Talk about leaving us on the edge of our seats, that was just cruel!! Jerk. Haha I wait in anticipation for the next update..

 

Can't wait to see what happened next !! Chapter 4 FTW!

 

What a great looking car!

 

Yea you're killing me.

 

The suspenders are killing me, we need part 4!!

This has been left on a bigger clif hanger than lost at the end of series 2!!

 

Really loving those midrange gains Logan. I'm really shocked that 20b's have this much potential. Can't wait to see Chapter 4. Keep up the rotary related R&D.

 

This will be a long update, but here goes

So to continue up on............

Part 4!!

All the revisions made for a nice improvement. I shortened the intake a bit more to shift the torque higher, and the experimental exhaust changes boosted torque VERY well.

Two downsides to this dyno session-

First- I only had a couple days to make changes and get back to the facility. (hard to get dyno time). So I installed three 1600cc injectors in the secondaries, since that what was laying around. Needless to say 1600cc injectors are not atomize friendly AT ALL!

Secondly- The 1600's didnt mount correctly into the fuel rail, so some band aids were made on the dyno (like a awesome zip tie) to make it work. This took up extra time, and I rushed the tune. Afr's at peak torque were 13.4 and going to 14.0 in the 9-10k range. 8+ more ft-lbs were on the table!! Which could have hit 465 or so.

So here is the chart-



So there it is, 282 rwtq and 452rwhp The torque gain was awesome. I felt some higher numbers could be within reach without too much trouble.

Chapter 5- Refinement of a excellent system

Striking a bit of luck we were able to convince slowmotion (shop with dyno) to let us on again in two days. I didnt change a whole lot, just some minor adjustments of what was working.

Result?



475rwhp Outstanding

But you guys can notice a torque loss. 277rwtq is still excellent, but a loss. Looks like the intake ports have finally maxed out. I never dreamed 1" p-ports could go this far, so cant complain. Basically larger p-ports or possibly just bigger sideport ITB diameter is needed. The sideports are on a 52mm throat size, because I felt 55mm was too large with semi p-port at 10k rpm. A close estimation.

So here are some raw footage from the dyno runs, before we make a nice vid. You can see the 1600cc injectors are not doing a great job. But it worked







Chapter 5- complete inspection, streamlining, and slight disaster.

So this brings us up to my most current efforts. Since I had almost three weeks of time, all the stops were pulled to try and tap on 500's front door! While the engine itself was definitely maxed on breathing capacity, I felt making EVERY part and componet perfect might net the torque in the 287 range. 12ft-lbs would allow 500 rwhp. So what did I do? I removed the entire exhaust, and intake and looked at every detail. Remeasured every pipe with the upmost care. Modifications were much more intense this time. The intake recieved some changes I've never even heard of before haha. 10 things in total were improved-

1) Ordered three ID 1000cc injectors to replace the historic 1600cc.
2) Header was made to be true equal length, instead of the unequal method used before
3) New internal intake modifications for increased torque
4) Added three o2 bungs to each header pipe to aid in exact tuning
5) Put high temp silicone on each exhaust slip fit connection, and put saftely tabs on to eliminate any pressure drop
6) Made air boxes for both side port and p-port intakes (this always gains 1-2hp)
7) Intake gasket re-checked and port matched to eliminate some areas of turbulance
8) Header length re-adjusted a final time to PERFECTLY match my intake/exhaust math ratio
9) Finally run the proper smaller diameter main pulley to prevent waterpump cavation. Which gains 1hp or so too
10) Try race gas for the first time, 100 octane

So all little things, but little things add up. I went back to the dyno with some good hopes.

Did 4 pulls, all of which were SUPER lean. Of course using the 1000cc instead of 1600cc took some time to dial in. Even with 14:1 afr torque was already at 274ft-lbs. 13.1 vs 14.1 on my engine is a difference of over 13ft-lbs, 287-289ft-lbs was a reality.

Things were looking great..... and then.............. it destroyed 3rd gear. How the hell do you break a dogbox transmission, in 3rd gear, on the dyno?? No gear changing, no clutch releasing, just smooth pulls. At 6,000 rpm it totally generated 3rd gear. 1st gear still works and was enough to put it on the trailor. So sad. 10k rpm must be really stressful on parts I guess. Good news is that is on video A employee happened to be taking a vid of it right when the gear broke. Should have that posted soon too.

Still amazed that going from 410rwhp all the way to 475rwhp was possible strictly by tuning the exhaust length and intake design. Next step... going inside the engine finally

Almost victory........... almost.........

 

This is awesome! Thoroughly impressed!

An update on my car would be nice also.

 

Thank you sir! Its coming soon, just need those damn irons back. We are bugging him everyday.

 

Nice as usual Logan. I know you had/have your own dyno, what's up with having to go somewhere else to dyno? Also, you haven't made me feel very confident about my transmission choice..

 

I think you'll hit 500 or very close before the race gas. I'd try it before putting the 100 in. In all reality, you could have probably just done a race gas tune without the other 9 things and hit 500.

 

Awesome. Now, you can't tell me at this point throwing a 200 shot on there and ripping down the strip hasn't crossed your mind...

