's car is much more reliable than my Supercharged car.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Wow, I can't believe he sold it. He loved that thing.
Did you fix the tuning issues?

Does it make power now?

Damn, he was going to sell me his taillights, for a swap and some cash.

Congrats on a 2nd nice car.

CODE BLUE 2

As for reliability...NOPE its not. As for driveability and economy its a car you cant take on a long trip.

Camden had stated when I first bought my Supercharger that it would produce 271hp. That is incorrect. Yes easy to get to 176.

Syritis

iTrader: (2)

The Reason i was given when my TII dyno surprized me with low numbers was simply calgary's altitude. which is very conciderable when 1/4 miles times are expected to gain a second. not much u can do about that. but i wouldn't mind driving to vancouver to see how the numbers compare. if i ever get my car running of course.

CODE BLUE 2

Thanks...
It seems to have a lot of pep to it. After putting the inner cooler on it, Im sure it made a huge difference. The thing never gets hot, though it sucks the gas with the weber on it. Gotta love those webers though....they are a lot of fun.

Im very honored to have Jeoffs car...I know he loved his car. Ive done a few things to it. It needs some work, but thats the plan for one of my fall/winter projects, is fixing all the problems it has.

Actually, it did get a little tune after my Supercharged car got tuned. Webers are so touchy.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

My buddy races his car daily all over town for the last 5 years. I can garuntee hes put WELL over 150,000kms on his 12A Supercharger setup. His car is so old, his supercharger looks like it was put together with spare parts. Starts every morning. Runs good. Never failed. Had 2 oil leaks in its time (wear and tear on the lines). Hits 10PSI all day. I dont think I've seen a modified Turbo motor last that long. Mind you I havent seen alot of modified turbo motors.


Why should horsepower be such a big deal? I watched a 280whp Miata hit 12.1 1/4 mile at race city. Hes got a 1.6 Turbo setup. Stock internals, rebuilt tranny, and Ironically enough a Turbo II rear end. Using slicks. He said theres a supercharged one in the club that is faster. I've seen it, but I havent seen it go.


Gary's setup lived up to my expectations. Given a choice between say max's car and garys, I'd take garys. I stand by the supercharger, no matter how many times the turbo laps me on the track. Its different and its fasinating. Its a step aside from the same old turbo this, turbo that.

CODE BLUE 2

You have to drive a Supercharged car to understand why. Reasons I wanted to go Supercharged was for the low end and because everyone has a turbo. Honestly I have thought many a time going turbo on my blue car from the frustrations. Its all about what it does to you when your actually driving...it is just a more intense feeling.



Your sorta correct about the people that do have the superchargers. They do expect more out of their cars. I was always frustrated when the car didnt do what it felt it should do. As for all the mods on my car. Everything is all setup correctly including the fuel system. Only one thing I need to change is where my fuel regulator is located, and move a few more fuel lines to the other side of the blower instead of by my blower.

Takes a long time to get everything right, with endless modding.

I prefer a Supercharger for fun and I prefer a Turbo for my daily car.

eoph

did it happen to be a red maita? i would take max's any day........i never drove anything supercharged before, but the the stock s4 turbo's 'lag' never bothered me(when all was working....).

Chris Ng

Actually, I wasn't referring to you Code.. I'm confident that you have at least half an idea when it comes to these cars.. I was refering to some others in here who pipe up regurgating information they have read off the net, but really have no clue what they are actually talking about ... At least You (Code) know the function of a fuel regulator and how to properly plumb one in...

Why attempt to contribute technical information if you really don't know what you are talking about? I guess that's what i'm getting at...

BTW, the rest of you calgary folks... Hello from Vegas...
I am convinced that Ogden Utah is the rice car capital of the world...

Archangels

hey chris!, how's vegas...?

you comming to the car show August 20th...?

Maxthe7man

You should try a decent size turbo on your car rather than just a stocker...I am sure haveing twice the rear wheel power you have now would be "intense"...Max

soloracer951

84 Stock: For those who might be considering a supercharger upgrade path like yours would you mind telling us how much it cost (including parts, labour, shop costs, etc.) ?

Chris: Did you have the traditional "Elvis" wedding or did you go for the new "quicky" drive through window?

rx7_turbo2

Dyno numbers are corrected for altitude, so you'll have to look for another reason for the lower than expected numbers. Who told you that was the reason for the low numbers? Besides everyone else who's dyno'd in this city seems to spitting out numbers that are on par with what's expected, why would you bee any different? Seems strange to use that as a reason for low hp numbers.

Throwing in weird correction numbers is how a few of us suspect places like speedtech and davenport always seem to put out "generous" numbers.

Just to clarify, I have driven a supercharged car, couple of them actually. Don't like them much at all, personal preference I suppose. And again I just don't see the point. I can kind of add up what it would cost to do what 84stock did just in my head and it's got to be right about the same as a big turbo upgrade, and to make 150rwhp? Just doesnt go around for me, even if it made 200rwhp, turbo for our application just seems to make more sense. Ah well to each there own.

