Aussie Rebuild | 12AT + EFR7670 + E85 | LAGGY7
#77
Full Member
Thread Starter
Here's the follow up dynotune,
very happy to net a 175rwkw on the standard engine combination, the EFR 7670 with IWG gave us absolutely no issues maintaining boost levels - dispute what most people complain about
after 2hrs on the dyno and lots of fiddling around with timing and boost levels i was quite satisfied with a 30kw gain, pull after pull was consistent and it was very easy to to want add more timing a touch more psi also to note that the rev cut was set for 6500rpm
the little 12AT came out of the factory with 120kw from flywheel and its managed to smash that safely with the mods we have put on; looking forward to getting the new engine in
the efr response is amazing, we can see boost start building from as low as 1750rpm and on full by 2500!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cNWFNDr1UFyygLc87
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NLYXSMtJ2YN86xbu9
very happy to net a 175rwkw on the standard engine combination, the EFR 7670 with IWG gave us absolutely no issues maintaining boost levels - dispute what most people complain about
after 2hrs on the dyno and lots of fiddling around with timing and boost levels i was quite satisfied with a 30kw gain, pull after pull was consistent and it was very easy to to want add more timing a touch more psi also to note that the rev cut was set for 6500rpm
the little 12AT came out of the factory with 120kw from flywheel and its managed to smash that safely with the mods we have put on; looking forward to getting the new engine in
the efr response is amazing, we can see boost start building from as low as 1750rpm and on full by 2500!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cNWFNDr1UFyygLc87
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NLYXSMtJ2YN86xbu9
Last edited by Laggy7; 07-17-19 at 12:41 AM.
#79
Instrument Of G0D.
iTrader: (1)
Allegedly, (according to some flow diagrams i saw on here once), thats a low pressure zone there so should pull a fair bit of air out of the 'bay. Worse case scenario it will vent hot air when parked and greatly lessen the risk of cooking brake boosters, clutch masters, steering boxes, fuel oil and vacuum lines and paint etc when parked at least, which can be a bit of a thing with RHD turbo rotaries.
#81
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Thread Starter
#82
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Thread Starter
not many updates of late as ive takent the car off the road for painting engine bay, roof and bonnet.
also the steering conversion is now underway, i have chosen to go with an replaced new rack conversion; an FC front end was only going to cause further local registration issues with our ridiculous laws governing suspension mods; unfortunately it wont have power assisted either, its just again too hard with the local laws they want everything spec'd and tested at a race track and then lots of engineers to sign off on it.
While the engine bay is all cleaned and stripped i have sent off all the intake and exhaust parts to get ceramic coated
Here is the 7670 after 500km on E85
I was very impressed with the coating quality and the price! it works out to be cheaper than proper heatwrap in most cases, as claimed from the coater they have noticed some 20~40% reduction in temps but as much as 70% in some applications! i would HIGHLY recommend getting your turbocharger done before you fit it the car, we had some tense moments separating the centre, top and bottom. We are talking about a $1500+ titanium aluminide centre and with the leverage of most grunts you could damage one blade rather easily! A new turbo would simply come apart this has had just a couple of heat cycles and it was already bedded in well.
Such a shame to coat the stainless! (to add that the majority of the heatwrap i put on fell apart in my hands when it was removed)
Here's the colour matching that was done, we found the car had been painted a Chevy/Daewoo colour of "Sky grey effect" 83U. Shown here against the standard colour which i think its far too dark and teal in the light, its hard to show with the metallic in the light:
The engine bay and the roof are simply amazing, i keep finding myself stroking the paint cause it has so much glide and gloss in it! have never seen the roof sheen so much!
didnt go the extreme of filling up every hole in the firewall as most show cars have over here, just a repaint and tidy up
rest of the car will be done once i can amass the funds for the bodywork, its not as bad as i thought should be looking at sometime next year, give me time to save up for new tail light lenses!
also the steering conversion is now underway, i have chosen to go with an replaced new rack conversion; an FC front end was only going to cause further local registration issues with our ridiculous laws governing suspension mods; unfortunately it wont have power assisted either, its just again too hard with the local laws they want everything spec'd and tested at a race track and then lots of engineers to sign off on it.
While the engine bay is all cleaned and stripped i have sent off all the intake and exhaust parts to get ceramic coated
Here is the 7670 after 500km on E85
I was very impressed with the coating quality and the price! it works out to be cheaper than proper heatwrap in most cases, as claimed from the coater they have noticed some 20~40% reduction in temps but as much as 70% in some applications! i would HIGHLY recommend getting your turbocharger done before you fit it the car, we had some tense moments separating the centre, top and bottom. We are talking about a $1500+ titanium aluminide centre and with the leverage of most grunts you could damage one blade rather easily! A new turbo would simply come apart this has had just a couple of heat cycles and it was already bedded in well.
