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Havoc's - Aussie built wide body, 13B-RE powered by gtX3582
G’day all.
I felt like making a bit of build thread here (as each time I link people to ausrotary they don’t have access.) The full thread is here AusRotary.com • Login This is just a bit of background to my car. I’m a big fan of pictures to tell the story But I’ve had the car since about 1999 or so. It was a 1986 FC3S Series 4 NA I know most ppl on here don't like wings, wide bodies, graphics etc etc. So really if you have nothing constructive to say... please don’t say it. So Stage 1: Naturally aspirated, nothing exciting. Engine ended up corroding itself out about 3 years after I bought it. Was really just a good excuse to change the engine to turbo. So Stage 2: Stock 13B (import engine) (really bad compression 65 front and 70 rear) Turbo was a hi flow FMIC Microtech mt8 4x720 secondaries, 2x550 primaries (040 fuel pump) 3" exhaust all the way through - splits to 2x2.5 at the rear I think I was pushing about 260 rwhp at the time at 14 psi, which was a huge step above the NA block. Going down to the drags ran a 13.4 and that was with intercooler pipes blowing off . Also had a habit of doing diff mounts I think I killed about 3 in 6 months. Stage 3: Basically just worked on the interior Sound System:Different seats (+ re-trimmed the rear one) All new carpets Sunroof all fixed Custom centre console 2x6.5 inch co-axial’s in each door Stage 4:2x12's (crossfire BMF) 1x1000 D (1000 wrms for the subs) 1X602 (2x300 wrms each door) Extra 1 Farrah Cap.. Was good for 143DB at 62hz I was living in London at the time (was there for about 2 years traveling and working) and still always had the bug. So every now and again I would buy shit for the FC on ebay, get it sent to my brother and he would put it in storage for me. So at the time I bought a T04e with a 60-1 compressor,1.15 rear housing, Manifold WG etc and sent it to my bother to get it all installed. Car then got dyno’ed for 340 rwhp at 14 psi (no porting) compression was shit and it lasted a hell of a thrashing ! Ended up killing 3 NA gear boxes before changing to a turbo box. Which has been fine ever since. From that point I bought some rims and realised they wouldn’t fit without a wide body, so the saga of building a wide body FC started. I then got sponsored so the airbrushing then got introduced to advertise the panel beater. https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/...july053oq0.jpg https://img221.imageshack.us/img221/...scf0012if4.jpg https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/...1010097jq7.jpg https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/...1010096um4.jpg https://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2818/p1010099xa8.jpg https://img146.imageshack.us/img146/...1010094nq3.jpg https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9118/p1010077eh7.jpg https://img213.imageshack.us/img213/...cf0013hg4.jpgv https://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5743/tsetup4pf4.jpg Turbo b4 it was all rebuild https://img489.imageshack.us/img489/...rx7dynots0.jpg |
So put the new rears on to make sure they fit. you will notice the orginal 215's in the back ground :)
https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...mgp0781gn7.jpg https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...mgp0782rz5.jpg https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/...mgp1677ss4.jpg https://img360.imageshack.us/img360/...mgp1685jd2.jpg https://img248.imageshack.us/img248/...mgp1682ca3.jpg https://img267.imageshack.us/img267/...mgp1680gr6.jpg https://img472.imageshack.us/img472/...mgp1687fy8.jpg https://img168.imageshack.us/img168/...mgp1688fy9.jpg |
https://img507.imageshack.us/img507/...2007002dy5.jpg
https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/...7003vr7yb9.jpg https://img509.imageshack.us/img509/...867180f041.jpg https://img214.imageshack.us/img214/...7004bg5ni3.jpg https://img179.imageshack.us/img179/...7006ol9dp7.jpg https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/...7007au7nx4.jpg https://img522.imageshack.us/img522/...4ce11234af.jpg https://img503.imageshack.us/img503/...7008dc7wx9.jpg https://img503.imageshack.us/img503/...b2c5edfee3.jpg https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/...2007272wd9.jpg https://img141.imageshack.us/img141/...2007278oy3.jpg https://img145.imageshack.us/img145/...2007282bd3.jpg |
https://img138.imageshack.us/img138/...2007285kt7.jpg
