doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

holy crap! what a great GP.. the commentary was actually interesting for the first time in years!! AND what better place for the GP to be a farce, but in indy.. Tony George getting it from both sides I love it Kharma coming back on him, regardless of his efforts.. ( he killed CART and open wheel in north america the bastard )

Anyway I love that this happened.. I REALY want to see the breakaway GPWC take off. this could be the key stone for it I'm hoping.. F1= petty ego's and insipid eurotrash politics.. the USGP was the best example of the stupidity inherent in the system..

01Racing

Now everyone knows why NASCAR is where it is and all the forms of Road Racing are where they are. F1 has become a joke and this was the ultimate! I wonder if there will be another USGP in the future?

edv

As much as I dislike NASCAR, F1 could surely take a lesson from them in How to Respect the Fans.
NASCAR's fan-centric strategy works well. I'm amazed other series don't go to school on them.
After this Michelin debacle, I expect they'll be selling 'Freedom Fries' at IMS from now on...

RXciting

I didn't watch the race, as F1 has really become a joke, stopped watching it in 96 i think.
But from what i heard last night, the field was composed of 6 cars!? That is a Joke F1 needs to get it's head out of the clouds and get rid of alot of BS. Hopefully then it will be interesting enough to watch again like i used to

Mld>7

F1 is a Joke? It has its problems but wow! What would you call ChampCar then? or the IRL? or even NASCAR?...

I will agree with one thing though… "Certain members" of F1 could certainly take a lesson on how to respect the fans from our friends of the perpetual left turn. But then again NASCAR could learn a thing or two themselves..

You guys really need to get your facts straight... Do some research before your throw your opinions around because is obvious that right now you dont know the full story.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

The answer to this is going to depend on whether F1 can decide to weather a couple of years of poor spectator and advertising support in order to show US (and to some extent Canadian) fans that they can put on a worthwhile event.
I didn't watch the race yesterday - and if I had, I would have turned to something else anyway. Over the last few years my attention to F1 has waned anyway. As much as I loathe the roundy-round of NASCAR, it has certainly has benefitted from putting on a spectacle, not just a race. The limited technology permitted by rules makes the chassis less important, and the driver more - and people probably identify more with personalities than manufacturers, although NASCAR plays to that too. F1 the last few years has become interesting mainly for how soon in the season Ferrari and Micheal can sew up the constructors and driver's championship. Intellectually I appreciate the level of organization and expertise that has led to Ferrari and Schumacher's dominance of F1, but that doesn't make me tape events or watch in the middle of the night to keep up with what's going on in the sport - I just read the race summaries online or in Road and Track, since the racing isn't that compelling.

RXcetera

Has anybody actually been watching this years F1 races up until the US GP? This has been an awesome season with NO Ferrari domination. People should be blaming Michelin for what happened, not F1. The FIA's hands where tied.

p4nc7

iTrader: (1)

I say blame the teams..It's their responsibility to put on a show. They could have still gone ahead with the race, and hell even changed tires, but of course their egos got in the way. Also I believe this has been one of the best seasons of F1 in awhile. NO domination at all. =)

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

By the same token, FIA could have been less rigid and allowed a fresh batch of tires, which Michelin had apparently offered up (if they were any different?) - but FIA wouldn't make an exception to the rule on same qualifying and race tires (they could have allowed all teams fresh tires to make it equal I suppose). Hard to fault the teams/drivers after 2 cars experienced major tire failures in practice/qualifying and wrecked cars, and Michelin warned there was a problem. FIA also refused to put in a chicane to restrict speeds and limit the potential for disaster if a tire failed. So no one would budge, and the event turned into a joke. There seems to be more than enough blame to go around... and they'll all get to pay for it in reduced fan support and advertising and TV dollars down the road.
I'm afraid I haven't really followed the season so far... too bad for me I guess if the competition is back

RXcetera

The FIA did permit the teams to change tires and Michelin did have some other tires shipped for Sunday morning, but those tires showed the same problem.

