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I could use some advice about a builder

I could use some advice about a builder

Old 12-12-16, 02:40 PM
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We supplied EVERYTHING, except for spark plugs, that was talked about, and that was paid for!!!

Tired of dealing with what? Us posting up a reply? Because that is what the phone conversation was about this morning? Wanting us to take down our replay because it made you look bad. Which is does not.

We are trying to do what we can! But we have not been told what you would like except for apologize.

And again we are sorry!

So the free turbos were not included?

Actually we did include them when we sent the free set to BNR as cores!
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Old 12-12-16, 03:10 PM
  #27  
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They WERE promised though, right?
When it came time for us to open the box and find no turbos, we called and were told that you just sold your last set. If they were good enough to sell, why not honor your promise and send them to us? June 2nd was a week BEFORE we ordered. Seems like we got bait and switched.

I have a set of cores from Pettit I could have sent to you or BNR with a little communication. No one ever mentioned it. In fact I still have my old REW,. I have a feeling that our $500 deposit deal is overwith too though, so I'm most likely stuck with it.

I still never got an oil pan. We are tired of excuses and blame passing instead of working with us to make this right. 100 engines at 6500 bucks is 650,000 dollars. You definitely have the resources to treat your customers better.

I have $120 sunken into spark plugs. $40 to you and $40X2 to Atkins. Sending the sparkplugs that we paid for in June isn't going above OR beyond.



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Last edited by Natey; 12-12-16 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 12-12-16, 09:38 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection View Post
It's always a lot more interesting once you get the other side of the story, and then most of the bandwagoners fall off and get quiet (rightfully so). Many or most of these times the buyer/customer misunderstood, or made assumptions, or heard things they wanted to hear but weren't told, or didn't hear things they actually were told, or just had an idea in their head that didn't get thoroughly communicated to the builder/shop so that it could be completed in the job. These cars are very technical and costly to work on so it's easy for that to happen. It's also easy for buyers to expect a lump sum all inclusive price for a job up front which is basically impossible to give because you really have no idea what you are working with or what the job needs before you are in the middle of it. Buyers seem to dislike being "nickel and dimed" by being charged for each part and material that goes into their build project, but who did they expect to pay for the parts going into their project to begin with? As long as the shop is willing to provide an itemized list of hours and parts/materials that goes into their build upon request, there should not be any claims of "shady business" just because the customer is unfamiliar with the prices of the parts going into their build.

The general rule of thumb should be that if a shop is still in business after more than a few years they are doing something right, and while not perfect, are most likely not out to screw anyone or do 'shady business practices". Yet we find that the forum lynch mobs still assemble at the slightest mention of possible wrongdoing by a shop.
in all honesty though, i think he is more upset that he paid 7 grand and still doesn't have a running car yet half a year later(plus the apparent 3 thousand for labor at the shop for a total of 10Gs).

that's a lot of money to drop to just walk out into your garage and see your non running car sitting there.

in fact, i've never had one customer spend that much money in one sitting(the complete job i did for him over 10 years ago was less than $3k, including engine R+R and i still charge the same prices i did back then), if they did you can bet i would be doing my best to get a simple short/long block engine job done and back to them. granted there's a few items that do jack up the price exponentially like the harness, injectors and additional long block assembly labor.

i can see that the builder isn't totally at fault for the costs being so high, i also can see that the buyer would be upset that he didn't receive a complete product and it took 4-5 times as long as it should have.

my advice would be the builder should just send out the pan, plugs and whatever else was owed including any deposits paid for something not received. neither of you will be totally satisfied but it seems a step in the right direction.

i don't quite understand the turbo situation though, so i don't know where you can go with that. if the builder said he would provide turbos and then didn't, well that is probably the main reason why i sided with the buyer here, i also know him personally and can't see him making that up.

Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-12-16 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 12-12-16, 10:38 PM
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I paid 6562.08 to Addicted, labor included. Tyler will send me a bill too once the car's up and running, but everything from Addicted was covered by the 6500 bucks. The 1800 for the turbos was sent directly to BNR from Addicted. So $8362.08 total out of my pocket before all the sensors and gaskets from Atkins and Mazdatrix and before paying the installer. Plus whatever a stock oil pan costs from Mazdatrix.
Ben, thank you for everything. It's been nice to get a couple answers from a third party rotary engine specialist with no interest in the deal, and I definitely respect your advice, opinion and knowledge.

