rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/200...anesecars.html

This might have an impact on anyone hoping to import a nice, clean JDM FD, or even FC's - BC is apparently pushing for Transport Canada to increase the 15 year rule to 25 years for importing vehicles not originally certified for Canada. Apparently, ICBC thinks they might be a higher risk for passing accidents. While that is a real consideration for RHD cars on 2 lane highway, I would think they would know yes or no to that, so I suspect that is a smokescreen, and that they really don't like that most of the cars coming over are performance and luxury models of various stripes, so they probably think they're serving the public by preventing fast and expensive-to-repair cars falling into the hands of the "Fast and the Furious" set and other assorted idiots.

So if you don't want to be "serviced" by the long left arm of the BC government in this way, you might want to speak up to your MP. Given that the normally less-government-is-better Harper Tories brought in the largely pointless street racing bill, it would be wise to assume that if you don't speak up, ICBC might be able to sell this nannying as another public safety issue with no downside for the Feds.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

The sale of RHD Cars and cars not originally availiable in canada is driving people away from new AND used car sales. You can import a car in better condition and at a far cheaper premium than you can buy the equal car here. The only difference being the steering wheel is 3 feet to the right.

ICBC would be pushing to limit this, because soon the imports will be reaching the far corners of the country and drive new, and used, car sales down now that almost any kind of import is availiable.

Just my 2 cents.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

I don't see how it could affect new car sales at all.

And I've never seen ANY imported car in better condition than a brand new car in a showroom, think about that for a second.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Car prices in Canada are grossly inflated, new and used. For example, for a new Mustang GT or RX-8, I've looked into pricing on both sides of the border. I'd save about CDN$6000 after factoring in adding DRL's and doing the RIV fees, paperwork, bus or plane ticket to US source, GST, and so on for an identically equipped Mustang, and its closer to $8000 for a better equipped US RX-8. And the nice thing is, you save both on the purchase price, and on the GST, since it is based on the lower purchase price. I haven't been able to find any vehicles for which a similar relationship (much lower US price) does not hold true; roughly 15-25% less for the same thing on the Yank side of the line. And that's just looking at MSRP's, even before considering that in parts of Canada, such as the prairies and Maritimes, cars tend sell at a premium anyway, probably because cross-border shopping is harder to do (a near universal trick locally in Calgary, at least, is to remove the manufacturer's msrp stickers as soon as cars hit the dealer's lot, replace them with inflated stickers, so people who don't do research think they're getting a big deal just by getting the price down to MSRP!).

Hence it is possible that cheap used imports could affect the entire market, by allowing people to spend their bucks on better alternatives - ie., go used and get a lot higher performing car than the same money gets in the new market, or get a lot newer/lower mileage/better equipped in the used market. For example, a lot of local autocross and rally enthusiasts are going to the US to buy new or used Suby's, because they can get a nice WRX or STi for far less than their new or used equivalents here - eg, get a 2 year old STi for less than a new WRX here.

Frankly, other than convenience, it just doesn't make sense to purchase a car new or used in Canada until you're looking at the under $10,000 range.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

how many cars sold in the US are RHD?

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

?!?

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

One thing you might want to investigate: Unless you are a cash buyer, the finance/leasing arms may have an issue with you taking the vehicle to another country. Be sure to check it out. I know I've heard of issues when taking a vehicle overseas. Although with the Mustang it's not a huge difference to go with bank financing.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Perhaps your right about new car sales.

However, I dont need to think about it at all. Other than the odometer, I've seen cars in japan that rival any showroom shine in canada. Or anywhere. I predict new car sales will start to decline, not because of RHD cars, but because of common sense. And bang for buck. You would be fool to pay full price for ANY car. Anyone would. I never have, and never will. So many people buy used now.

On the subject of RHD cars, Dollar for Dollar, you are most likely going to get a better deal in japan. New to Used - In a young lads mind, you can buy a $20,000 GT-R or a $60,000 STi. Warrenty means ****-all. Which car is superior is a matter of opinion, but they are both about equal. Used car to Used car, its hard to beat Japan. Their road conditions are best possible in the world, where as ours is worst possible.

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

Snrub: yes, on buying new in the US, I was referring to cash purchase - or at least effectively so, dealer/manufacturer financing wouldn't be available to cross-border shoppers. However, if you need to finance, some form of line of credit would work though - eg, a HELoC or other line-of-credit options (your bank is unlikely to volunteer this as an option, you likely have to ask for it), so your rate would be prime typically.