Adding a chicane would have been totally unfair to the Bridgstone teams who had tires which could handle the banking.

Mld>7

This is not the FIA or the FOM's problem, its Michelins. Lets just put it this way.. if the tables were turned, and Ferrari, Jordan, and Minardi were having a tire problem, then none of this would be an issue. It would all be racked up as one more bad race for Bridgestone. This is the same type of problem that has been happening to Ferrari all season long and they were handed no special favours. Now just because Michelin is losing out and they supply the bulk of the teams they expect special treatment. The FIA did exactly what they should have done.

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

guys, this track has been part of the GP circuit for 6 years now, if Michelin can't provide the proper tyre this time around, then it puts everyone in a really tight postion.

and as said, this has been a great season so far. almost all the races have had very unexpected outcomes, there are teams with very fast cars that are not doing well at all (Honda), and we are seeing a good mix of "lower" tier teams getting points.

F1 is not a "joke" if you actually realize the technology that these cars represent, and see these cars perform in person.
what may be called a "joke" are all the politics, money, and manufacturer mistakes we sometimes see...

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

I'm going to keep my perspective to myself.

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

As a fan, I could have accepted the 'chicane' idea, at least that would have allowed all 10 teams to run, and it would have been a real race at least. Unfair, yes, but it would have been better than the farce we saw.

But, I totally understand the FIA's stance on the issue. It is up to all the manufacturers, including the tire makers, to ensure that they have the correct equipment. If they don't, then they have to accept the consequences, including having shitty tires that need to be replaced half way through the race.

IMO, that is what they should have done. Replaced the tires every 15 laps or whatever...your loss for using Michelins.

But of course, that would have meant that 14 cars have a disadvantage. And you can't have that . No one was crying any tears when Bridgestone was sucking, like MLD already said.

It is hard to blame the FIA, or F1. It is the fault of the teams and Michelin, who totally gave the fans the **** YOU.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

Thier is enough blame to go around , easily.. FIA for being pig nosed and stubborn, Michlien for not being prepared.. and on that note Idny speedway for having a 3rd rate repaving job done to the point where NASCAR cancelled a test and race there.. ( Tony George IS the devil). I can't blame the teams , thye had no chioce but to pull the drivers.. one of thier technical suppliers says "no good" and they are contracted to pull the drivers for saftey reasons.. and littigation reasons. The chicane would have been a nice compromise. It would have given the fans the best race possible , regardless of tyres.

The problem with the FIA F1 reccomendation of a) runnig slower.. HOW on earth is 14 cars going 150kph slower then the other 6 cars on the HS banks SAFER!!!??? b) The tyre changes would have been more like every 1-8 laps given the fact that allot of tyres weren't even good for a single qualifying lap before they started to come apart.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

This will definetly be a fatal blow to FIA. I can forsee USGP not making a 2006 season, if there is one.


It wasnt tyre wear that was a factor. It was the accual tyre type that presented the problem. And the rules state that you can't change your type once you've started qualifying. Otherwise they probably would have ran a few laps, then pitted.

IMO - FIA generates its money from the teams itself. The fanbase is marginal, but not enough to fund a car like that. Nascar gets its money from the fans. Without the fans, its nothing. Almost 500,000 people attend each Nascar race, and theres ALOT of races. FIA, maybe 500,000 in some crazy place like Italy - but theres only 17 Circuits (or 18 or whatever).


I prefer Nascar over F1 because its even. The difference between cars is little to nothing. F1 is basically whoever has the bank-roll. Example - Ferrari. You never know who will win a Nascar race. Last years F1 was unbelivably predictable.

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

I have much to say about this ordeal - as I was there - but right now all I can say is that there are a few people to blame; all of whome were just too pig-headed to come to a reasonable solution.