Such a shame to coat the stainless! (to add that the majority of the heatwrap i put on fell apart in my hands when it was removed)
Here's the colour matching that was done, we found the car had been painted a Chevy/Daewoo colour of "Sky grey effect" 83U. Shown here against the standard colour which i think its far too dark and teal in the light, its hard to show with the metallic in the light:
The engine bay and the roof are simply amazing, i keep finding myself stroking the paint cause it has so much glide and gloss in it! have never seen the roof sheen so much!
didnt go the extreme of filling up every hole in the firewall as most show cars have over here, just a repaint and tidy up
rest of the car will be done once i can amass the funds for the bodywork, its not as bad as i thought should be looking at sometime next year, give me time to save up for new tail light lenses!
#83
Full Member
Thread Starter
Removed the steering column and box to much amazement there wasnt as much french being spoken in the workshop that night, it is much more time consuming now working on the car that its all painted and you care about it alot more, its still very easy to mark the new paint.
My shaft was in good condition, however the ball bearings had worn down the gearset and it was noticeable how bad it was from each end, we have considered that the car might have had a replacement box in at one stage
s5t gearbox sent off to be inspected before i put it back in the car
thank god this **** isnt going back together, its a bloody mess!
It would appear i have "some steering issues"
Assembly of the new engine is coming together while i wait for the steering rack
new clutch, i hope i dont live to regret not going twin plate... Heavier flywheel this time with a cushioned ceramic plate
Getting closer every day to put this thing back in! can not wait to run it up on the dyno with some 20psi!
My shaft was in good condition, however the ball bearings had worn down the gearset and it was noticeable how bad it was from each end, we have considered that the car might have had a replacement box in at one stage
s5t gearbox sent off to be inspected before i put it back in the car
thank god this **** isnt going back together, its a bloody mess!
It would appear i have "some steering issues"
Assembly of the new engine is coming together while i wait for the steering rack
new clutch, i hope i dont live to regret not going twin plate... Heavier flywheel this time with a cushioned ceramic plate
Getting closer every day to put this thing back in! can not wait to run it up on the dyno with some 20psi!
#84
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Man this car is coming out gorgeous. Great work!
#86
Awesome work mate,
where did you get the brakes stuff done??
im looking for stuff for my HB and am running chicanes same as yours, i was just gonna upgrade the standard rotors and pads, but your setup look sweet as!!
keep up the great work,
krem
where did you get the brakes stuff done??
im looking for stuff for my HB and am running chicanes same as yours, i was just gonna upgrade the standard rotors and pads, but your setup look sweet as!!
keep up the great work,
krem
#87
Full Member
Thread Starter
https://www.facebook.com/Garage48customs/
the kit allows you to run "upgraded s6 brakes" as well so if you bought a s6 huge brake kit it would go on as well! - be it with bigger wheels of course. ive got some more photos if you want of the clearance with the chicanes if that helps, its really tight as the 3 piece bolts are in the way, with the 17" FR's there is no issue with clearance.
was going to ask how you went with your butterfly flap, we have tried setting it up as per standard but the flap only opens fully or shut; we also tried using a small vacuum bottle to store vacuum to help with the transition, but the secondaries still open too quickly. This of course isnt an issue with standard throttle cable as its all tied together. the other option we have considered is using an RC car/motorbike throttle controller and gradually open it with the Link Fury, any other thoughts?
#89
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
was going to ask how you went with your butterfly flap, we have tried setting it up as per standard but the flap only opens fully or shut; we also tried using a small vacuum bottle to store vacuum to help with the transition, but the secondaries still open too quickly. This of course isnt an issue with standard throttle cable as its all tied together. the other option we have considered is using an RC car/motorbike throttle controller and gradually open it with the Link Fury, any other thoughts?
RGHTBrainDesign@Gmail.com
You're forgetting the solenoid to control the operation. Then what you do is build a table on that solenoid control based on a set of parameters where it will open/close to your liking.
I outlined it in this thread here:
https://www.rx7club.com/rotary-car-p...jects-1129839/
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Laggy7 (08-27-19)
#90
www.AusRotary.com
Laggy7: I had assumed you were using a solenoid to control vacuum to the secondary throttle plate actuator? This is what I originally had in mind. In principle, it would work very similar to open loop boost control. However, I can see a few potential challenges:
1. the degree of control you get will depend on the sensitivity of the throttle plate actuator to vacuum. If only minute amounts of vacuum are sufficient to pull the throttle plates wide open, getting gradual control will be hard. I imagine this will be much more sensitive than controlling wastegate in an open loop boost control system.