What's the deal with the fuel system talk? Anybody care to clarify? Who plumbed the fuel system? And Why was it wrong?

He Chris, not that you would be but if your out one night and you feel the need for some hookers or blow, just ask I'll give you a number to call

Alak

iTrader: (9)

To clairfy the fuel system, it was plumbed by RX-7 Specialties (Whomp Whomp Whomp). It didnt meet the demands of the secondaries under load. As the secondaries opened, the fuel pressure dropped equally as much. Nuff said about that.


I personally think that Gary needs a bigger carb. Theres a couple things he could do to try to gain some ponies here and there. But I dont think it really matters anymore.


As for the price:

The Blower was $5300 Installed on the OLD motor. That included the carburetor, plumbing, labour, new front cover, cross member and mounts and a couple other things that may or may have not been used.

I cannot discuss the cost of the engine. And Its upto gary to give a hint what it cost. I, however, am binded.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

The blower did add up to $5300, but it did include new front bracket, new marine front cover with a steel bung for the oil line rather than tapping into aluminum, included the air fuel & boost guages, all labor and installation. Damn shame it popped the stocker sooo quick. I'll give Adam and his boys credit, the day it was to be done on the stocker they stayed until 12:30am finishing it to keep their word on the delivery date. When the motor popped, Adam gave me an undisclosable deal which I appreciate. All his gang put a lot of extra time and effort out including himself. I think they just appreciated the uniqueness of the car. I have to admit that I pushed the stock engine pretty hard before getting used to everything. I followed specific break-in instructions on the rebuild and all is working well. You must understand, this really isn't a "kit", you need to do fabricating and tuning. The fuel return and pressure regulator Adam used has worked great on stock n/a set-ups and recommended by Atkins as well, just didn't work right for me. He did everything you'd find here on the forum, including a restrictor in the return line. I went this way just because so many say they're gonna do it and never do. I rode in a TII and didn't like the lag, that helped with my choice. I'm not young, drove a lot of big blocks in my day and like the torque over the zingy top end of a good turbo setup. The money was about 10% of a recently received inheritance from my dad passing away, so I consider it a gift. I think of him and how much he'd like the car when I drive it. Had this been hard earned savings, I may have been more frugal and stayed high compression on a well designed n/a. If you drive this car, you'd understand, the s/c is a "unique" feeling rather than the most bang for the buck. Ask why someone would opt for an RX8 wehn the new mustang beats it for $10,000 less? It's all about what suits the driver.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

There is still soo much more to do to bring this thing further along. Del (from Deltech) suggested a "fuel cooler" and water/methanol injection. This winter, Max is gonna help with the water/meth injection by modifying the carb spacer with a sprayer and using nos jets for tuning and this could be boost triggerable. I would likely use the factory headlight washer bottle for the reservoir given it's location. As for fuel, I plumb the lines out front and use a fan operated transmission cooler. This will help with the ability to cool the intake and run more boost. Other future items may include MSD with a tuneable timing curve. Next year as well with be exhaust, I am debating on true duals or a road race type set-up. The following year when I choose between paint and suspension, I'll look and better venting to the engine bay.

Roshambo

Throw up the dyno sheet when you get a chance. I want to see the torque curve of the supercharged rotary that puts my stockish TII that develops peak torque at 3,500RPM to shame. I am hoping that you started the run from low enough RPM though.

I have been in numerous supercharged, turbocharged and big displacement cars and do know it's characteristics. Different people enjoy the different traits of making power, I understand that.

Has anybody tried a centrifugal supercharger on a rotary yet? Lends itself to be intercooled very easily, or it's design too much like a turbocharger for your supercharger folks?

Alak

iTrader: (9)

I belive the run on that particular dyno sheet was started at 3500RPM in 4th gear? I dont remember really. I know we only printed 1 off due to time concerns.

When we ran from 1800 I think It built up like right away. I know we had almost full boost (10PSI of 13PSI) at 2000RPM. Secondaries were fully open at 4000RPM and to me it sounded like it ran out of carb at 6000RPM. I dont think it was the engine that caused the limited power. I think its the carb, it ain't big enough IMO.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

Not the carb! After talking to Max I agree heat is the big issue. The charger has a "sweet spot" for boost, too much and you build up too much heat and lose power. I put on the #7 pulley today (less boost) and saw the boost climb with rpm rather than level off and it revved well when it went up over 6500 and sounded sweeter too. Will be trying the #6 pulley as well. May go back to my modified holley as I think it will be very compatible with the carb hat and allow for a fabricated cold air intake (Max and Adam both suggest it needs). unfortunately this will require batter reolcation, any suggestions?? Once I get Max to help with the water/meth injection we can increase boost, combined with a successfull cold air intake and fuel cooling system I hope for big results.