Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

Wow I didn't know you had it running at all before.

I think I'm gonna rebuild my engine anyway. Just for peice of mind.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

So, as I said I got into removing the interior in the rear of the car. All the parts were in really decent shape. That's the good news. I did find a nasty surprise. I found a rat or mouse nest. A second one. The first one I found in the back passenger side rocker, which turned the rocker into a pile of rust held together with paint... Crap.



And the floors in this section had a hole, which I knew. But the problem is that most of the damage there is at the jacking point where the torsion bar mounts. Much like 82Transam's Pandafb build. Same crap. I mean challenge...





And as I said at the beginning of this thread. My brother bought this from the local high school votech, and they must have tried some body work on it. I mean, who rivets in a patch panel? Seriously? What are they teaching these kids? Of course, maybe this pre-dates their experience with the car. Let's hope so!



I just KNOW this is gonna be a problem. It turned out to be packed with bondo and rust. It just fell away as I got into it from the inside. Another challenge




Here's the second rats nest or mouse nest. It was inside the frame in the rear of the car beneath the inspection panel which, you guessed it, had rusted pretty badly...


So after poking around and getting the old rotten metal and bondo out this is what I was left with.... Ugh!




And here's the surprise! Yahoo! An old repair that has definitely seen better days. This is the inner structure behind the outer fender behind the wheel well. As you can see it is RED. This car is SILVER. Someone has done a poor job in the past of repairing this part of the car. It is rusted really bad where the welds were. Must not have used weld through primer or properly sealed it up after they welded. They just put a bead of silicone along the unwelded parts. It will be difficult to get this out, replaced and make it look right. If it involves removing the outer fender, and I'm pretty certain it will, I will have to either get a LOT bet AT welding, get a better welder, or contract this part out. Thankfully I have the rust free replacement parts that I picked up from my buddy Jerry.





The red section is rusted pretty badly as is the horizontal piece from that section out to the frame, and beneath it who knows how bad. I'm dreading having to cut out that outer fender. I haven't gotten the courage up to do that yet.

Anyway, rust, rats, and mice suck.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

I feel your pain brother... Keep plugging away at it, you'll get there.

I've known quite a few votec grads over the years, and sadly yes, that is what they're being "taught" there. I'm sure there are good votec schools out there, with students who actually care about cars, but most of them.... not so much... Just another reason to find a good restoration shop - NOT a body/collision shop when wanting to get work done on a car like this. One of the many reasons I just do my own work...

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

So, I take it that the wheel well is constructed in two halves. An inner section that is on the inside of the car, and an outer section that is the "wheel well" that you see when you take the tire off, and this is the section that curves down to the round edge of the quarter panel. The two are spot welded together kinda like a semi-circular clamshell. Is that correct? Just trying to visualize how it's constructed so I can successfully deconstruct it - the fun stuff.

Oh, and I took that white patch off that was riveted in. I'll post a pic up, but it ain't pretty.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Correct, it's two halves, the Inner half that connects to the bin area and upper control arm section etc, and the outer half that connects to the quarter panel lip and goes up into the b pillar area. The outer part is very intricate and part of a very large section of the rear body. Plan on simply patching that. To replace the whole thing would be digger way too deep into the cars structure, and ultimately unnecessary.

The inner half of wheel well could be replaced entirely with your parts car patch, but personally I wouldn't go that far unless the rust has set in everywhere. My cars have always ever only needed the front half of it (basically around the upper control arm mount and surrounding) I make a cut at "12 o'clock" or so and just leave the back half alone. Not sure how many additional pics I have of that area, but my thread probably shows you enough to get an idea.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Thanks 82!! I am thinking that the rust has set in everywhere. Especially from the inner structure where the speaker is towards the spare tire, and inside that frame section there thanks to the mouse nest I found inside the frame. I got into it a little bit today (called in 8 hours of leave!) and took the tail light out and poked around a bit.



There is a frame section that runs inside the quarter panel on the passenger side that is pretty rusty, and it looks like I may only be able to get to it if I cut out the quarter panel. I hope that's not the case, but it looks like maybe it is. Or, maybe I can access it from inside the car after I remove the red structure that has rusted welds. Fingers crossed! I'll do my level best to deal with the rust if I'm lucky enough to get to that without removing the quarter panel.