What kind of changes do you want to do internally, or is that classified? Maybe it's blasphemy, but do you think even cutting some secondary bridges and closing the intake ports a bit later (closer to the closing timing of the p-port) would help boost your top-end just to over 500? If your P-ports are maxed out, you might be able to get that little extra from the sideports...

Or then again, maybe it's time to go bigger on the p-ports!

 

First off, even though it goes without saying because it shouts it itself just fine, congratulations and good work.

That said, I'm curious as to why there are so many peaks (and subsequent dips) in the power. Any thoughts on what's causing it and how it might be flattened out?

Looking forward to more developments.

 

Solid fab work

 

We sold our dynos when we moved to our larger building. The cost was eating us alive. Definitely wish we still had them sometimes! Yeah the tranny is surprising. Maybe they just are not rated for 10k rpm for extended and repeated periods of time? Will be sending it to them for repairs and see what they say about it


That was my plan, I was tuning on 92 octane first and once it landed on the final number throw in the race gas. Pump gas keeps getting worse and worse, with all the ethanol they are adding. So might run only race gas soon since it only gets road raced at this point anyway.


Haha, it crossed my mind for a second but that clutch hates drag starts. And If I have to roll into it that wouldnt be much fun. Then the fear of something going wrong like fracture a ceramic seal.... so prolly wont happen.

Nah, only a few things on this car are classified My plans are to install triple spark plugs, lap and re-nitrate the side housings, go a little larger on the p-ports. If I can somehow afford it, some exotic rotors. Nothing too elaborate, but should be effective. Thought about sideport timing, I doubt it will change but ya never know!

Thanks calculon! The dips are from my right foot. I have been manually opening the p-ports during the dyno run because it creates more torque under 4500rpm. Sometimes I do not open them at the same rpm each time, because its hard to do lol. But that large dip in all the dyno charts are from me opening the p-ports. I didnt want to waste dyno time tuning that transition yet until the final setup is completed, so the dips remain for now. Next time around it should be electronic on p-port opening so easier to tune by far.

 

Logan do you think any of this new found gains could possibly translate to a side port engine also. Like say, I dunno the one youre building me? 400WHP on just side ports and under 9krpm would be incredible.

 

Your car sounds freaking awesome. We don't get many people over here in the uk attempting such things as what you are doing. Most of the people are all about turbo power.

One person did a 3rotor PP and I don't think he even made 450fwhp which is disappointing. I actually don't think he even made 400fwhp come to think of it. and now has gone to a side port only 3rotor because he didn't like the MPG he was getting with the crap power.

I don't think there are many gear boxs that will take 10,000rpm full stop, not just your gear box.

Keep up the good work and good luck in your quest for 500!!!

 

Wow...by far the most extensive build i've seen on a forum so far...and I thought the 350z guys get creative lol

 

Logan,

What do you estimate a sideport(no p-port) 20b with the stock oil/water pumps is capable of, for those of us not interested in a drysump/dogbox setup?

 

If I may answer for Logan, this is essentially what I am building. I am going with a dry sump, as well as the dogbox just for the piece of mind of the drysump, and quicker shifts of the dogbox, but neither are probably "necessary". We are estimating 360whp, but there are a few unknowns such as the ITB setup on the sideports. I wouldnt be suprised at all to see 380whp+ from my engine, at least Im hoping. I think on a recent dyno session, with the PPorts capped off, running a shortened stock 20B intake and 90mm TB, Logan pulled right around 350whp. You are limited to ~8500rpm or so with the stock oiling system, and thats about the limit where the stock tranny will like to be shifted at all as well. Anything past that RPM is where you are talking sinking in a ton more money. New housings, ceramic seals, dry sump, etc.

 

Damn... getting these Photobucket 2032 errors when I try to play the videos. Anyone else have the same problem or is it something with my settings? Congrats again!!! So, what breaks up in the tranny at +10K rpm??

 

The new findings will directly correlate to a sideport engine. As most of the gains were not p-port related. 25-35hp is the gains a sideport engine under 9k will get vs. were I was at before. IDK about 400rwhp, but maybe. If I have some time I will do a pull with p-ports capped off. It wont be a great indicator, because I designed the exhaust to resonate at 8.5-9.5k. Sideports alone wont flow really well there, so torque will suffer. Be cool for a reference though.

Looks like the transmission didnt break a gear. I drained the fluid and there are no chunks in it. If I had to guess the pressed in dog ring separated from the gear. There were lots of metallic metal in the oil. It looked like metallic red paint. So something wore away or metal on metal rubbing. Will tear it apart soon, but going to take a bit of a risk and go back to dyno and use 4th gear. Need to get a final number before engine mods!

 

Wow crazy stuff never knew a n/a rotary could make that kind of power

 

How much further will you increase the pports by?

Would your setup work with full pports? Or would that make it extremely difficult to set up?

 

Not sure just yet. I'll have our engineer run some numbers and get it matched with the flow increase I need. When I get the housings machined larger, I plan on making inserts to reduce the diameter. That way two or even three setups will be possible. Such as long track st1, and short track st1.

Full p-port can work with the setup, it would just be too much airflow when sideports are used.