2. vacuum is going to vary depending on engine operating parameters. A fixed solenoid opening position (duty cycle) will not correlate with a specific vacuum output figure. This didn't matter in the factory system, because it was just on/off.
3. there is no way of the ECU knowing what the secondary throttle position actually is, so it cannot provide any form of feedback. This matters in terms of actually tuning the throttle angle, as well as error detection. As an example look at DBW systems: this use stepper motors with 2 TPS: one for actuator position and one for actual throttle position. If a simple solenoid could do the job, then they would be used in DBW systems. Even in early rudimentary cruise control systems, the solenoid was there just to provide a vacuum source to the actuator, but you needed electronic control of the cruise actuator motor (not the vacuum source) to actually control the throttle, and then the computer had a reference (vehicle speed signal) to alter throttle angle to match.
IMO, it may be necessary to use some form of linear actuator or stepper motor to control the secondary throttle plates. But this would add significant complexity and likely another 6-8 inputs/outputs. Not saying it can't be done with just a solenoid, but the above challenges may need to be overcome.
A much more elegant and neater solution is to just use a FD throttle body, which already has achieved optimal primary/secondary staging via mechanical means, and then if you want DBW, control that using the BMW S54 remote DBW actuator I'm using. This gives you best of both worlds.
1. the degree of control you get will depend on the sensitivity of the throttle plate actuator to vacuum. If only minute amounts of vacuum are sufficient to pull the throttle plates wide open, getting gradual control will be hard. I imagine this will be much more sensitive than controlling wastegate in an open loop boost control system.
2. vacuum is going to vary depending on engine operating parameters. A fixed solenoid opening position (duty cycle) will not correlate with a specific vacuum output figure. This didn't matter in the factory system, because it was just on/off.
3. there is no way of the ECU knowing what the secondary throttle position actually is, so it cannot provide any form of feedback. This matters in terms of actually tuning the throttle angle, as well as error detection. As an example look at DBW systems: this use stepper motors with 2 TPS: one for actuator position and one for actual throttle position. If a simple solenoid could do the job, then they would be used in DBW systems. Even in early rudimentary cruise control systems, the solenoid was there just to provide a vacuum source to the actuator, but you needed electronic control of the cruise actuator motor (not the vacuum source) to actually control the throttle, and then the computer had a reference (vehicle speed signal) to alter throttle angle to match.
IMO, it may be necessary to use some form of linear actuator or stepper motor to control the secondary throttle plates. But this would add significant complexity and likely another 6-8 inputs/outputs. Not saying it can't be done with just a solenoid, but the above challenges may need to be overcome.
A much more elegant and neater solution is to just use a FD throttle body, which already has achieved optimal primary/secondary staging via mechanical means, and then if you want DBW, control that using the BMW S54 remote DBW actuator I'm using. This gives you best of both worlds.
#91
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Makes a lot more sense to do it my way. ON/OFF at RPM/Load/TPS values of your choosing on a table you've created.
#93
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Super rare, but most likely Japan.
I was going to build a turbo kit for my buddy Bijan down in LA, but there's so few 12As that it didn't seem like a viable option. I will however offer up an EFR 8374/8474 Turbine housing and S5 Turbo Manifold to run IWG. What you could do there is simply machine a spacer for the 12A Flange to match the S5 Turbo Flange which spaces everything out from the engine and then creates the most badass 12A turbo car that looks nearly stock.
You can see pictures of that on my build thread.
I was going to build a turbo kit for my buddy Bijan down in LA, but there's so few 12As that it didn't seem like a viable option. I will however offer up an EFR 8374/8474 Turbine housing and S5 Turbo Manifold to run IWG. What you could do there is simply machine a spacer for the 12A Flange to match the S5 Turbo Flange which spaces everything out from the engine and then creates the most badass 12A turbo car that looks nearly stock.
You can see pictures of that on my build thread.
#94
Full Member
Thread Starter
forgive the huge lack of updates, have been extremely busy setting up the new workshop with the dyno and the extraction system.
Also had to make up for all the time ive spent on the car, and took the family through asia for 4 weeks
so updates here we go:
6kw extraction fan, zings all the e85 goodness next door and out to atmosphere, works so well and is VERY quiet
Also had to make up for all the time ive spent on the car, and took the family through asia for 4 weeks
so updates here we go:
6kw extraction fan, zings all the e85 goodness next door and out to atmosphere, works so well and is VERY quiet
Last edited by Laggy7; 02-11-20 at 06:58 PM.