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/...2007374rn2.jpg https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/...2007375ia7.jpg https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/...2007506zr9.jpg https://img206.imageshack.us/img206/748/p6270548rs1.jpg https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/...6270567pk2.jpg https://img514.imageshack.us/img514/852/p6270572nu7.jpg https://img47.imageshack.us/img47/1535/p6270582xk9.jpg https://img261.imageshack.us/img261/...6270599cg5.jpg https://img383.imageshack.us/img383/...6280626dj5.jpg https://img386.imageshack.us/img386/...mgp4448np8.jpg By antman01 at 2008-06-13 https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/715/p6280614tl1.jpg |
Stage 5:
Once getting the car back from panel and paint (3 years later…. ) id changed plans and decided to make the engine back match the rest of the panel work. So I: • Pulled and sold the old engine • Hid all the wiring (full rewire) • Bought a 13B-RE • Upgraded Fuel system • Haltech E8 • M&W CDI ignition system • Side mounts Alt • Ceramic coat all the intake pipework. • (reused the old turbo) • Painted engine bay • Installed it all back in. • Davis Craig electric water pump and controller. • All Defi sensors and gauges. I then ran about like this for basically 2 years before the engine let go one day. I was running 350 rwhp at 12psi on a (20 yr old turbo) https://img528.imageshack.us/img528/...6280615jl5.jpg https://img301.imageshack.us/img301/...8095383pu1.jpg https://img126.imageshack.us/img126/...7976439jd6.jpg https://img114.imageshack.us/img114/...8048986ad4.jpg http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2046/p2120043hp0.jpg http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=3785 http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/484...7426809rp3.jpg http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/5...3720660yc5.jpg http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7...edarkerhz4.jpg http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8...7799113ty4.jpg http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=10619 http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=10664 |
I see someone obsess with blue/purple lol
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http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2395/dscn3991l.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3452/dscn3994.jpg http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=25738 http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/9425/dscn7513.jpg http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3059/dscn7545.jpg http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4...382engine1.jpg http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=31747 |
Stage 6:
So before the engine let go I decided to change the turbo.So I bought a gtX3582 from turboblown and waited to install it. The engine then let go So I rebuild the Cosmo donk. At the same time decided on.[LIST][*]Extreme rotary extended ports[*]Extreme rotary exhaust porting
After that I put on the turbo and had it send off to get a 4" dump put on and the water lines fittings welded on (I cant weld for shit) |
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9625/dsc02181g.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1765/dsc02195i.jpg http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8656/dsc02214il.jpg http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5901/dsc02305py.jpg http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=35075 https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V...0/DSC02633.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--...0/DSC02642.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-G...120710_303.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w...120711_318.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N...120712_346.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N...0/DSC02975.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-L...0/DSC03017.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...0/IMAG0133.jpg |
Stage 7: yet to come
New seats.... Idea's ? New rims. I really want something with deep dish and concave. So yeh thats about it. Funny being able to post 8yrs of playing in 3 minutes :) Cheers Anth some vids on you tube under Mantrx7 |
Hurry up and dyno! Everyone is dying to see what 20+psi does on the P trim GTX35R...
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hahaha will do Elliot, just hard to get the km's up on it when I can only really use it on weekend, but got some cruises lined up which should speed things up a bit !
