When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
The dispute that was opened by the buyer on Paypal is for a full refund, the buyer never once asked for a partial refund or a repair job.
This is why I told the buyer that he can get a full refund if he is willing to pay the 5% re-stocking fees, shipping costs that I had paid and the items to be returned which is according to the Paypal Buyer and Seller Protection Policy.
As for the 5% re-stocking fees, I added that to the invoice just in case because tire removal costs money, I didn't charge the buyer for that. It's not fair on me either losing out on money if the buyer doesn't like a set of used wheels.
I have no idea what the buyer wants, either he wants to keep the wheels for free, wants a partial refund payment or I don't even know to be honest.
for that price and the description of a super clean this is far from the actual description no matter how you interpret the definition of "SUPER CLEAN"
no one should tell you how to package the rims. someone is gonna give you a "heads up" that they need some sort of padding for protection?
restocking fees.. what a bunch of BS. Arent you a private entity ? do you actually have a "stock" to require restocking fees ?
you fucked up 100%. with the exception of the covid related delay, the rest is just bullshit excuses. give the buyer what he wants and let that be a lesson for your future sales.
The re-stocking fee is one of the things that gets me. You are not a paying vendor here on this forum and in my opinion, if you are acting as a business here, should be paying vendor fees like the rest of the vendors which pay and support this forum. I will discuss with the moderator team here @Gen2n3@Narfle,etc.
To reiterate the post above, the SELLER is responsible for packing. Given the premium price of these wheels and the known distance they had to travel, better packing would have been warranted. IIRC these were being sold for $3k. Used or not, these were represented as "Super Clean" - that in itself means no corrosion bubbles in the finish.
Last edited by FourtyOunce; Jul 29, 2020 at 11:11 AM.
The re-stocking fee is one of the things that gets me. You are not a paying vendor here on this forum and in my opinion, if you are acting as a business here, should be paying vendor fees like the rest of the vendors which pay and support this forum. I will discuss with the moderator team here @Gen2n3@Narfle,etc.
Do reiterate the post above, the SELLER is responsible for packing. Given the premium price of these wheels and the known distance they had to travel, better packing would have been warranted. IIRC these were being sold for $3k. Used or not, these were represented as "Super Clean" - that in itself means no corrosion bubbles in the finish.
The wheels were sold through facebook, not a single pm was exchanged over here. I don't think this thread should be on the forums then?
However I used the link from the sale thread that was posted here on the paypal invoice.
The wheels were sold through facebook, not a single pm was exchanged over here. I don't think this thread should be on the forums then?
However I used the link from the sale thread that was posted here on the paypal invoice.
i suppose i can freely scam anyone outside of this forum...
again. stop with the BS excuses. do the right thing.
The qualities of a person are shown with how he handles the situation when **** goes wrong.
The wheels were sold through facebook, not a single pm was exchanged over here. I don't think this thread should be on the forums then?
However I used the link from the sale thread that was posted here on the paypal invoice.
And that most members do go back and forth between here and facebook, this thread belongs here 100%. Your current tact is total bull. If you want to go this route, then sell your things on FB and social media and stay off the classified here. If you want to go this route, I will gladly delete all your GB interest and FS threads.
Having dealt with fahad myself on a few occasions, I can say theres definitely a misunderstanding here. Hes a really good guy and does business well. In this circumstance I do think it's being blown out a little more than it is. So long as I'm seeing the situation properly, the primary issue(s) seem to be seemingly poor packing and the wheels being more beat up than advertised.
I will go ahead and assume the wheels were never going to be used as is to begin with. Fahad does a good job at packing things and his point is accurate in that if you order a 5000$ set of wheels from advan, they will arrive in regular boxes with hand holes in them, a thin cardboard sheet and some cloth coverings.
