CosmoTT's full bridge port 13BT build thread
02-03-12, 09:49 PM
#106
looking like it will survive another day, for now.
while checking timing something is going on in the ignition circuits, timing is too far advanced for both L and T for the CAS positioned properly and there is a split between L and T even when everything is zeroed out. first time i have run into this issue with the microtech yet so i have some diagnostics to do.
don't recall this issue before as i know i have timed this engine more than once, i do recall the CAS sitting in an unusual position but it always ran fine regardless but has always bothered me. i suppose better to find out now than later...
basically it's advancing timing about 35* for the leading which explains the responsiveness of it from a dig on the short test drives around the building.
could be something simple with the dynatek or something more intricate like a wiring issue for the CAS pickups, microtech has released several different papers so i might have used the incorrect wiring color scheme paper for this particular unit as it was second hand and they have changed some color wires over the years.
anyways, hoping i stumbled across the root of the issue but can't see why it never presented itself before.
while checking timing something is going on in the ignition circuits, timing is too far advanced for both L and T for the CAS positioned properly and there is a split between L and T even when everything is zeroed out. first time i have run into this issue with the microtech yet so i have some diagnostics to do.
don't recall this issue before as i know i have timed this engine more than once, i do recall the CAS sitting in an unusual position but it always ran fine regardless but has always bothered me. i suppose better to find out now than later...
basically it's advancing timing about 35* for the leading which explains the responsiveness of it from a dig on the short test drives around the building.
could be something simple with the dynatek or something more intricate like a wiring issue for the CAS pickups, microtech has released several different papers so i might have used the incorrect wiring color scheme paper for this particular unit as it was second hand and they have changed some color wires over the years.
anyways, hoping i stumbled across the root of the issue but can't see why it never presented itself before.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-03-12 at 09:55 PM.
02-03-12, 10:58 PM
#108
timing trim is at 0 and the timing gauge is sitting at 0 appropriately.
CAS wiring is fine at the CAS end and matches the color wiring. will double check at the ECU end to be sure some hack didn't put them in the wrong spots. but really doubt that's the issue as the timing marks aren't reversed or anything wonky like that.
scratching my head over this one. digging out the ECU now to continuity test some wires..
CAS wiring is fine at the CAS end and matches the color wiring. will double check at the ECU end to be sure some hack didn't put them in the wrong spots. but really doubt that's the issue as the timing marks aren't reversed or anything wonky like that.
scratching my head over this one. digging out the ECU now to continuity test some wires..
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-03-12 at 11:03 PM.
02-10-12, 11:23 PM
#109
still working out the ignition issue, narrowed down to the dynatek leading system. will be messing with some of the configurations to narrow it down further. worst case the dynatek will have to be removed and used at a later time when some configurations are changed around.
the leading system is advancing timing about 30-40 degrees and further advances even when the timing is locked when increasing RPMs so there is some sort of feedback issue going on or i'm just dumb and the reading the labels on the cdi box upside down(kidding, assuming the toggles are supposed to point towards the proper respective tagged position...).
the leading system is advancing timing about 30-40 degrees and further advances even when the timing is locked when increasing RPMs so there is some sort of feedback issue going on or i'm just dumb and the reading the labels on the cdi box upside down(kidding, assuming the toggles are supposed to point towards the proper respective tagged position...).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-10-12 at 11:25 PM.
02-10-12, 11:37 PM
#110
F-IT
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ocala,fl
Posts: 995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you on rcc? If soo pm rice. He has had a lot of exp with the Dynatek boxxes. I know in certain configs you cant run less than 10* split because there isn't enough charge time. That may cause some honky things in itself
02-11-12, 12:02 AM
#111
issue resolved, just gotta clean up this diagnostic mess and too late to take it over to the dyno tonight so it will sit 'til monday.
i don't mess with less than a 10* split anyways, not after what i have heard from my knock ears even with a 10 degree split. 11-12 seems to be the sweet spot for moderate to higher horsepower builds. people running near 0 are running ticking time bombs.
i don't mess with less than a 10* split anyways, not after what i have heard from my knock ears even with a 10 degree split. 11-12 seems to be the sweet spot for moderate to higher horsepower builds. people running near 0 are running ticking time bombs.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-11-12 at 12:06 AM.
02-14-12, 09:35 AM
#116
and...
catastrophic failure
went well for about 1.5 hours was doing 362whp@12psi@6500RPM(was shooting for a hybrid turbo record and likely could have gotten it), was having some fuel inconsistencies with the AFRs but it was bouncing between 10.3:1AFR with some overly rich ignition break up(lowest the microtech will read) and 11:1 so it was still at safe levels and conservative timing of 13-16* of advance with 11* split. i attribute the richness to a rather bouncy MAP reading on the microtech even ported at the throttle body to smooth the signal, will probably need an orifice made as well to smooth it further and make tuning quicker and easier as well as more consistent.
anyways, nearing the end of cleaning up the maps(was tuned before but i made some adjustments to the injector staging and turned off the kenne belle to make sure they wouldn't cause issues) the AFR spiked to over 14:1 and lost power. pulled off the dyno and 3 quarts of oil was laying on the floor and was only hitting on 1 rotor. long story short the pinning held but the cycle was so severe is still allowed the engine to twist a small amount to cause a hairline crack at the rear dowel pin at the filter base and i'm guessing it ate up a housing and a rotor. goopy or ALS likely could have held it all together.