If it was more accessible I could do something with it I think... Not too sure at this point though.

The rear half of the outer wheel well that is spot welded to the quarter panel lip has already been replaced with that red section. It's already cut at the 12 o'clock position and unfortunately is badly rotten and connects to the red structure that runs from the wheel well to the tail light section. In this next picture, the back of the car is to the left, and the front to the right. It's looking up from the ground.





I'm gonna take my time, lots of pictures, and try to get to as much as I can without compromising the structure too much.

Fortunately, I have a nice rust free section to refer to (thanks again Jerry!) and eventually use to replace this rotten stuff with.



I hope that I can replace both the inner and outer wheel well sections, the flat part that is the flat storage area above the frame, and the rotten red structure, and maybe even some frame sections (if I can get access to them), all without cutting the quarter panel out.

I looked at it good today looking for signs from the inside that the quarter panel had been replaced and I see no such indication that it has been cut. So far so good. Looks like the previous work only replaced the inner vertical structure, the rear half of the outer wheel well, and the patches over the holes in the forward section of wheel well (with riveted patches). I think the previous repair replaced a good portion of the inside vertical sections behind the passenger seat. Check out these unpainted spot welds. There's no way these came from the factory like this:



See those unbrushed, unpainted, unprimed burn marks going up the b-pillar (it is the B-pillar there, right?). That could not have come from the factory like that....

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Yeah that's def not factory. Man your car has had a rough life. Again I feel your pain. The pandafb was like that. Been hacked on by at least several previous idiots...

That patch panel section you got is super clean. Was is missing a title or something? Almost seems a shame to have chopped it up.

Anyway, as always, keep at it, you'll get there!

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Thanks! And you're right, I'm learning that this car has indeed had a rough life! I'll check with my dad to see if he remembers if there was any bodywork done on it while he or my brother had it. I really think though that it pre-dates their ownership of it.

I really hope I can get this thing rust free, but I know it won't be completely rust free. There's some sections of the frame that I'm sure are rusty on the inside that I'll never get to. My biggest fear is that my welds will rust like these old ones did. I don't think they will, but nothing lasts forever, right? I treat everything I expose that has even a slight chance of having rust with the POR-15 metal ready. I also didn't find any "weld through primer", but since that stuff has a high zinc content, I got the next best thing I could find and that's this stuff from Rustoleum called "bright galvanizing compound" which has a "zinc-rich coating". I hit whatever I have welded with that on both sides before I weld, and then took your advice and primed everything really well after welding. Hopefully that will give my welds more time in the long run, but I guess only time will tell.

The donor sections were from a car that had been hit in the front. Not sure where it came from. I've been lucky to have that and not have to make patch panels from scratch. I saw a really straight rust free 85 in a junkyard in Richmond last summer that I wanted to buy outright, but they crushed it before I could get back there. It's a shame. It was one of the nicest cars I've ever seen in a junkyard. I wish I could save them all... If only I had some property out in the sticks. I probably would just start collecting and in 30 years you'd see me on a TV show or something!!

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Haha you and me both. If I had a better space to store them I'd probably have a good dozen of them. I would love to still be driving one in 50 years (if I make it that long and/or we still have gas to run them on)

MR.lucky80GS

Omg! Your post is sooo helpfull bro and very awesome 79! I'm glad she came to life after the old finger crossed trick. Works every time I crossed my fingers, lol btw my 80 GS has some rust problems on the bottom end too. Not nearly to the extent of two rats nests, I am very sorry to hear about the rust and nest. But FULL PROPS for not being scared to fix all. You are a true backyard mechanic , and thanks again for all the post. -MR.lucky80GS

MR.lucky80GS

And always have all the spare parts for your car everywhere(as many as you can physically keep in your garage) NEVER PASS CHANCE TO GET NICE PARTS AT JUNK YARD!!! IM going to junk yard tomorrow to get motor for my 80gs that has 90,000 miles from junk yard. Very impossible to find parts should never be left!! It was fate if you find good parts for your car In junkyard. And im not one to play with fate. GRAB IT NEXT TIME!

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Thanks! I'm glad I could inspire you and help you out. Rust is inevitable unfortunately...

If I ever see another 79 or 80 in the junkyard, I'm gonna take out a loan to get whatever I can!

