Big Turbo Time! Midsummer 2007 Pics/Update On Project Tina
07-19-07, 02:30 PM
#27
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Currently I'm getting about 160 KM per tank of mostly city driving, but that's creeping up slowly as I tune the car. Good thing gas is cheap(er) right now!GreenPeace yelled at me yesterday for poisoning the Earth. I yelled back that my other car is an Insight...
500 something. Probably need more fuel actually. The 720CC primaries are a bit small I think considering how fast this turbo makes boost.
07-19-07, 02:43 PM
#28
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500hp?! That's alot of power! You'll definately need bigger injectors if you want that type of power.
The Garrett GT series turbos are really nice. They spool up like a ****.
The Garrett GT series turbos are really nice. They spool up like a ****.
07-19-07, 03:07 PM
#29
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I can't say anything that hasn't been said already, you really have this way of presenting your project that makes it interesting to read (and look at) thoroughly.
It just SHOWS how much effort and detail is put into it. We missed you at the Ottawa meet, but I guess it was worth it and I can't wait to see you with your monster (read monster in the good way of course).
It just SHOWS how much effort and detail is put into it. We missed you at the Ottawa meet, but I guess it was worth it and I can't wait to see you with your monster (read monster in the good way of course).
07-20-07, 08:50 AM
#34
What size are your secondaries now Aaron?
And also - do you attribute much of the turbo's responsiveness to the aggressive port timing of the N/A? Seems to me from your descriptions the thing is wickedly touchy even with the large(ish) hotside.
And also - do you attribute much of the turbo's responsiveness to the aggressive port timing of the N/A? Seems to me from your descriptions the thing is wickedly touchy even with the large(ish) hotside.
07-20-07, 10:22 AM
#35
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720CC primary, 1600CC secondary. Currently running a base fuel pressure of 40 PSI.
When I ported the engine, I ported the exhaust ports down a little. It is still high compression, and of course theres the effect of the bridge. I suspect all combine to help spool.
When I ported the engine, I ported the exhaust ports down a little. It is still high compression, and of course theres the effect of the bridge. I suspect all combine to help spool.
07-20-07, 10:31 AM
#36
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This is from a haltech point of view, not sure how the microtech stages/etc but it should be similar.
07-20-07, 03:45 PM
#37
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Yeah, I can lower the stage point. But by doing that, I'll have to retune my map. It's a bit strange how the Microtech does staging in that the stage percent effects the injectors off stage instead of on stage. It's actually quite brilliant...here's the details:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182032
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182032
07-21-07, 07:43 PM
#38
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Fabrication Plus
Words don't describe how impressed I am with your fabrication and creativity.
Very nice job you did indeed.
To think, I just shelled out $500.00 for a high flow front cat D.P. and a couple of gaskets,
and you did all that for how much $$ >?
I wouldn't have the time or creative perseverence that you have to do such a nice job.
Nice job with the photos to share your work.
I hope to see this impressive machine in person.
Ace IIB
Very nice job you did indeed.
To think, I just shelled out $500.00 for a high flow front cat D.P. and a couple of gaskets,
and you did all that for how much $$ >?
I wouldn't have the time or creative perseverence that you have to do such a nice job.
Nice job with the photos to share your work.
I hope to see this impressive machine in person.
Ace IIB
07-22-07, 09:31 AM
#39
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Yesterday afternoon a little tuning took place. Finally got some time to get out of the city and actually see some real boost.
First the low load was cleaned up so that at light throttles an in vacuum, A/F ratios are rarely richer then 13.5. This made a huge difference in the way the car drives, not to mention fuel consumption. I'd go as far to say that it drives nearly as easily as stock. You can cruise all day at 2000 RPM without issues with the A/F ratios in the high 14s, and the car can be launched at 1700 RPM without any major drama.
Slowly we worked up to 10 PSI and past, bringing the fuel down to reasonable levels. At 10+ PSI, the car is a beast. Even with A/F ratios of 10:1, the thing just hauls hard. At 14 PSI the turbo really comes alive and the car looses traction in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It's my guess that at less then 15 PSI, the car is easily a mid to low 12 second car and that's with A/F ratios probably costing 80HP. Once things are a little saner at 11.5:1 under 10 PSI and probably 11:1 or high-10s at above 10 PSI the car will really start to pull.
No real videos right now of the tuning, but here's a little teaser showing the real response of a ball bearing turbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1MryAt1dw8
Count how many seconds it takes to stop spinning after the car is turned off.
First the low load was cleaned up so that at light throttles an in vacuum, A/F ratios are rarely richer then 13.5. This made a huge difference in the way the car drives, not to mention fuel consumption. I'd go as far to say that it drives nearly as easily as stock. You can cruise all day at 2000 RPM without issues with the A/F ratios in the high 14s, and the car can be launched at 1700 RPM without any major drama.
