Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

Hello everyone, my name is Jared and i recently purchased a 1990 GXL for 1000$

it didn't run at the time because the previous owner had the sticky starter issue and didn't know what to do at all! me and a couple friends got it running in a few days after replacing some other worn down parts.

so my build! Attach TWO 9b turbos off my friends mitsubishi GTO. should be fun. i wanna have something different and i got a good deal on the turbos. since these came off a engine he was building and had only 5000Kms on them.

so ill be running

600cc
10 psi 9b turbo's
jasma exhaust
rpm rising fuel rail
cx racing tri core rad
hks intercooler
forge bov
greddy e manage blue
podi gauges
rotiform rims
tien drift spec coilovers
95a poly motor mounts
prothane suspension bushing kit
Ultra racing bracing all around
DAD racing seats
sparco 4 point
momo steering wheel
2 hertz es300 subs
audison LRX4.1K
audison bit one
deck is undecided
Hertz high energy 6.5 components
2 1400 kinetik batteries
Falken FK-452 215/45R17

my goal for the build is 350whp

might have to do water meth still not sure if ill gave to or not. and i also plan on painting the entire car and doing a body lift. the stereo will be competing for the best SQ stereo in the province. just ordered 2 bulk rolls of wires mat to do the entire car! should be installing it this weekend. interior is entirely pulled for the mean time.

might not even reinstall the heater core since this will only be my summer car

hope you guys enjoy!

comments and suggestions welcome!

YellowT2

iTrader: (1)

Does this mean 600cc fuel injectors? If you're trying for 350hp I'd probably go up a little in size, and upgrade the fuel pump also.

Are you planning to run the turbos sequential or parallel? With the money you're spending on other stuff it seems odd to select these turbos just because you "got a good deal on" them. Hopefully you won't run into any fitment issues; may end up wishing you had just gone with a standard single turbo kit. If you're just doing it to be different then have at it.

Anyway, sounds like a cool project. Post some pictures as you work on it.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

Well I hope not either, I'm doing all the exhaust manifolds my self so I'll tuck them as tight as possible, and I paid 300$ for both turbos, so that's kinda why. And I have a spare set of 1000cc but I figured those would be too big lol

dwb87

iTrader: (22)

You can use them. I ran 720cc primaries and 1,680cc secondaries.

You'll probably want to go with something similar to get 350 RWHP out of this... Why twin turbos, though?

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

Because I want to be different, it's unique, and really were would I find injectors that big?

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

putting a 2.2 ecotec into a hummer limo could be called unique, but in reality, it's just stupid. i'll paypal you 20 Bucks, if this thing EVER runs and puts out more then 300rwhp. If you have to ask...............................be doing it.

sharingan 19

iTrader: (16)

$20 here too

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

Haha.... Is that all you have to do to make money around here!??

I like your ambition, I really do. If this car is going to be a project car that you will not have to rely on, then by all means go for it. I don't see the reason for people to poop on your ideas, but at least take the comments into consideration. A hybrid turbo could have been built, by yourself, for probably under $300. I'll be the first to admit that I come up with some crazy ideas that usually don't work, even after people told me they won't. Not that I care though. I do stuff for my own learning experiences, not for others' viewing pleasure.

If it doesn't work, however, please make sure the car runs again... on rotary power. Don't give up on it because of a crazy idea gone wrong.

Pettersen

iTrader: (1)

rofl, twins on a rotary isn't unique, it's what all fd's came with as standard. And if i'm not mistaken you'r turbos are too small to support anywhere near that power especially at only 10psi.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

thanks man! and i do, the info about the injectors i am taking into consideration. and ya that'll be a cool 40$ ill get :P and it doesn't have to be reliable at all. and it will run on rotary, if this doesn't work then ill do a big single.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

FD had 2 turbos but there was only a 500rpm range where they were both working at the same time. one was small and built low boost to spool fast and then the bigger one took over mid rpm range.

and 10psi is the testing psi, don't wanna run it to hard at first and blow it up!

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

All of this is completely wrong. Read up on the sequential turbo info in the FD training manual. The primary turbo is used until about 4000 RPM, and then the secondary turbo is brought online in combination with the primary turbo. Now they are running in parallel and will continue to do so. Prior to the switchover point, the secondary turbo is spun up to surge by closing a valve which reroutes air from the compressor outlet back to the inlet. This is to bring its speed up, so there isn't a lag at switchover. Both turbos are exactly the same turbo, Hitachi HT-12s.

Honestly I think you are going the wrong direction here. Your S5 NA engine will have too high of a compression ratio for reliable turbocharging. Unless you maintain the working aux ports, low end will suffer hugely. The S5 NA intake is not optimized for the pressure ratios seen with forced induction. The E-Manage Blue is a piggyback fuel controller and doesn't control timing, something you will need to run very conservatively on an S5 NA engine that is running boost.

There's little point in running the HKS intercooler as the kit won't do any good. You'll need to make all your piping from scratch anyway. Not sure what a "Jasma exhaust" is but you'll be needing a custom downpipe.