They weren't packed in a manner that they would be overly susceptible to damage, as he indicated they were packed in actual wheel boxes. The same type of box a wheel would be shipped in if purchased new. As that stands, it's not fair to blame him for the condition of the box the way it arrived. He wasn't the one handling them as they travelled across the world. He also sent pictures of the wheels AS THEY WERE BEING PACKED.
If the concern for packaging was as great as you're making it seem, I feel like you would have addressed it at that point. Its extremely clear how they were being shipped. If you had a concern about it, that was your opportunity to bring it up. You can't be aware of how theyre packaged and then complain about it when you receive it. You knew before the box was sealed.
my conclusion is there is no real foul here. The shipping time is out of everyone's control. The wheels arrived in at least 90% of the perceived/advertised condition. Fahad seems to have been very communicative throughout the entire process, which is more than what most people here in the states do. Assuming the wheels would be refinished, theres nothing shown that wouldn't very easily come out during that process.
get the wheels refinished and let it go. You weren't wronged in any way. Structurally, they are fine. You're complaint seems to be about the cosmetics, which is highly subjective. Fahad had no ill intent and no intention to deceive. He advertised them accurately based on his perception. It's the duty of the buyer to challenge that perception and request representation in a manner that will either agree or disagree with what's being advertised.
.
I just have to respond to this:
If I remember correctly, you sold me a carbon fiber intake that you described as having a scratch, but when I received it, was actually a crack on the clear coat. I brought it to your attention and you did a partial refund quickly. End of story. I wasn’t fully happy but you coming thru was good enough for me.
Almost the same scenario here, I bought the wheels as advertised, received the wheels way different than was advertised, brought it to his attention and his response was essentially, tough luck.
So what’s the difference here? Fahad.
I bought the wheels as they were advertised, I should receive the wheels as advertised. That’s plain simple.
Strap it to a rocket, use snail mail, I don’t care but make sure I get the item as advertised. Very simple concept.
Pack it the way you want it, put flowers if you want, but make sure I get it as advertised. Clear as day.
Do you have $600.00 laying around to check the integrity and refinish the wheels? Will you be willing to chip in more money to a supposedly good condition wheels so we can all move forward? Would you drive a car knowingly fully well that the wheels were subjected to abuses and possibly compromised?
And that most members do go back and forth between here and facebook, this thread belongs here 100%. Your current tact is total bull. If you want to go this route, then sell your things on FB and social media and stay off the classified here. If you want to go this route, I will gladly delete all your GB interest and FS threads.
I remember last time I had an issue with a Facebook sale which was also posted on rx7club fs section.
I had messaged you asking that the buyer had linked the rx7club thread link but you replied with it’s not a “forum issue.” So how has this become a forum issue because since it was a facebook sale just like the other one. Is it because rx7fighter is your friend?
No one helped me out back then even though I had messaged several mods.
Last edited by FourtyOunce; Jul 31, 2020 at 08:33 PM.
Yea, and when a seller hides issues, or provides partial information, it's perfectly normal to out them as being dishonest as yet another recourse by the buyer. While irrelevant to the current situation due to Fahad being located outside the US, American law has tons of provisions regarding sellers misrepresenting product and being liable. Fahad is perfectly within his legal rights to wash his hands of this, but I have a feeling that'll speak worse on him compared to the buyer, since Fahad has been establishing himself as a commercial entity, ZK Motoring I think was the name I've seen go around.
Originally Posted by [color=#222222
fzkhan7]
2) Okay, I didn't use any packing material inside of the box, the buyer was shown how the wheels were placed in the box, rather then giving a thumbs up he could have told me to add some packing material and I would have. Secondly even if I didn't use any packing material there is no physical damage to the wheels as they can be clearly seen in the pictures posted by the buyer.
[/color]
Improper packing is the responsibility of the seller, and it's pretty stupid to expect the customer to divine that the seller didn't pack things properly from a few photos. How Advan packs their wheels is largely irrelevant. More often than not, they are packed in far thicker boxes, have additional material in the corners, and are usually palletized during the majority/entirety of their journey. You'll notice that their boxes don't arrive in the condition yours did. That's entirely a result of shipping method used, again the seller's responsibility.