I was including the commentary on US vs Canada car prices as an example that car prices, new or used, are outrageously inflated in Canada - so it is no wonder that ordinary consumers, and not just enthusiasts looking for specialty models not available in Canada, are increasingly going to the US, or looking at the excellent older cars available from Japan. And I have a problem with ICBC lobbying the feds to make it harder to import RHD cars, as I see them as a potentially important source of market pressure on car prices in Canada generally. Besides, other than on 2 lane highways (mostly vacations in BC, as it happens), it is really hard to think of when I pass on the left - since slow moving vehicles on freeways all seem magnetically drawn to the left lane and won't give it up short of shooting out their tires, I most often end up passing on the right (not that I've tried, but the thought does cross one's mind from time to time ).

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

The CBC article said that ~147/month are going into BC per month. That's not an insignificant number. The passing on the left issue depends where you live. I live in a rural area and I do it all the time. Left turns in turning lanes have to be tricky at times. There's a reason that cars have different driving positions in different countries.

I just thought that I would mention the financing thing because the vast majority of people do not pay true cash for a vehicle. There's a big difference between getting a 2006 RX-8 @ 2.9% or even a 2007 @4.9% for 60M and getting an auto loan through the bank at 8.49%. For most people that fact alone would neutralize the advantage.

The prices relative to the US changed due to the change in the Canadian dollar. Back when we were at $0.62 our car prices were actually some of the lowest in the world. Now that we're in a $0.86-90 environment our prices aren't very good. Basically the automanufacturers took a bath in Canada for a number of years, but now they're making up for it by grossing us.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

if you think we have the worst roads in the world you need to go overseas for a while. Check out russia, for starters.... then go anywhere in africa, south of texas, or 90% of the rest of the world's countries outside of europe.. Our roads overall are probably top ten in the world, certainly top 20.

rx7racerca: this is about RHD vehicles, I don't see how Transport canada limiting RHD car imports would have ANYTHING to do with vehicles imported from the US.

Since when is warranty a non-issue with every car buyer on the planet?
Some people want a NEW CAR with the steering wheel on the correct side and aren't capable or willing to work on their own car. If you can't see that go outside and ask any person you find, chances are they'll tell you that. Do you think GM just increased their warranty to 160,000KM because they felt like it? I'm sure they wouldn't if it "meant nothing"

People have had 100 years to figure out that used cars are cheaper in the long and short term, I don't think that 150 cars a month coming from japan are going to suddenly change their perspective on things.

Maybe if 1500 a month (or 15,000) were coming across, we'd have a large problem... but right now it's JUST enthusiast cars and enthusiasts buy what they want, period.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

Come visit calgary and tell me with a straight face our roads are in the top 10. It shook my skyline so bad at 30 kmph that my MAF mount shattered. Sure theres roads of rocks and fields in Russia, and I drive ice and logging roads to work in northern alberta, which are nothing more than grass and snow. But compared to japan, its on the complete opposite side of the scale anywhere you go. I assume they accually pave roads in Ontario. We're still in the stone age here.

When was the last time you claimed something under warrenty? Or anyone here? And how much did you have to pay? If yes and nothing, you are very, very lucky people.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

yeah they do actually pave the roads in ontario. And for the most part they're reasonably smooth. Nothing like japan's glass but far from awful.

They did where I lived in alberta too (banff)... I've been in calgary several times and the roads in the city weren't all that bad. I'm not talking about logging roads :P

Though i'm thinking about going out there for the winter, any work up there for someone with a class 1 license? (but that's a new thread :P)

I've never purchased (nor will) a new car, but I've warrantied parts quite a few times, alternators especially come to mind, as well as tools.

My mom's cavalier had several warranty issues and we never paid out of pocket for them, one even involved us getting a (free of charge!) rental/loaner car from the dealership for a few days.

My frend cengiz has a '07 Z06 that has had an engine and differential replaced under warranty both requireing the car to be down for about a month at a time, they gave him a rental and even REFUNDED the lease payment for the time the car was in the shop.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Let's be realistic, most of the people on this forum own vehicles that they do at least some of their own work on. Many tackle projects that most technitions would fret over. When you own a 15-25+ year old vehicle, we're not the people who are really concerned about warranty. Some people are and some people will only own something that's very new. That's one reason why the majority of new car buyers lease, because they don't want a old vehicle. We're the opposite, we drool over old vehicles. Most people couldn't fathom that a 15 year old vehicle was wonderful or a dream car. Anyone who is having difficulty getting warranty work dones likely does not have a manufacturer warranty and instead purchased one of those butt ramming 3rd party or dealer warranties.