I can proudly say that I was one of the paying attendees who were on there feet with both middle fingers in the air booing.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

did you beat the idots tossing stuff onto the track.. thier is a limit to the stupidity allowed when angry.. that crosses the line. ignorant.. that may be acceptable at a nascar race but not with open wheelers.. then RB ran over that water bottle I thought for sure the force of the water was going to break something ... lucky boy. I've seen water splinter carbon props at speed in the right conditions.. not a good scene.

Feds

I heard this morning that the FIA has scheduled hearings for all of the teams that pulled out.

This is going to get much worse before it gets any better.

edv

True.
In the end, it comes down to the teams.
They are responsible to bring safe ond compliant cars to each race.
They failed in this case.
It is utlimately their fault, never mind Michelin.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

I've been reading for years in the British race mechnaical mags that a 'change is needed.. but for the last 3 years the whole manufacturing industry has REALLY started to open slam F1.. This is an industry that supplies most of F1 with parts, R&D and technical people.. I can the GPWC taking off quite quickly if the FIA decided to ' punish' the said teams and manufacturers. My hope is that , if it does happen they go back to the old 2.0L turbo setups with less electronic assistance. CART has gotten so much better for the removal of allot of electronic driving controls.

RacerJason

iTrader: (5)

The fault lies on almost everyone (don't make me explain it)... except for (funny enough) Tony George whom whom is the second victim preceeded by the fans. Karma comes full circle for Tony, I love that... see you in Cleveland

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

I would not say the F1 fan base is 'marginal'. You have to remember that F1 is a international racing series, with a worldwide viewership, and a large global fanbase. Also, F1 is expanding into new countries constantly.

In terms of actual race attendance, sure, NASCAR has the upper hand. It is a lot easier to surround an oval with seats than a road course. But an F1 race has no problems filling the seats it has.

Dom

Wow, there is actually something going on in F1 this year?

Nick86

iTrader: (1)

What an experience. Brutal – just brutal.

This was the sixth year that I went to IMS for the USGP, and it was shaping up to be an awesome race - probably the best of the yFormula One. It was truly a farce.

This was a situation that was caused by and worsened by a bunch of hard headed people who had their own interests in mind, rather than the best interest of the sport. What happened this weekend was a serious blow to F1 in America, and took the notion of Sportsmanship out of The problem with all this is that there is no one single party who is to blame. Lets look at this from an unemotional point of view.

There were three tire failures, that all came from the same team! From this, Michelin came to the conclusion that the tires they had brought were unsafe to use on the banking of Turn 13. Now, this conclusion was made on Friday evening, and was a safety concern. The rules stipulate that the tire company must bring with them 2 sets of tires: one all out race tire, and one “Plan B” backup tire. Michelin did not do this. They brought 2 “race” tires to the track. They did this because they conducted tire tests with Sauber and BAR at the Speedway, and believed that both race tires would be suitable. Neither were. And because they didn’t have the “Plane B” tire, they had screwed themselves. So, what to do? Shipping in new tires was an option, but would have meant a significant cost, and it would have contravened the rules as they are written. So, instead of trying to come to compromise with the FIA, IMS and ALL 10 Teams, they came up with one single option: an option that would cost Michelin absolutely no money, and would put the onus on someone else. They tried to weasel their way out of the issue by mandating a Chicane in Turn 13.

The FIA wrote a book of rules, by which each and every team much comply. There are two types of rules, Sporting Rules and Technical Rules. Technical Rules are ones that mandate the specifications of the car – and are the rules that BAR were found guilty of contravening this year. It is the FIA’s job to enforce these rules. The Sporting Rules are the ones that describe the manner by which each team/company etc must conduct themselves, and the manner by which qualifying etc will take place. It is these rules that Michelin WOULD HAVE broken by bringing in new tires. Now, there are provisions within the FIA rules that can offer some loopholes in the event of a safety problem. The issue was that the FIA didn’t believe that the Michelin problem was out of their control, so using the “Safety Loophole” would have been going around the rules. So, the FIA proposes yet another half-baked proposal: Limit the Michelin shod cars to a maximum speed in Turn 13. This too was a stupid idea, and one that couldn’t have been enforced properly.