As for the 5% re-stocking fees, I added that to the invoice just in case because tire removal costs money, I didn't charge the buyer for that. It's not fair on me either losing out on money if the buyer doesn't like a set of used wheels.
Then disclose that at the beginning of the transaction. Springing that on someone after the fact is pretty unethical. Businesses can charge restocking fees because they disclose that in their terms of service prior to the transaction being completed. Even then, it's becoming a less common practice here in the states at least. Ironically, you probably could have shipped the wheels with the tires, and the tires would have buffered the wheels from shipping damages.
Having dealt with fahad myself on a few occasions, I can say theres definitely a misunderstanding here. Hes a really good guy and does business well. In this circumstance I do think it's being blown out a little more than it is. So long as I'm seeing the situation properly, the primary issue(s) seem to be seemingly poor packing and the wheels being more beat up than advertised.
I will go ahead and assume the wheels were never going to be used as is to begin with. Fahad does a good job at packing things and his point is accurate in that if you order a 5000$ set of wheels from advan, they will arrive in regular boxes with hand holes in them, a thin cardboard sheet and some cloth coverings.
They weren't packed in a manner that they would be overly susceptible to damage, as he indicated they were packed in actual wheel boxes. The same type of box a wheel would be shipped in if purchased new. As that stands, it's not fair to blame him for the condition of the box the way it arrived. He wasn't the one handling them as they travelled across the world. He also sent pictures of the wheels AS THEY WERE BEING PACKED.
If the concern for packaging was as great as you're making it seem, I feel like you would have addressed it at that point. Its extremely clear how they were being shipped. If you had a concern about it, that was your opportunity to bring it up. You can't be aware of how theyre packaged and then complain about it when you receive it. You knew before the box was sealed.
my conclusion is there is no real foul here. The shipping time is out of everyone's control. The wheels arrived in at least 90% of the perceived/advertised condition. Fahad seems to have been very communicative throughout the entire process, which is more than what most people here in the states do. Assuming the wheels would be refinished, theres nothing shown that wouldn't very easily come out during that process.
get the wheels refinished and let it go. You weren't wronged in any way. Structurally, they are fine. You're complaint seems to be about the cosmetics, which is highly subjective. Fahad had no ill intent and no intention to deceive. He advertised them accurately based on his perception. It's the duty of the buyer to challenge that perception and request representation in a manner that will either agree or disagree with what's being advertised.
This. Plus where it's mentioned that everyone's perception of 'clean' will be different to varying degrees. Personally, I say the shipping process is most at fault.
I remember last time I had an issue with a Facebook sale which was also posted on rx7club fs section.
I had messaged you asking that the buyer had linked the rx7club thread link but you replied with it’s not a “forum issue.” So how has this become a forum issue because since it was a facebook sale just like the other one. Is it because rx7fighter is your friend?
No one helped me out back then even though I had messaged several mods.
Your reply highlights the issue already raised - the fine line when you do business with FB and the forum at the same time. It's laughable that you are accusing me of bias, when you are trying to snake your way out. AFAIK, you can be "friends" on facebook, but perhaps not really be actual "friends". The issue here remains - you are trying to distract. Do the right thing. This post stays.
PS. FWIW, I recall searching for the member you referenced in the screen shot above ("irfan") and the name did not come up as a member, and that is why it was a Facebook issue.
Last edited by FourtyOunce; Jul 31, 2020 at 08:33 PM.
@fzkhan7 you do a fair bit of interest gathering and advertising here, including these wheels. And, the dispute is between you and another known member. I don't think you'll slide by on some sort of jurisdictional grievance.
The wheels should have been packed better. It speaks to your business quality.
The wheels are well short of "Super Clean"
You should take some accountability from this, as we expect from other forum vendors.