i looked over all the logs and everything looks fine from the management perspective, timing and fuel were conservative. whatever is embedded into this car takes between an hour to 2 hours to manifest itself and only occurs under a hard load. this time the spike occurred at about 7k RPMs and results in a sharp spike in AFRs that can't be compensated for. i noticed the old fuel pump had the wrong type of hose(almost all these pump suppliers give the wrong hose so double check your ****!) and was cracking and getting eaten up on the outside of the hose so i repaired that prior to tuning, it was still holding fine but it needed to be addressed.
for now the plan is to just fix the engine and he will pick it up and sort out some of the wiring on the car, the main power delivery system of the car is about all that is left and it is a bit of a mess and needs to be cleaned up. voltage logs show an even 14.5-15v from the FD alternator and the gilmer belt has no way of slipping so... i'm at a loss. this car is a motor eater and has had this same issue for about 8-9 years or more, there just isn't much that we haven't changed or upgraded to try and solve the problem and it's very intermittent so diagnosing it is damn near impossible.
catastrophic failure
went well for about 1.5 hours was doing 362whp@12psi@6500RPM(was shooting for a hybrid turbo record and likely could have gotten it), was having some fuel inconsistencies with the AFRs but it was bouncing between 10.3:1AFR with some overly rich ignition break up(lowest the microtech will read) and 11:1 so it was still at safe levels and conservative timing of 13-16* of advance with 11* split. i attribute the richness to a rather bouncy MAP reading on the microtech even ported at the throttle body to smooth the signal, will probably need an orifice made as well to smooth it further and make tuning quicker and easier as well as more consistent.
anyways, nearing the end of cleaning up the maps(was tuned before but i made some adjustments to the injector staging and turned off the kenne belle to make sure they wouldn't cause issues) the AFR spiked to over 14:1 and lost power. pulled off the dyno and 3 quarts of oil was laying on the floor and was only hitting on 1 rotor. long story short the pinning held but the cycle was so severe is still allowed the engine to twist a small amount to cause a hairline crack at the rear dowel pin at the filter base and i'm guessing it ate up a housing and a rotor. goopy or ALS likely could have held it all together.
i looked over all the logs and everything looks fine from the management perspective, timing and fuel were conservative. whatever is embedded into this car takes between an hour to 2 hours to manifest itself and only occurs under a hard load. this time the spike occurred at about 7k RPMs and results in a sharp spike in AFRs that can't be compensated for. i noticed the old fuel pump had the wrong type of hose(almost all these pump suppliers give the wrong hose so double check your ****!) and was cracking and getting eaten up on the outside of the hose so i repaired that prior to tuning, it was still holding fine but it needed to be addressed.
for now the plan is to just fix the engine and he will pick it up and sort out some of the wiring on the car, the main power delivery system of the car is about all that is left and it is a bit of a mess and needs to be cleaned up. voltage logs show an even 14.5-15v from the FD alternator and the gilmer belt has no way of slipping so... i'm at a loss. this car is a motor eater and has had this same issue for about 8-9 years or more, there just isn't much that we haven't changed or upgraded to try and solve the problem and it's very intermittent so diagnosing it is damn near impossible.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-14-12 at 10:00 AM.
02-14-12, 03:48 PM
#121
Like a G6
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the Dutch Mountains
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
detonation from the lean condition. basically the best way to describe it would be as if the rotor were stopped suddenly and the motor attempts to twist around it, deforming everything
02-15-12, 12:15 PM
#123
the microtech has a very limited amount of inputs that it logs. things could be wired up to log but only 1-2 at the time so i'm just logging the basics. fuel pressure would be better to log but still wouldn't give a pinpoint as to what the real problem is in the system.
i'll let him decide if he wants to invest in more logging devices and then we can go from there. problem is the issue is inconsistent and happens too quickly to avoid a costly junk part like half of a motor. i suppose driving it less aggressively with a boost cut at 5psi would keep the engine from popping and hopefully still reproduce the issue.
that's something to consider for the future but for now i just need the car gone. one of the only cars i have even considered giving up on diagnosing, mainly because wasting 2-3 weeks(except for this one, took about a month and a half in labor doing all this) for each attempt to figure out the issue is too much for me, even with other things tacked on this time to the repair it wouldn't have even covered the shop rent and now i have to push it around the shop some more... as i said, the car is cursed. so many others pass through with engines and tunes unscathed but this one continually kicks us in the nuts.
i'll let him decide if he wants to invest in more logging devices and then we can go from there. problem is the issue is inconsistent and happens too quickly to avoid a costly junk part like half of a motor. i suppose driving it less aggressively with a boost cut at 5psi would keep the engine from popping and hopefully still reproduce the issue.
that's something to consider for the future but for now i just need the car gone. one of the only cars i have even considered giving up on diagnosing, mainly because wasting 2-3 weeks(except for this one, took about a month and a half in labor doing all this) for each attempt to figure out the issue is too much for me, even with other things tacked on this time to the repair it wouldn't have even covered the shop rent and now i have to push it around the shop some more... as i said, the car is cursed. so many others pass through with engines and tunes unscathed but this one continually kicks us in the nuts.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 02-15-12 at 12:28 PM.