The 7 teams were guilty by association, and guilty by the reasoning “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.” In many ways the teams had their hands tied. They have a contract with Michelin and have no choice but to use the tires and adhere to the decisions that Michelin make. The teams are partly to blame here because of their passive role in the matter. They felt that they should not be penalized for Michelin’s mistake – but in reality they should have been. It was silly to think otherwise, and then they let Michelin make their decisions for them, and made little or no effort to come up with other solutions. They are guilty through their inactivity.

So where does that leave us? With a bunch of grown men acting like 8 year olds. Michelin fucked up, and asked to be “let off” the hook because of safety issues. They realize how much money this will cost and back pedal a bit. I agree with Peter Windsor in that the tire issue was probably blown out of proportion as well, in order to give the safety loophole more weight as an option. Michelin then propose a solution that was completely irrational and decided that they will play Hardball. The FIA then countered with a solution that was just as stupid, and stubbornly stuck by it. With these egos in play, nobody would concede any blame or come to a realistic solution. In the end, the FIA called Michelin’s bluff, but both lose.

The FIA should have said to Michelin “You WILL bring new tires to the track immediately.” Then said “All teams (Michelin and Bridgestone) will qualify on one set of tires, and race on another. Should the teams fear a safety issue with their tires, you can come in and change all 4 tires, but take on no fuel or make any other adjustments to the car.” They could have also allowed the Michelin guys to use new tires, but placed them all at the back of the grid. Any way you slice it, there were viable options, but nobody would concede that they were to blame, and nobody would actively search for an option that EVERYONE would be happy with. All the talks were either with just the Michelin Runners, Just the Bridgestone runners, or with the FIA and one tire manufacturer. At no point did everyone sit down and say “We need to do what is best for the sport. How can we do that?”

As far as the whole “Throwing things on Track” is concerned, while it was stupid, it was also blown WAY out of proportion. There were almost 150,000 people there, and no more than 10 things were thrown on track. 10 out of 150,000 is a good ratio in my opinion – and you’ll always get retards in the crowd who will do **** like that. But to be completely honest I was quite pleased with how well the crowd reacted. They booed, whistled, and shouted – but there were no riots and the debris thrown on track was minimal. Imagine if that was a NASCAR race and Ford said “We wont race.”? That would have been a complete riot. The F1 fans were, as a group, well behaved and should be commended for that in light of how they were screwed. Most of them stayed to the end as well.

In the end everyone looses. The fans lose, F1 in America loses, F1 in general loses, Michelin loses, IMS loses, Ferrari loses, Sponsors lose, and so does the TV audiences. Bernie Eccelstone keeps saying how important America is to F1, but then they do this. I also have to say that I am not a fan of Tony George (a.k.a. The Idiot Grandson) but he got screwed as well. He did nothing wrong, and yet the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is being held accountable by its fans. So much so that they shut their Customer Service Desk today and erected a giant banner that read “We are disappointed Too.” I for one will be writing a letter to the FIA and Michelin – not to “ demand my money back” but to voice my opinion. I expect nothing out of it, but feel that I need to put my frustration in writing, and the IMS is not the right target. I doubt that I’ll ever see a penny of reimbursement, but having someone take some sort of responsibility would be nice. This was a perfect example of how F1 thinks way too much of where their money goes, and not enough of where it comes from.

I’ll post some pics and some more thoughts soon – but for now I am just frustrated. It was a fantastic weekend that had a shitty 2 hours in the middle.

As a side note, I would like to commend ChampCar. Anyone who had a ticket to the USGP can trade it for a grandstand seat at the Cleveland ChampCar race on the weekend. While it may be a PR move, I think it is astute, and it is a sign that some people stil think of the fans of Motorsport.