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get some bride vios III
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cruise it down to my end of town and i will hook up the PC and tweak that idle a little more ..
idle vacuums indicate its still on the rich side methinks you may also just have to check if you need a second restricter for the turbo oil feed as your coping nearly 100 psi cold oil pressure i have found that even stock old school bearing turbos can benefit from turning down the oil pressure by welding up the banjo bolt holes and drilling them to 2mm i expect even a GT turbo ( which has an internal restricter AFAIK ) will like the extra knock down in oil pressure tell tale will be that smoking while you have 90 + psi.. but none when the oil is warm and dropped to 40 psi PS if you look in the haltech forum you will find i have listed the oz e8 loom OMP colours and you should also try re-spading that connector accordingly and plugging it back in and seeing if the unit hunts |
Originally Posted by Broke_A_Baller
(Post 11251327)
get some bride vios III
Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 11251331)
down the oil pressure by welding up the banjo bolt holes and drilling them to 2mm
Originally Posted by bumpstart
(Post 11251331)
if you look in the haltech forum you will find i have listed the oz e8 loom OMP colours
PS: the cold start enrichement has been spot on (nice having a engine that finally start with one turn over) and did a bit to the post start enrichement and thats been ok as well. I just need to find some : time + good road + NO COPS ! |
That sucks I'm only 5'8" so they are near perfect for me ahha :)
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love the car wish my engine bay looked like that
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any idea when it will get on the dyno again?
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Thanks.
um not sure, our fuel here is shit compared to your US fuel. But since its now a rebuilt engine I would like to turn the boost up a bit to suit. Im going to be happy with anything 400, and I bet my bottom dollar the curve will be so much fatter then my old turbo I cant wait. |
1 Attachment(s)
one from the weekend
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https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3...trx7+front.JPG
One from the weekend. (did a good 500km in 2 days) But Ive now got 900+ km on the car now, so its booked in for a tune next Tuesday. Will keep everyone posted :) -Anth |
:icon_tup:
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Elliot, I only with I had your fuels down here :) you yanks get so much better results then us Aussies.
Will let you know the results :) -Anth |
good job keep it up
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I'm a huge fan of your engine bay, especially the wire tuck. Easily one of my favorite RX-7s. Well done body kit and functional yet visually appealing ride height. Not too many guys left that have been in the FC game this long and still progressing.
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Love the work you have done. Where did you get the bonnet?
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Originally Posted by Flash
(Post 11318808)
I'm a huge fan of your engine bay, especially the wire tuck. Easily one of my favorite RX-7s. Well done body kit and functional yet visually appealing ride height. Not too many guys left that have been in the FC game this long and still progressing.
Originally Posted by Stefan52
(Post 11319001)
Love the work you have done. Where did you get the bonnet?
Anyway Cars at rotomotion for a tune... so say I'm excited and Nervous is a understatement ! :) |
ok Dyno run was a fail...
They were doing the power runs and its spiking up to 28 psi ! they think they found the issue (fucked braided line somewhere) so their going to replace it and have another crack tomorrow. |
Engine still ok ?
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yeh sounds like it, they didn't seem to stressed, will wait to hear the results tomorrow.
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I would still ask for a compression test...
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Had a chat to this this monring. They replaced the line and its still doing it.
So looks like its a wastegate runner placement / manifold issue. Looks like this setup (new block and turbo) just flow way so much more their's a issue, where as my old turbo and stock block never found the limit to the manifold. So if I have time and its not to hot over Christmas (is meant to be 109 farinheight on Christmas day here !) I might try and pull it all off, get the manifold tweaked (might even have to run dual WG's that I never thought would ever be required) and see how we go. So the build takes another ... direction :P -Anth |
I've seen that before :). Wastegate runners need to be in the path of direct flow on a single wastegate. Put in some race gas and let's see what it does at 28psi. :)
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hahaha, lets get this issue sorted first and then we can play :)
Graph shows it fairly well. I'll chat to my fabricator just need to reconfigure the WG runner locations. (or run dual WG's I guess) https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-y...oost+spike.JPG Will keep everyone posted :) |
Its definitely the manifold design. Isn't it funny how many people on and off the forums are running a similar design without any boost creep? Just goes to show you how poorly setup most people's cars are...