Well, I did more forensics on the old rust bucket tonight. Called dad and he said neither he nor my brother had any bodywork done on it. So, I think that the kids at votech did the rinkydink riveted patches, and some bodyshop must have taken on the rear quarter repairs.

It's very curious that the untreated spot welds on the B-pillar go only so high. Made me wonder if the quarter had been replaced too, and how high those redone spot welds went. Well, they go about 3/4 of the way up the B-pillar. So I took off more interior trim tonight to see if the same kind of spot weld was near the rear quarter glass and sure enough there's a few there too along the bottom of the quarter glass.





So, it looks like the spot welds on the inside structure were redone to get that inner fender section in. But to do that the quarter panel must have been replaced, but I couldn't find any evidence of a weld seam on the quarter panel. That is, until I looked at the tail light sections. I noticed some irregularities like the center vertical section looks like it has been cut and riveted back in place to hold it until it was welded. But where was the weld? I took a wire wheel to it and found a bunch of bondo that was hiding a silverbrazed section. I doubt that could be factory - it doesn't look as good as the drivers side section. Maybe some other SA owners could verify for me whether or not the center vertical section of the tail light structure is cut? I doubt it is...






Here's the drivers side. It's cut in the center too, but it matches up with the seam a lot better than the passenger side:


So with my hand I followed that seam from the passenger tail light section up the quarter panel and I felt some bumps along a line that goes to the bottom right corner of the liftgate glass channel. I think it was cut there, and along the top of the B-pillar.

It has all rusted pretty badly and needs to be replaced, but I think it's above my skill set to do that and get it right. I could probably get the inner structure replaced because no one will see it, but I doubt I could get the quarter panel replaced and get it straight and professional looking. I may have to farm that section, or this whole rear section, out to a professional. I'm thinking of asking an acquaintance I have who does this kind of work on the side and see what he'd charge, but I may have to wait until I'm in a better position to pay someone. Not sure which way I'll go at this point, but all signs point to a good sized hit to the right rear of my rust bucket. Who knows, maybe it was the entire back section, but so far the drivers side doesn't seem to be nearly as bad. More investigation is warranted.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

It just hit me. The quarter panel was replaced and the seam runs horizontally on the B-pillar along a line that extends from the bottom of the quarter glass. The spot welds were drilled out on the B-pillar and the bottom of the quarter glass, and the cut extends from the bottom corner of the hatch well to the tail light. That's why the spot welds were redone along the bottom of the quarter glass and 3/4 of the way up the B-pillar. It also explains the typically red color primer I see on a weld across the rocker about 6 inches in front of the B-pillar, and on the B-pillar where some paint has flaked off.

Mystery solved!!

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

Obiously it would be a VERY advanced body proceedure, but couldn't you just take the rear quater you have and weld it into your car?

My freind has a VW bug and a few weeks after driving it around and tinkering on it he found a seem where a red VW had been "added" to the car. About 1/4 of the car was replaced at one time. The car drives fine and doesn't cut tires. would this be possible to do on your car?

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

You're right Qingdao. I have all the replacement parts I need to fix this, so it's just matter of my welding skills and making the quarter panel look good when it's done. I want it to look professional (like the pandafb - my reference thread - thanks Sean!), but that's probably not possible with the welder I have which is why, at this point anyway, I'm thinking I may have to farm that part out. The internal stuff I have no problem trying to tackle because as long as it's solid I couldn't care less how it looks. It's like the first cup of coffee in the morning - it doesn't have to taste good, it just has to work.

Mainly documenting this part of the rustoration (ha!) for a couple reasons. One so that I'll have a record of it, and two because mom and dad are keeping up with it. Pictures are worth a thousand words as they say!

I'm gonna try to remove as much as I can without destroying too much (always the goal, right?) and replace with the nice rust free sections I have. I've been thinking about this and I'm gonna remove all the rear suspension, the gas tank, etc. so I just have the body to work with. I just need to find more room to store stuff! All that stuff needs to be restored anyway - its all covered with rust and scale and looks like crap and I want it to look new again. I'd really like to upgrade the rearend to disc brakes and limited slip, but that's not in the budget right now.