Mods, Addicted, everyone. I think I may as well close this thread and let it fade away. It's not going anywhere and I don't think anything is going to change. Everyone involved is unhappy and that's just how it is. I didn't intend for this thread to go where it went. I don't want to "bash" anyone and I definitely don't want to affect Addicted's business. They have tons of happy customers right here on this club. My experience was different and more issues keep popping up every day, but what can I do? One out of a hundred ain't bad, I guess.

After losing sleep and tripping on my car for all this time, I just want to put this behind me and get my RX-7 on the road. Mine is the only FD in my entire town and I miss driving it. I miss LOOKING at it. It's been gone since February and the way things are going, it'll probably be a solid 1 year out of my hands before it's back in my possession.
It sucks that it came to this but it is what it is.

If anyone thinks it's a bad idea to close this crap-fest down let me know. Otherwise I'll close it in the morning.

Last edited by Natey; 12-12-16 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 12-12-16, 11:39 PM
  #30  
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To be fair to the shop, IMO you should leave it open. Let's see how all this plays out...... if you don't want to affect their business, closing it down as things are now isn't the way to go. My opinion, since you asked for it
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Old 12-12-16, 11:47 PM
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Sounds good.
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Old 12-13-16, 11:28 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Natey View Post
That post from the 10th was out of hand. If she cussed you out, it's because we are sick of dealing with this crap..

His post on the 10th was about the most professional response I have seen from a shop on this forum in a long long time in this situation. He admitted mistakes were made, I cant defend that. I just looked at the receipt though and you got a whole lot for the money. Have another shop quote you the same build, the price will be higher and will likely take just as long or longer.

Looks like some communication issues along the way but I can't even begin to understand why you guys are upset with Addicted's initial response on the 10th? It was about as level headed and rational as possible.

If a customer called cussing me and not acting like an adult Im not sure I would have handled it as well as they did. Time delays are always frustrating but pretty much the norm in sourcing stuff for old cars.
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Old 12-13-16, 11:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by djseven View Post
His post on the 10th was about the most professional response I have seen from a shop on this forum in a long long time in this situation. He admitted mistakes were made, I cant defend that. I just looked at the receipt though and you got a whole lot for the money. Have another shop quote you the same build, the price will be higher and will likely take just as long or longer.

Looks like some communication issues along the way but I can't even begin to understand why you guys are upset with Addicted's initial response on the 10th? It was about as level headed and rational as possible.

If a customer called cussing me and not acting like an adult Im not sure I would have handled it as well as they did. Time delays are always frustrating but pretty much the norm in sourcing stuff for old cars.
i'm quite sure he explained it already, he was promised a turbo but that was not placed on the order and then conveniently forgotten about and where alot of the argument back and forth is coming from. next is the engine was incomplete and missing the oil pan, it would also need engine mounts for the pan to have been installed on an FD engine, so the long block was not completed. i'd chalk the latter up to the builder not bothering to ask if he wanted the pan and mounts/if he had one he planned to install on his own. yes, the numbers aren't far off but after spending that much you'd start to feel nickel and dimed for a used oil pan after spending $500 for the misc parts on the engine, wouldn't you?

the turbo issue most likely only came about because of the pan, spark plugs and the long timeframe with lacking communication, topped by the fact that he said he sold the turbos just before shipping his engine to someone else instead of giving them to him which i can also picture on the buyer's end as a failed promise to make some additional money instead of keeping a customer happy and fulfilling something based on the initial verbal agreement. if it was ONLY the turbos that was the issue, i kinda doubt this thread would be here, good condition twins aren't all that easy to come by and i'm sure he'd still be annoyed that they were sold just before his engine shipped but likely would have bitten the bullet and bought the BNRs anyways. i see numerous things here, not just one.

even if the seller said he "would try to include the 99's", had them and sold them to a later customer, you would also get the feeling that it was just an incentive to get you to use them that was removed, again why? money? a friendship? memory lapse? i don't know the answer to that one, but you see why he is getting the feeling that he got the short end on that promise. if it was a very loosely placed promise i would suggest to stop making those claims as part of a sale, at least not as a freebie and something that can be included in the invoice.

Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-13-16 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution View Post
i'm quite sure he explained it already, he was promised a turbo but that was not placed on the order and then conveniently forgotten about and where alot of the argument back and forth is coming from. next is the engine was incomplete and missing the oil pan, it would also need engine mounts for the pan to have been installed on an FD engine, so the long block was not completed. i'd chalk the latter up to the builder not bothering to ask if he wanted the pan and mounts/if he had one he planned to install on his own. yes, the numbers aren't far off but after spending that much you'd start to feel nickel and dimed for a used oil pan after spending $500 for the misc parts on the engine, wouldn't you?

the turbo issue most likely only came about because of the pan, spark plugs and the long timeframe with lacking communication, topped by the fact that he said he sold the turbos just before shipping his engine to someone else instead of giving them to him which i can also picture on the buyer's end as a failed promise to make some additional money instead of keeping a customer happy and fulfilling something based on the initial verbal agreement. if it was ONLY the turbos that was the issue, i kinda doubt this thread would be here, good condition twins aren't all that easy to come by and i'm sure he'd still be annoyed that they were sold just before his engine shipped but likely would have bitten the bullet and bought the BNRs anyways. i see numerous things here, not just one.

even if the seller said he "would try to include the 99's", had them and sold them to a later customer, you would also get the feeling that it was just an incentive to get you to use them that was removed, again why? money? a friendship? memory lapse? i don't know the answer to that one, but you see why he is getting the feeling that he got the short end on that promise. if it was a very loosely placed promise, i would suggest to stop making those claims as part of a sale.
In post 25 on this thread it is left pretty open ended that he "could" send a set of used turbos if the buyer wanted but they would likely be useless as we know most stock turbos are. No mention of 99 spec turbos that I can see but maybe it is in another message.

I can see the thread title now if the turbos had been included "Need advice, Paid $6500.00 for a long block that took 5 months to arrive and the turbos are junk"

Addicted clearly made some mistakes and look like they are owning up to it. If someone called cussing me though, you lose all credibility and any empathy you would have received from me. I would have been pumped if someone sent off my irons to be resurfaced and nitrided even if it took an extra couple months. I know Chips prices and they aren't cheap.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:44 PM
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EDITED.

I just want closure. The timeline of this thread and it's contents speaks for itself, but only if you read it.





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Last edited by Natey; 12-13-16 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 12-13-16, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by djseven View Post
Addicted clearly made some mistakes and look like they are owning up to it. If someone called cussing me though, you lose all credibility and any empathy you would have received from me. I would have been pumped if someone sent off my irons to be resurfaced and nitrided even if it took an extra couple months. I know Chips prices and they aren't cheap.
if someone who waited 5 additional months and shortchanged on their itemization called cussing you out and you hung up on them, you wouldn't be in business for very long.

I'm sure both parties are just tired of dealing with one another, it happens, but it sounds like some obvious promises weren't fulfilled here and the sooner they get taken care of the sooner this would be resolved. no one likes to pick up the phone and be attacked, no one also likes to open a box and find half a product either.

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Old 06-07-17, 04:24 PM
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WTB clean oil pan and brace, Banzai or otherwise

Last edited by Natey; 06-07-17 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 05-30-18, 11:43 AM
  #38  
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My car is officially back on the road as of last night. Over 2 years and over $20k later.


Huge thanks to Sakebomb Garage guys for helping to end this nightmare.
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Old 05-31-18, 02:31 PM
  #39  
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Congrats man!!!! I just read this entire thread, interesting stuff.... so sorry for your nightmare and glad it is over now....
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Old 06-02-18, 11:40 AM
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I'm stoked to have my car back for sure! Those guys at SakeBomb went above and beyond the call of duty to help me. I can't recommend that shop and the goods they offer enough. My car was in their shop for over a month as they went through the whole thing. I'm not going to mention how many broken parts and shady shortcuts they found, but I will mention that there is still at least one honest, high-end rotary shop in the US.

My dyno numbers are embarrassing, but that'll be dealt with. At least it's running and driving again.
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