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Aggreed,
So Ive being doing some reading, I haven’t spoken to my fabricator yet, I will in the New Year, but I thought I would ask some quick questions. Is there normally an issue with the WG runner location? Or just a blockage of flow of the WG runners? (at were is collects or the WG ?) It does look like the original manifold I’m running is a “china spec” of some sort, in saying that it’s been running fine until now for the past 7+ years and until now I’ve never had an issue. It still a bit confused that it’s now generating this issue at such low rpm. Even with a new block and better turbo = more exhaust flow. It also has a smaller exhaust 0.85 housing (at 200 hp) that now got a boost creep issue, compared to a to4e at 350hp at 7500 rpm at 13psi with no boost creep? (which would of had 2x the flow )But it did have a 1.15 exhaust housing and only a 3” dump (new dump is 4” now) So I’ll check the WG and the pumping (it is opening currently as it’s got a screamer on the dyno) But I guess theirs 3 solutions and I’m curious what the best is, what’s cheapest, and what just won’t work. (Considering I know I could just get a new one fabricated but I’d like to just modify the one I have) Original: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z...27/Capture.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i.../ORINGINAL.JPG Similar with view from top https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-y...tManifold2.jpg Option 1: Keep existing WG runner locations Cut end off existing WG runner pipes before the merge Redirect 2 new WG pipes and run duel WG’s (Cost – $400 for another 40mm WG, $200 Fab, $100 new braided lines and fittings for 2 WG’s) https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j...7/OPTION+1.JPG Option 2: Cut off existing WG runners. Seal up old openings. Have new fabricated runners put on. Have it still merge into one WG. (Cost – $400 Fab ?) https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d...7/OPTION+2.JPG Option 3: Cut off existing WG runners. Seal up old openings. Have new fabricated runners put on. Have a WG runner for each and run dual WG’s (Cost – $400 for another 40mm WG, $400 Fab, $100 new braided lines and fittings for 2 WG’s) https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e...7/OPTION+3.JPG Any other idea's solutions are most welcome. As its a right hand drive car clearance is a prick ! :) And before anyone says its your crappy WG, its not that setup any more, its a tial 44 MRV. |
There's pics floating around the forum here of people cutting some of these ebay manifolds open and finding the holes leading to the wastegate tubes the size of a dime at best and they look like they where just blown open with an oxy/ace torch. Wouldn't doubt that would be a good culprit to your boost creep issue apart from the noted poor wastegate tube takeoff locations.
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Its not., its good open gantries that have all been die grinder and cleaned up.
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Both options 1 and 2 should work assuming the new tube for the rear rotor(blue) connects to the outside radius of the main bend( So if you looked directly into the inlet of the rear main runner, the WG entrance would be a direct shot). The main problem with your current manifold is the w/g runners connect to the main pipes @ right angles to the direction of main flow. The wastegate runners need prioritization. Option 3 will for definitely work again assuming the new pipe meets above criteria. The reason you are seeing this problem now is you moved to a 4" downpipe. I have seen this scenario countless times infact I've got a 2nd gen here currently that has the exact same problem. I thought I sent you a 1.0 housing for your TDX61?
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boost coming back on that radical with that tune isn't from creep.. come on, it's making 200 at nearly 20psi. even with a good tune i'd be looking more at a hanging up wastegate or improperly setup boost controller seeing how it is ramping up as if the WG is closing back up or just too small.
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Originally Posted by Turblown
(Post 11322207)
Both options 1 and 2 should work assuming the new tube for the rear rotor(blue) connects to the outside radius of the main bend( So if you looked directly into the inlet of the rear main runner, the WG entrance would be a direct shot). The main problem with your current manifold is the w/g runners connect to the main pipes @ right angles to the direction of main flow. The wastegate runners need prioritization. Option 3 will for definitely work again assuming the new pipe meets above criteria. The reason you are seeing this problem now is you moved to a 4" downpipe. I have seen this scenario countless times infact I've got a 2nd gen here currently that has the exact same problem. I thought I sent you a 1.0 housing for your TDX61?