Slowly we worked up to 10 PSI and past, bringing the fuel down to reasonable levels. At 10+ PSI, the car is a beast. Even with A/F ratios of 10:1, the thing just hauls hard. At 14 PSI the turbo really comes alive and the car looses traction in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It's my guess that at less then 15 PSI, the car is easily a mid to low 12 second car and that's with A/F ratios probably costing 80HP. Once things are a little saner at 11.5:1 under 10 PSI and probably 11:1 or high-10s at above 10 PSI the car will really start to pull.
No real videos right now of the tuning, but here's a little teaser showing the real response of a ball bearing turbo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1MryAt1dw8
Count how many seconds it takes to stop spinning after the car is turned off.
07-23-07, 10:10 AM
#41
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Finally someone noticed the oil filter! I was smiling the whole time I bought that because I was just waiting for someone to complain. 
A little more tuning yesterday. The car has lots of fuel for probably as much as the turbo will throw at it. At 13 PSI (current wastegate spring, no controller) injector times are less then 4 mS and A/F ratios are still in the mid 10s. I'm slowly cleaning up the car and aiming for high 11s before 10 PSI, low 11s at 13 PSI and high 10s at higher boost. Timing is currently very conservative under boost with a linear progression from 15 degrees or so around 8 PSI ending up at 10 degrees at 13 PSI and above. Certainly there is more power to be made with timing but I'll cross that bridge on the dyno and not the street. The car is rapidly becoming too fast to safely tune on even the most remote and deserted roads. Rolling on the throttle will result in loss of traction in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear at nearly any speed.
Boost control is rock solid. It spools to 13 PSI then just sits there regardless of load without a hint of creep.
I must say that the datalogging feature of the Nexus gauges has made this process very simple. Of course the Microtech does datalogging, but it's far more convenient to grab the Nexus remote and step through a run while tweaking the fuel map at the same time. Currently I have a 512MB SD card in the remote for logging which is about 30 minutes worth of recording. Very handy for the drive to and from work to clean up cold start and cruise.
A little more tuning yesterday. The car has lots of fuel for probably as much as the turbo will throw at it. At 13 PSI (current wastegate spring, no controller) injector times are less then 4 mS and A/F ratios are still in the mid 10s. I'm slowly cleaning up the car and aiming for high 11s before 10 PSI, low 11s at 13 PSI and high 10s at higher boost. Timing is currently very conservative under boost with a linear progression from 15 degrees or so around 8 PSI ending up at 10 degrees at 13 PSI and above. Certainly there is more power to be made with timing but I'll cross that bridge on the dyno and not the street. The car is rapidly becoming too fast to safely tune on even the most remote and deserted roads. Rolling on the throttle will result in loss of traction in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear at nearly any speed.
Boost control is rock solid. It spools to 13 PSI then just sits there regardless of load without a hint of creep.
I must say that the datalogging feature of the Nexus gauges has made this process very simple. Of course the Microtech does datalogging, but it's far more convenient to grab the Nexus remote and step through a run while tweaking the fuel map at the same time. Currently I have a 512MB SD card in the remote for logging which is about 30 minutes worth of recording. Very handy for the drive to and from work to clean up cold start and cruise.
08-19-07, 04:13 PM
#42
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As promised, here are a few 1/4 mile videos from a few weeks ago. No hard launches or really serious runs, just testing and getting used to the car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woj7628Z0ag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woj7628Z0ag
08-19-07, 10:36 PM
#43
love the braaaap
Wow. I've gotta see this car sometime!! Looks pretty sweet and very nice job on all the work Aaron. Very clean overall, and looks amazingly fast. And to still have high compression rotors and a 6 port making this much power is really something special. I hope to be making about half the power you hope for on my turbo'd 6 port S4 in my 82.
08-20-07, 09:55 AM
#46
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People talk about the NA rotors as if it's a negative. I don't think I'd ever build a turbo rotary any other way after experiencing the major effect they have on turbo response and power. All the high compression turbo engines that I've been involved with have turned out very well and also just as reliable as low compression TII engines.
As for the trap speed, it certainly speaks to the potential of the car even at low boost. Every race start with Tina a few car lengths behind but it was all over once I got into 3rd gear. Once the fuel map is a bit smoother and I have some more practice launching the car, the 60 foot times should decrease by about a second and the car should be in the 12s @ 13 PSI.
I don't think I'd ever build a turbo rotary any other way after experiencing the major effect they have on turbo response and power. All the high compression turbo engines that I've been involved with have turned out very well and also just as reliable as low compression TII engines.As for the trap speed, it certainly speaks to the potential of the car even at low boost. Every race start with Tina a few car lengths behind but it was all over once I got into 3rd gear. Once the fuel map is a bit smoother and I have some more practice launching the car, the 60 foot times should decrease by about a second and the car should be in the 12s @ 13 PSI.
08-29-07, 10:10 AM
#47
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Updates and Dyno Runs
On Monday I booked some time at Chandler Techologies to run the car on their Dynocom dyno. I was initially worried that the day was not going to go so well as my passenger side front caliper stuck on the way there (what the hell? Seriously....) but then again, you don't need front brakes to dyno a car!