If you only want 350HP, there are much better choices (like the good ol' GT35R, T4B, or several stock hybrids) than a complicated custom twin turbo system.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

The difference between compression on a na and turbo is .7 and I am not using the stock intake, and the emanage is a temp because I have an extra laying around. I realize the pipping will be custom, I meant that the intercooler itself is hks. Because I got a good deal on it and it has 2inlets and 1 outlet.

But honestly why must people always bash my idea of running twin 9b? Like can I not experiment? If it blows up it blows up that's why it's a project car, if it blows I'll rebuild it and do a single or I'll shove something else under the hood like a rb20 or a v8. Because I have both extras of those sitting on stands. Please only comment if you have any input and how to make my twin setup work then I'd wry much like to hear that instead of people thinking I'm an idiot for doing a twin setup!

Thanks

ImpartialMouse

iTrader: (2)

You probably want to do water/meth injection. I haven't experimented with it myself but from what I have heard it doesn't really have any drawbacks just benefits.

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

'jasma exhaust'

jasma refers to japans equivelant of carb legal parts here in the us. many kids get mad unmarked jdm exhaust from ebay and find this jasma stamping on either the muffler or elsewhere and think that jasma is the brand.

also

seems like your turbos will run out of breath on the rotary in a hurry.

either way. i applaud your leap of faith. dont get discouraged when it blows up. it will blow up regardless of what you slap on it so your choice honestly has little bearing.

good luck and use the search function more than the post reply/new thread buttons. people are more than helpful when you ask questions and dont get combative.

lots of pictures help a thread moving too.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

You can be assured that I'm somewhat aware of the compression difference between the NA and turbo rotors.

The problem you're going to have running boost on those rotors with nothing but an e-manage is that the stock ECU is going to be running about 30 degrees of advance. With 9.7:1 rotors you're going to need to be at about 10 degrees to remain somewhat reliable. Not do-able with the stock ECU. Even the TII ECU is going to be around 25 degrees advance (stock timing maps are somewhere around here, a search should turn them up).

I don't see any bashing in this thread, just some advice. You think this is bashing? Should have been around 11 years ago when I did my first turbo-NA and then you would have been witness to multiple pole threads like "Will Aaron Cake's car ever run again?", "How many minutes will Aaron's engine run?", etc. People in this thread have been helpful and I'm as well trying to steer you into a direction that will be successful. It's fine to experiment, however it's not much of an experiment if the outcome is known and documented. It is of course up to you how you spend your time and money, and if you want to continue, it's your prerogative. However I would suggest that you at least entertain some of the advice you are receiving in this thread. And you're about to get a little more of it...

With the setup you describe, there is no if, there is only a when it blows up. And that when will come very quickly after you have finished the build. Unlike a piston engine, a forced induction rotary has very little tolerance to lean AFRs and excessive timing. Running under either of these conditions will very quickly result in broken apex seals due to detonation. And by the time you've figured out that you are damaging the engine, the damage will be long done. So in the process you've now damaged a rotor, housing, and likely sent shards of apex seals through your turbos, damaging the turbine wheels as well. Seems like an awful lot of work to go through just to break a bunch of parts.

Now, if you want to continue with this project, in my opinion this is the way you should proceed:

-550CC primary, 1000CC secondary
-Walbro fuel pump
-Full standalone of your choice (common in the RX-7 world are Haltech, Microtech, and Megasquirt....I'd recommend Haltech, or Megasquirt if you want the DIY aspect)
-Twin turbo setup, big intercooler, all the plumbing, yadda yadda
-Boost gauge, wideband to interface to your ECU, etc.
-TII drivetrain: while the NA drivetrain will be fine in the short term, to remain reliable in the long term, you'll want to go with the TII drivetrain.

Turbo wise, according to the compressor map posted above, your two "9B" turbos are equivalent in flow to just under the GT35R. So at around 16-17 PSI, you'll likely see around 350RWHP. However the difference being that you'll have to contend with twice the plumbing, half the space and more of a massive heat source under the hood. And keep in mind that while your twin turbos are much smaller than a single, there's also a lot more inertia to spin up so they will be laggy as compared to a modern ball bearing single as well.

Almost all replies to this thread have given you helpful information. Those that have been a bit on the sarcastic side are likely because it's evident that you are taking on a project which you don't fully understand the scope of.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

i knew jasma was the carb equivalent it was just the best way to describe it, but the jasma mufflers rant actually that bad, and i have no cat and only the resonators but i think ill keep the mufflers since they are in good condition and just get a exhaust made up afterwards and thanks for doing the flow chart. is that accounting for 2 of them or is that irrelevant?

natobait

Spoke what happened here? Was the project completed?

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

Still in progress, waiting in parts and have a dispute with PayPal going on right about insignia that tried selling parts to a few people here and is actually fraudulent. So that's taking up some of my time, otherwise I got a hatch with no wiper are hole, and a TII hood

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

so slight change of plans, ill be using a pair of 15G turbos instead that I've gotten my hands on, lol

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Those are at least a better choice than the 9B. Make sure to update this thread with your progress and I hope you've taken my advice regarding standalones and fueling.

Stringbean

iTrader: (1)

I sure will and I sure have sir! Also I picked up a turbo rotary engine for 50$ off a wrecker condition internally unknown but I couldn't say no for 50$ so we'll see where that takes me. And also I've considered the timing issue with the na