I put compressed air into the feed line (off the turbo pickup) and the WG is opening all fine (can hear it click open and close as required) - I thought it wouldnt untill the boost controller had power ? But regardless thats still not the issue is it, its flow. (we all know its opening just overboosting) So it has to be runners. Ive attached some other pick's. I think I dont need to modify the rear rotor pipe, it comes off at 90 to the side of the flow, that should be fine (enough other manifolds are like this - and yes I know it would be nice to come more angled into the flow, but it will hit the dump pipe.) The other that comes off the front rotor is actually squashed a bit, as that's were the manifold pipe size gets reduced down to suit the split paulse in the turbo flange. So that has a reduced flow area. Im thinking I cut that one off. and get a new WG runner that comes almost directly off the top of the runner as it comes out of the engine. Ill just run another WG regardless I think. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...k/DSCN1780.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l...k/DSCN1782.JPG Can I ask why a 4" dump would make it flow less (as it needs more out the WG ?) I still want to go for a drive tomorrow (well after the work christmas party hangover goes away) and test to see what rpm I do at 110 and 130 in 4th. because to think it spools up nearly 35km/h sooner then my last turbo is stupidly good ! :) https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-S...tegate%2B3.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-h...tegate%2B5.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J...stegat%2B6.JPG https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...k/DSCN7051.JPG |
Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution
(Post 11322208)
boost coming back on that radical with that tune isn't from creep.. come on, it's making 200 at nearly 20psi.
(comparing to my old 60-1 dyno in 4th gear) http://www.ausrotary.com/download/file.php?id=39205
Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution
even with a good tune
Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution
i'd be looking more at a hanging up wastegate or improperly setup boost controller seeing how it is ramping up as if the WG is closing back up or just too small.
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Again the problem is the waste-gate runners connection angles to the main runners. The problem was hidden before with a small exhaust system with too much exhaust back pressure, and a poorly sealing engine. Off the top of my head I can count 5 manifolds I had to fix that did the exact same thing. I ended up adding a 2nd Tial 44mm and the problem went away. The first two cars were not over 300rwhp around 4000rpms either( seeing 25/30psi). I've even seen a Tial 60mm overboost with bad runners!( only a single 2" length runner that was around 2.75" diameter).
I would disconnect the boost controller, and run just WG spring pressure to make sure its not a boost controller issue. I assumed you were not using a boost controller before these posts.... |
before doing all that runner work, i'd take the wastegate off and bolt on a pipe that exits somewhere to the side/back.
then take it for a run. if it's a runner issue/restriction, wouldn't it still creep? |
Originally Posted by Clubuser
(Post 11322702)
before doing all that runner work, i'd take the wastegate off and bolt on a pipe that exits somewhere to the side/back.
then take it for a run. if it's a runner issue/restriction, wouldn't it still creep? |
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Well dropped the car off down at my mechanic so can hopefully get all this over boosted sorted.
Gone a bit of an over the top solution, but should be fine. I bought another Tail 44 off gumtree ($200 !) guy didnt really know what it was :P Went for a bit of a thrash last night to see if it did it all on the road and it does. 100 km is a bit under 4000 rpm (nearly full boost in 4th starting from about 3500 rpm) then at about 6000 rpm it start to creep. so will see is this fix's it. (fucking better !) dont know many setup thats need dual Tial 44mm's. Othersie fuck it will run 28psi on E85 :P |
Awesome build !
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i'm not one of those guys that likes the wide body panels and wings and such, but i'm also not one to shit in your chocolate just because i can. i really like the way the car turned out - the color is bad-ass! i even like the "peeling metal" graphics (though not really a fan of the trails). overall i think your car is really nice.
i hope you get the wastegate/boost issues worked out soon and are able to start enjoying this thing the way it was meant to be enjoyed. good luck. |
Good choice! You won't be disappointed.
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