After the car was strapped in, the baseline run made 320 RWHP at 13 PSI. Much more then was expected (I guessed it would make 266, others guessed 275) keeping in mind that the current "tune" in boost just meant that the A/F ratios were barely registering on the gauge at something other then 10:1 flat.
With each successive run we pulled a bit of fuel and gained between 10 and 20 HP every time. After approximately 6-8 runs (I lost count) the final number was 387 RWHP, 279 FT-LBS @ 13 PSI. A conservative estimate puts that right around 420 HP at the flywheel. Not half bad for an hour on the dyno on low boost. A/F ratios are in the mid 12s until about 5 PSI, falling to the mid 11s to 10 PSI, then low 11s to 13 PSI. Timing is still VERY conservative at 10 degrees. I could put a few degrees of timing into it right now and pick up a few more HP but I'd rather wait and borrow an EGT gauge (or buy a cheap one) before I start bumping timing too much.
The video from the last few runs is available to download in two formats. The first is a high quality Windows Media file and is about 15 MB in size. You can really see and hear things the way it took place (the whine from the turbo is unbelievable). You'll probably want to "Right Click, Save As" to download it instead of opening it directly in your media player. The 2nd link is the same video on YouTube but the quality is not that great (especially the audio).
Project Tina First Dyno Runs (WMA High Quality)
Project Tina First Dyno Runs On YouTube
The next step is to install a boost controller and crank that turbo up to 17 PSI where it belongs. I fully expect 500 HP to the wheels once I get into real boost...
On Monday I booked some time at Chandler Techologies to run the car on their Dynocom dyno. I was initially worried that the day was not going to go so well as my passenger side front caliper stuck on the way there (what the hell? Seriously....) but then again, you don't need front brakes to dyno a car!
After the car was strapped in, the baseline run made 320 RWHP at 13 PSI. Much more then was expected (I guessed it would make 266, others guessed 275) keeping in mind that the current "tune" in boost just meant that the A/F ratios were barely registering on the gauge at something other then 10:1 flat.
With each successive run we pulled a bit of fuel and gained between 10 and 20 HP every time. After approximately 6-8 runs (I lost count) the final number was 387 RWHP, 279 FT-LBS @ 13 PSI. A conservative estimate puts that right around 420 HP at the flywheel. Not half bad for an hour on the dyno on low boost. A/F ratios are in the mid 12s until about 5 PSI, falling to the mid 11s to 10 PSI, then low 11s to 13 PSI. Timing is still VERY conservative at 10 degrees. I could put a few degrees of timing into it right now and pick up a few more HP but I'd rather wait and borrow an EGT gauge (or buy a cheap one) before I start bumping timing too much.
The video from the last few runs is available to download in two formats. The first is a high quality Windows Media file and is about 15 MB in size. You can really see and hear things the way it took place (the whine from the turbo is unbelievable). You'll probably want to "Right Click, Save As" to download it instead of opening it directly in your media player. The 2nd link is the same video on YouTube but the quality is not that great (especially the audio).
Project Tina First Dyno Runs (WMA High Quality)
Project Tina First Dyno Runs On YouTube
The next step is to install a boost controller and crank that turbo up to 17 PSI where it belongs. I fully expect 500 HP to the wheels once I get into real boost...
08-29-07, 10:22 AM
#48
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looks like things are on track power-wise, very nice!
hmm, i can't seem to download the video (maybe the network here at work is blocking it for some reason), but the youtube one works. sounds pretty crazy.
so one question, how will this drive on the street at 17 PSI? haha...
hmm, i can't seem to download the video (maybe the network here at work is blocking it for some reason), but the youtube one works. sounds pretty crazy.
so one question, how will this drive on the street at 17 PSI? haha...
08-29-07, 10:55 AM
#49
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From Creative Thoughts to Completion
It was great to see the progress with all the photos >> videos >> Narration.
Seeing it at MOTM 2007 was even better.
Glad you have exceeded your expectations on projected H.P.
If you think you have may have a bit too much, let me know, I could use a little extra H.P.
Great job on all your work Aaron.
URL worked for me.
Cheers
Ace IIB
Seeing it at MOTM 2007 was even better.
Glad you have exceeded your expectations on projected H.P.
If you think you have may have a bit too much, let me know, I could use a little extra H.P.
Great job on all your work Aaron.
URL worked for me.
Cheers
Ace IIB
08-29-07, 12:37 PM
#50
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The car is scary to drive on the street right now...I don't even want to imagine 17 PSI.
Some might have issues with the video since I am using the Coral Content Distribution Network to help save some of my bandwidth. If you have an old DNS server or a strange firewall then the redirect may not work. In that case, PM me for a direct link.
Some might have issues with the video since I am using the Coral Content Distribution Network to help save some of my bandwidth. If you have an old DNS server or a strange firewall then the redirect may not work. In that case, PM me for a direct link.