I'm surprised that GM leases Z06s! (certain vehicles are leasable, but will often have a abnormally high monthly payment to encourage financing)

Alak

iTrader: (9)

When my father in law bought my wife her first car, the only rule was it had to be no more than 2 years old. Reason was the total cost of car and repair on a newer model outweighs the cost of sale and repair on older models.

Theres probably work for a Class 1 driver, but everything is pretty much locked in until break up. You have to catch it next season I guess.

Deerfoot is a nightmare, especially down by glenmore and up by barlow trail and blackfoot. I have to detour around side roads when I drive certain cars. It was so bad that last summer my boss' slip tank in his 3/4 ton truck cracked and burst. the city doesnt care about the roads. Its been how many years and it continually gets worse?

When I had to warrenty the Jeep, they wanted us to pay for the damage. Truth was, there was no damage, the transfer case was making a bearing noise. I've used 4x4 all of maybe 4 or 5 times for no longer than 10 minutes or so. It took our lawyer to pan it out. Before that when my miata broke, they wouldn't fix that. Only thing I've ever had sucessfully under warrenty was the battery in my wifes old Acura. They replaced it because it wouldn't hold a charge.

Terrh

iTrader: (7)

there's some complaining around here about the roads but honestly, I can think of very few roads that I can't do the speed limit on because of damage, in fact I can't think of any.... there was one in my town but they just repaved it!

Alak

iTrader: (9)

LOL, here its pretty bad still. Thats my only concern with RHD cars. They often come over with super drift or whatever coil-overs and its rock hard. Sure shakes the bugs out of the system.

I honestly say, bring on the imports. Theres nothing new out thats affordable in any capacity that I would buy. Imports to me are like Muscle cars to baby boomers. They will pay $100,000 for that 69' Camaro, or 70' Cuda. I'll pay whatever for a Straight 6 (or Rotary) Supercar. What little models we did get, died in the mid 90's. And Emmissions dumbed them down. Someday I'll have a Spirit R Rx-7 or R34 Skyline. It sure as hell wont be 40 years from now or I'll be outta this country.

Dr4900n

I believe the Ontario road system is outdated by about 20-25 years.

Not that the government isn't trying to fix it, but look at all the congestion from Toronto, to Hamilton, to Niagara Falls. With so many people commuting it's rediculous.

Depends what part of Canada you live in.

Plcaes like Calgary and BC would be more up to date because of thier recent growth.

Alak

iTrader: (9)

You would think that, but in fact the opposite is true. The Older roads are really bad, and in desperate need of renewal.

However,

They spends most of their time building new overpasses and exchanges in hopes of speeding things up. Like the new Deerfoot Extension and Douglasdale overpass is fantastic.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Last time I drove to T.O. I didn't see a hell-uv-alot of space for more additional lanes on the highway.......its pretty much maxed out. You could add one here nad there for a certain length, but certainly not the entire length of the highway(s). But does this count the ENTRIELY NEW highway (that, yeah, you pay for.....but cmon.......drive through the US, you pay for most every damn highway there haha) that connects hamilton to T.O. and beyond?


Maybe if less people actually took the highway we wouldn't have that traffic problem..........or if 90% knew how to drive without riding the brakes and tailgating......
__________________________

On topic though.....
Ummmmm........yes.........thats an insignificant number. The largest car dealership in Canada, who's down the road from me, sells 5-600 cars per month. Now....THAT's a significant number. BUT There is 8 other used car dealers in my area who sell an anywhere from 30-100 cars per month. And Im DO NOT live a densley populated area whatsoever. Keep in mind these numbers don't even include the dealerships local to me......which Im sure have lower number, but sales nonetheless.

147 or hell......200 cars a month is really small potatoes. Plus, how many of those are actually staying in BC? 20%.....maybe. The rest of the cars, the province simply gets to make a little tax revenue on while they make their way out of province.

And really.....who is the gov't kidding anyway? The more cars we have, the more tax revenue they get by collecting tax on parts, stickers, licensing, all the B.S. associated with it.

It actually makes me sick if you think about it. Jonny B. buys a new car, he pays tax on it. Jonny B's car breaks down, he takes it in for repairs.......which get taxed. The parts used to repair the car are taxed. The car gets traded in to the dealership.......then re-sold, with a little more tax. Then the car gets scrapped. The parts sold off the car get TAXED ONCE MORE!!

The more cars the better for the gov't. CBC probably ran out of other bullshit to write about so they formulated an article........but nonetheless if they're actually thinking about this, give your local MP a backhand for being a douche.