Well, I'm off! I'll update again if I find anything interesting or have something earthshattering to report.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

If I were closer I'd come help. Like he said, you have that whole section, you could just graft the whole thing on. It's definitely been done before. Would eliminate all the problem areas in one shot. Much easier said than done though of course.

Hell, if you don't mind knowing that it won't be "perfect" (they never are anyway) the first time around, just do what you can there for now with patches and por 15 etc and then just revisit the project in like 6 years or something. When I built the Panda (it's not a panda anymore, but I'm still calling it that dammit!) the first time I didn't have the skills needed to do it "correctly" but what I was able to do lasted like 7-8 years before it got bad again, the I redid it a second time (the blue build). There was some extra effort of course since I had to "undo" some of my prior work, but in the end it's nice and solid.

I'm not a fan of farming out work, since most of the body shops I know of do hack work like the stuff you're finding on the car now... Just my 2 cents though, I'm not very trusting haha!

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Got the passenger rear inner wheel well out today. Still a ways to go, but as my buddy Jerry said it's a big jigsaw puzzle, just welded together! This one is coming apart nicely so far. Rust has gotten into plenty of places here as you can see. I can only imagine how nice it would be to work on a nice rust free desert car. Still lots more to do to get all the rusty sections out, but this was a good start:















Was gonna spend the day taking out the rear end, but I don't really have the room yet, and didn't feel like monkeying with the rear brakes to remove the emergency brake cable from each drum. So, just got the hole saw, chisel, and hammer out and went to town.

Happy Easter everyone!

MR.lucky80GS

Happy Easter! It's like seeing my car and what I'm going to be doing to the underside of my 80 GS. Which I think I just found out is s LS with seats removed and waffles switched. ( would still like conformation or tips on how to find out with my vin. #. Anyways sorry to get off your rebuild topic, My Restoration shop hommie has two fork lift motors attached to a frame bolted( very well) with two sets of blades facing each other that are modified for rotating or spinning the car frame when attached to the forks with ultra ease. They made this in house( in shop). And is a very usefull machine for things like you are doing. I will ask hommie for pics from his shop of 1970 GTO sitting strapped to the thing I am talking about I'm here for ya bro. How is your welding skills?

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

That sounds like a neat contraption. I'd love to see it. I don't think there's any way to track down what options were on an early RX-7 via the VIN . The only way I know of is by the original dealer paperwork, which is extremely hard to come by - you'd have to get lucky and get it with the car from an original owner. Other more experienced users or moderators on here may know more about that, but as far as I know only the dealer paperwork had the build info on it.

My welding skills are "meh". I'm getting better though and practice makes perfect as they say. Good luck with your project!

MR.lucky80GS

this is a before pic( sorry couldnt get pics of 70 GTO) this is a 65 mustang with horriable rust damage (like yours ) and this is a direct quote from my hommie...

MR.lucky80GS

This is my hommies bosses shop but this is what he just told Me through txt " It would probably be cheaper if we build your own machine to turn them on their side their only 800 bucks. " he won't show motor side because he designed it. I understand why.. but he did show buffed out adjustable swivel fork end. He made from steel scraps and made basically a adjustable motor mount / fork lift forks one one side. The other side is a little more complicated but not much. It has adjustable swivel joints on another buffed out custom motor mount with motor to ease with flipping, tipping, whatever and two more fork lift forks.

MR.lucky80GS

this should help you bro. I know you said farm . But plz don't. If you have to farm make sure guy is really honest. Sit down and have a cup of coffee type thing. It is gitting very hard to trust people with your baby's nowadays ...

MR.lucky80GS

My bro is a master of welding and he is only 25. I love him with all my heart and he is my best friend. I'm really really lucky restoration brother wise. So I'm trying to help everyone here including you. But I told him about you and your 79 and he said it was cool to share. Btw if you wanna see more before pics from what they started with I would be more than happy. Think It was on par if not worse than your car at start, and the 70 Gto had ALL floor and trunk replaced and turned out just as nice!. I might be able to get the 30 year rusted pic from Oregon coast when they picked it up.

MR.lucky80GS

Sorry I forgot to warn max for this kind of set up is 2000- 3500lb. So most old school cars have to be stripped

MR.lucky80GS

That is the rhino can spray anyone can do that , and keep their baby from rusting for at least another 25-30 years. That's right they make it in a CAN! Rhino spray in a can is the shiznit!