#95
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Thread Starter
yee olde steering box removed, and original crossmember mated with ae86 unit; work was done from Mr Enforcer Engineering in sydney
required some work to end of the rack to work with the splines of the intermediate shaft
turbo and dump clearance, plenty of room:
Interior rear seat cover came up a treat!, so plush and velvety
lots and lots of trial and error to get the seat bottoms to fill out and sit properly, i would of opted for the rear bucket bins you guys have in the states, but at least this gives me the option to take a third person or even a laptop bag
required some work to end of the rack to work with the splines of the intermediate shaft
turbo and dump clearance, plenty of room:
Interior rear seat cover came up a treat!, so plush and velvety
lots and lots of trial and error to get the seat bottoms to fill out and sit properly, i would of opted for the rear bucket bins you guys have in the states, but at least this gives me the option to take a third person or even a laptop bag
Last edited by Laggy7; 02-11-20 at 07:14 PM.
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JSmall (02-23-20)
#96
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Thread Starter
further works on the block, taps for turbo coolant lines, fitting and mounting of gaskets all the ceramic coating and heatsheilding coming along nicely.
I used a combination of ceramic coating, exhaust lagging, reflective heat tape and fordable high stick semi rigid to do everything possible to insulate the front secondary runner away from the turbo manifold. Looked at some rigid options but they were all well out of my price range nor do i have the ability to bend sheet metal like i would want it to look like. The ceramic coating alone should do a massive job.
Its also difficult to get the lagging in and around where you want it as you still need access to the flange bolts!
I used a combination of ceramic coating, exhaust lagging, reflective heat tape and fordable high stick semi rigid to do everything possible to insulate the front secondary runner away from the turbo manifold. Looked at some rigid options but they were all well out of my price range nor do i have the ability to bend sheet metal like i would want it to look like. The ceramic coating alone should do a massive job.
Its also difficult to get the lagging in and around where you want it as you still need access to the flange bolts!
#98
Full Member
Thread Starter
soo im at a model shop and its not to buy these three beautys
its for a servo for the FD inlet flap, got some stuff we planning on to work with the Link ecu, will need a mount to make it work
idea will be that it potentially it should further help with the cold start and e85. and maybe even some more drivability off boost and round town
its for a servo for the FD inlet flap, got some stuff we planning on to work with the Link ecu, will need a mount to make it work
idea will be that it potentially it should further help with the cold start and e85. and maybe even some more drivability off boost and round town
#99
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Thread Starter
wiring round two is underway, this time im removing all that is not needed! all those yellow ones on the left are getting chopped and the loom is going be a hell of alot less junk
front connecting loom has headlights and indicators not the other half the car running through it
heat treatment and plumbing underway:
ready to burn some vaseline
front connecting loom has headlights and indicators not the other half the car running through it
heat treatment and plumbing underway:
ready to burn some vaseline
#100
Full Member
Thread Starter
first start up!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zFw2CXWogMKhhLxp9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7VTcGFZSki7fRwvi6
my contribution to global warming:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tbFr9Y99x115tvG97
two days later run in on the dyno, took around 12hrs of cold start, run, 60/80/90/40/120 kmph with dyno load to simulate up and down hills. Consistant overheating as the mazda spec settings for timing burns the **** out of everything inside the engine. Even with the twin fans, water spray, all fans running the car was shooting up from 65 to 92deg within 25min. We ended up running a hose from the tap and drain outside and kept each run to 40mins
the ceramic coating efr is glowing read hot!: https://photos.app.goo.gl/eQugpjTDNJxWP4v58
changed the coolant, plugs and engine oil twice and around 6 tanks of e85 to run it in
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zFw2CXWogMKhhLxp9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7VTcGFZSki7fRwvi6
my contribution to global warming:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tbFr9Y99x115tvG97
two days later run in on the dyno, took around 12hrs of cold start, run, 60/80/90/40/120 kmph with dyno load to simulate up and down hills. Consistant overheating as the mazda spec settings for timing burns the **** out of everything inside the engine. Even with the twin fans, water spray, all fans running the car was shooting up from 65 to 92deg within 25min. We ended up running a hose from the tap and drain outside and kept each run to 40mins
the ceramic coating efr is glowing read hot!: https://photos.app.goo.gl/eQugpjTDNJxWP4v58
changed the coolant, plugs and engine oil twice and around 6 tanks of e85 to run it in