Aviator 902S

It's true the the (current) number of RHD cars entering Canada is miniscule compared to over-all vehicle sales, new and used, in this country. But to say that these pristine cars from Japan don't have the potential to draw away buyers of new cars is fallacy.

New car buyers know they are being ***-raped on purchase price and depreciation--- they're not stupid (not all of them anyway). So why do they buy new? For two reasons primarily:

1. They know what they're getting--- an unmolested car with no history of damage or abuse. Used cars would be a far better bargain if the reasonably-priced ones available in this country were in better over-all condition. But they're not. This is a valid point. (but I still never buy new). If only used cars in excellent condition and with low mileage could somehow be obtained here...
And then they find out about the perfect RHD cars available from Japan. Now THERE'S a viable option!

Dealers must hate this, and my heart bleeds purple **** for them. They have every reason to nip this RHD development in the bud--- before it becomes too big of a problem to their bottom line. Better call Transport Canada...

2. Prestige: Buying things you don't need, with money you don't have, to impress people you don't like. These are the stupid new car buyers, and they will always buy (or more often, lease--- a fool's errand if ever there was one) new vehicles just to keep up with the Joneses. Their motto seems to be "you are what you own." (or appear to own.)

As for Alberta's roads, they are getting better. But this province has a long way to go before its roads and infrastructure is as good as that of say, BC, Quebec and Ontario. Everybody knows that Alberta became debt-free last year. But it did so at the expense of infrastructure, with roads, schools and hospitals taking the brunt of the cuts. The money is now there to rebuild, if only employees weren't so damned hard to come by.

And used car prices in this country are beyond outrage, but no more so than right here in Calgary. Dealer sleaze knows no bounds, and the dealers in this city will stop at nothing to convert yourt money to theirs. The above-mentioned MSRP sticker swap (on new cars) trick is only one example. I now derisively refer to Calgary dealerships as "Home of the $5000 1986 Ford Tempo."

Prices in and around the major centers such as southern Ontario, Quebec and Vancouver tend to be more competitive (but still over-priced) due to population density and a higher percentage of new car buyers vs. used. But the maritimes tend to charge around 15% more, and Albertans can expect to pay 20% more for the same used car available in say, Toronto. Unless of course you live in Calgary, where you'll pay around 25% more. These percentages weren't merely pulled out of my ***--- just send Phil Edmundston (of Lemon Aid fame) an e-mail and ask him.

TD07

I could not give two ***** about RHD car's. As far as I'm concerned they can ban each and every last one of them. The vast majority are in terrible shape, and the addition of the RHD aspect makes them dangerous plain and simple.

And this idea that Transport Canada is folding under pressure from used car dealers? What a joke. It's a niche market people it's not going to make a dent. Put your tin foil hat back on and search for conspiracy's elsewhere.

Aviator 902S

[QUOTE=TD07]

I could not give two ***** about RHD car's. As far as I'm concerned they can ban each and every last one of them. The vast majority are in terrible shape, and the addition of the RHD aspect makes them dangerous plain and simple.

I respect your right to the above opinion, no matter how ill-informed and inaccurate. RHD (and LHD for that matter) is potentially dangerous if you're tailgating and of the fast-and-furious celibate-against-your-will mindset, but for most of us RHD cars are far safer than say, motorcycles. Should bikes be banned?

And this idea that Transport Canada is folding under pressure from used car dealers? What a joke.

Uh, where in any of the above posts does it say TC would fold under pressure from car dealers? It doesn't, and they won't. But car dealers and other special interest groups with their own personal agendas will certainly come out in support of banning these particular imports--- ostensibly because they are "unsafe." What a crock of ****.

It's a niche market people it's not going to make a dent.

Not yet anyway. But the fact that there are those currently lobbying to get rid of them indicates that they want to nip this "problem" in the bud--- before it can become too entrenched and then make a serious dent in the bottom line of many dealers. I say let's nip their ambitions in the bud. BTW, what's your agenda?


Put your tin foil hat back on and search for conspiracy's elsewhere.

That's spelled "conspiracies." The reason conspiracy theories are so popular is because they so often turn out to be justified. A little healthy paranoia is justified, especially when dealing with government entities and special interest groups. They are a bureaucratic cluster **** with the potential to suck all the joy and common sense out of our lives---- if we let them.