If you choose not to make amends, then you are risking your status and privileges on this forum. We could be a lot stricter about your business and interest threads here.
I remember last time I had an issue with a Facebook sale which was also posted on rx7club fs section.
I had messaged you asking that the buyer had linked the rx7club thread link but you replied with it’s not a “forum issue.” So how has this become a forum issue because since it was a facebook sale just like the other one. Is it because rx7fighter is your friend?
No one helped me out back then even though I had messaged several mods.
Woah.. stop digging your hole deeper there. Stop! JUST STOP! Seriously, you are just looking for sympathy now.
I posted a comment here on your FS listing first before I started a conversation with you thru Messenger.
That makes this a forum issue. YOU, just like FourtyOunce, was on my FB Friends. To say that there was a collusion and playing favorites is totally out of line.
I didn’t even know you have a separate FB page for your company. If it wasn’t for this forum, I would’ve never found out about the wheels.
Last edited by FourtyOunce; Jul 31, 2020 at 08:33 PM.
5% restocking fee is about 150 bucks. That's the only real chintzy thing I see here. The wheels are nice, but they're also 20 year old used wheels for $3000+ dollars.
5% restocking fee is about 150 bucks. That's the only real chintzy thing I see here. The wheels are nice, but they're also 20 year old used wheels for $3000+ dollars.
Probably why they didn't sell for almost a year.
5% plus the shipping fee paid first to him before he give a refund. So 112 + 520 before I can get a refund.
WAIT A MINUTE! I PAID FOR THE SHIPPING and I AM PAYING HIM AGAIN plus me shipping it back? That’s some high level calculus there.
This was not a free shipping transaction! You are greedy!
Not that anyone asked, but there's lessons to be learned and blame to be passed around on both sides here. These can probably be applied to any transaction... and yes, Monday morning quarterbacking is easy.
1) BUYER. Get photos. LOTS of photos. If you're about to send a chunk of money and buy something from half way around the globe, know EXACTLY what you're buying. Front-Left, Front-Right, Rear-Left, Rear-Right. Close ups, multiple angles, detailed shots, etc, etc. One, if the seller doesn't provide all that, it's a red flag. Two, if he does, you now know the precise condition what you're buying so even if the package is packed perfectly and STILL endures shipping damage - you can cite exactly what was damaged.
2) SELLER. Pack **** properly. I can't tell you how many times I've said "bubble wrap is cheap, problems are not". Bubble wrap, cardboard, towels - it doesn't matter. That packing job isn't acceptable for a shipment going 70 miles, let alone 7000. I pack wheels better than that in the trunk of my car.
3) BUYER. You can't claim a full PayPal refund without shipping the wheels back. It doesn't matter if you have to ship them back to Pakistan or Antarctica. That's where they came from, that's where you need to ship them. After that, I think full refund, no restocking fee. If you want to keep them and refinish them (which, sounded like the plan anyhow, no?) you can claim a *partial* refund from PayPal, because although they might not be in the condition you originally thought, they are FAR from worthless. If you get a full refund and keep the wheels, that's stealing.
4) SELLER. You need to accurately describe your products. Don't be vague. The best course of action is always the Golden Rule - "how would I feel if I bought this item with this description?". "Super Clean" is probably a term I've used in the past, but it's gotta accurately describe the product. If you're selling a high dollar item that's less than perfect, you need to highlight ALL the imperfections. Period, end of story.
I'm really of two minds here. On one hand, the description is questionable at best and it FOR SURE wasn't packed properly. But on the other hand, the damaged doesn't seem SO bad that a good refinish/powdercoat couldn't fix them.
If I were judge, jury and executioner... I say get a quote for refinishing/powdercoating - then have the seller pick up 20% of the bill.
I agree, I believe some partial compensation and compromise are in order. The number I have in mind is $300us, which is half the cost of return shipping and restocking.
When it all comes down to it, both of you can resolve this by agreeing to some sort of partial refund. Probably the best and most reasonable resolution.