TD07

Motorcycles are designed to operate on our road systems. RHD vehicles are NOT. Ill informed? Uh ya I'm ill informed, I guess the steering wheel of a RHD car is actually on the left, not making it more difficult to pass on single lane highway's, or make left turns into on coming traffic. Use your head.



Well if it wasnt said earlier wasnt it what you were getting at? I mean you basically just said Transport Canada will fold under pressure from "special interest" and "car dealers" using "safety concerns" as the reason. What on earth was your problem with that statement?

Quote:

Not yet anyway. But the fact that there are those currently lobbying to get rid of them indicates that they want to nip this "problem" in the bud--- before it can become too entrenched and then make a serious dent in the bottom line of many dealers. I say let's nip their ambitions in the bud. BTW, what's your agenda?

Bullshit plain and simple. I am very good friends with 2 party's who between them own the vast majority of new/used car dealerships as well as a handfull of strickly used car dealerships in town. They laugh at the idea your proposing. 99.9999999999999% of people looking to purchase a used car will NOT even consider RHD for many reasons cheif among them the safety concerns you find non exsistant.

Thanks for the spelling lesson, I'll make a note of that lol. Here's the big problem with the VAST majority of conspiracy theories, you would do well to listen up. The majority of these theories require the indivuduals at the heart of them to be more intelligent or as intelligent as you. This is rarely if ever the case. The average intelligence is low, very low, and 50% of the population is less intelligent than that.

I'm scared for you Brett i thought it was just a tin foil hat but I am begining to think you might have some coat hangers proped out of yours as well.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

New car buyers inparticular are not all that car savvy....thats why they buy new. They don't want to deal with car stuff.....so why would a buyer from that market decide to go out of his way and deal with the entire importing process to save 2 grand and get a possibly decent car? That makes no sense.

The new car buyer buys new and is aware of the hit he or she takes. They don't care about the money as long as they don't have to deal with the car.

Used cars as in....FB's?..........FC's?....cars more than 15 years old? Yeah they're beat......but so are half the ones from japan at that age. Sure there's clean ones out there, but there is here too. Or do you mean used as in 90% of the "used" cars that are sold now-a-days? Have you looked around a real nice used car dealership lately? With most lease's now (they get turned over real fast by the yuppies buying new) you can grab a car thats 2 years old with 20-30,000kms for 1/2 to 3/4 of the cost new. And you don't have to **** with importing.

If you don't believe me, go to www.haldimandmotors.com thats the used car dealer I quoted in my last post. Compare prices and mileage to new.

Sure, for people like us - the enthusiasts - who can stand to deal with that stuff. Most people are afriad to buy a used car from a car lot because they think he's pulling one over. You think the same people would toss 10-15K at a car on the other side of the world? Sight unseen????

The biggest threat to used car dealers is the other dealer down the street who beat their price by 100 bucks. Importing cars didn't come out 3 years ago........this has been happening for a loooong time.


OK, the MSRP sticker swap....I really know nothing about nor have ever heard of and if it is actually the cse, then report the dealership to their respective mothership because thats called "price fixing" and aginst the law.

But think about it this way. You say Calgary is the "home of the $5000 '86 Temp" Thats all fair I suppose.....but has the dealer who is selling the $5000 tempo still around? If he is then the majority consumers in that area are obviously not turned off by the pricing. If the dealer(s) at fault were all out of business and bankrupt then it would appear consumers are taking their business elsewhere....

I have no doubt that your observation of higher car prices in calgary or alberta in general is accurate. Im simply saying that prices everywhere vary and that car sales are a consumer driven market, not the other way around. If you put an exorberant price on a car, but it still sells like hotcakes, who's at fault? The dealer or the idiots paying too much??

And at any rate, none of the pricing issues of used or new cars will EVER affect importing in the manor being brought up here. There are simply too many variables with importing not to mention the fact that 90% of consumers of used and new cars couldn't be bothered with the hassle......evidenced in the lack of trust of people who can shake their hand, let alone people you never even see and cars you can't even touch.

EDIT:

IMHO the only reason this is even appearing in a newspaper is because BC has provincial insurance. If they're going to have these "dangerous" RHD cars on the road they don't want to lose any money....

Insurance companies are much much closer to gov't (especially when the insurer in question is PART of the gov't) then used and new car dealers. They (insurers) would be the only ones to gripe in this matter because they stand to potentially lose some revenue if RHD accidents become previlent.

However Im sure when they finish they're research they'll find that the majority of RHD cars do not rack up the same average mileage, do not see the same amount of "duty" as regular ol' what-have-you and that they are, in general, looked after more so than a regular car because their owners take pride in the car.