JHB PERFORMANCE: poor quality, poor communication
12-26-06, 03:49 PM
#1
JHB PERFORMANCE: poor quality, poor communication
I am reluctantly making this thread as a report to the rotary community on my dealings with JHB performance in Canada over the last 2 years regarding their cermet resurfaced rotorhousings.
There is a lot of drawn out BS here, so I did the best I could to break it down in a timeline for simplicity. I have paypal records and old emails to back up everything stated here except for the few phone conversations.
First, my experience and impression of the actual product (with no thought given to the business aspects, turnaround time, etc.):
Of the few housings I actually received, most were kind of rough as far as the housing itself. There were dents and nicks on the mating surfaces for the coolant seals, some had to be filed down and/or filled in before use. Some of the housings had missing exhaust sleeves. Most had missing or broken exhaust and intake studs. Some had internal and external corrosion and pitting. Some had previous attempts at porting that required extra time to massage into a halfway decent shape. Each housing required about 30-60 minutes of prep time before it was useable in an engine.
The cermet surface itself appeared excellent. The first batch of housings that I built 3 engines from all performed perfectly, just like new OEM rotorhousings. I have not had any long term reports on them, as you normally cannot track where your engine builds go or how they do unless someone has a problem with them and complains. Two sets were used in near-stock FC builds, one set was used in a 450rwhp halfbridge T78 FD, all started with around 105psi compression and developed about 115-120 once broken in. All were running well the last time I spoke to their owners.
The second batch of 9 housings were all defective, and I found this out only after building an expensive 20B and having to re-rebuild it with OEM housings after the JHB products were found to be bad. The defect was not readily detectable, nor was it consistent, so it was hard to spot.
TIMELINE FOR DEALINGS WITH JHB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12-25-04 Sent initial deposit $885 to begin work on 8 housings
1-12-05 Sent balance $1725 for 8 housings plus shipping.
1-18-05 UPS stops tracking housing shipment and says they are lost. JHB promises to resolve the issue with UPS themselves and replace the housings immediately.
2-23-05 Housings still not received, poor communication from JHB. Filed Paypal claim for both payments.
3-18-05 Paypal refunds the $885 payment due to non-receipt. JHB doesnt have funds to cover the second payment, so they talk me into releasing the second claim long enough for them to receive payment from other customers to refund me.
4-13-05 I am refunded $1300 of the $1725 I am owed almost a month after agreed. IT is decided that once JHB gets their act together and has housings to send me that the difference ($425) will be applied toward a new order.
10-25-05 Send payment of $1465 for 6 housings, in combination with the $425 that I am still owed from the previous deal. Housings are received and used in builds with no major issues.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3-14-06 Despite the issues with the first order I decide to go ahead and order another batch. Send payment of $2700 for 9 housings, including (3) for a 20B build. Housings are received in a relatively timely manner, but not all at once. The 20B is built first, since it was for a waiting customer.
5-10-06 JHB finally gets the last housing to me that I'd been waiting on since 3-14-06.
5-20-06 I inform JHB that the 20B build using their housings had to be torn down and re-rebuilt with different housings because theirs were defective causing very weak compression and poor sealing. I LOST MONEY having to do the remove/rebuild/reinstall on the 20B job twice, as well as made the customer mad that he had to wait so long.
5-24-06 JHB replies and states the housings will be warrantied immediately. I ask that they pay for shipping and provide a label for me to send them out with.
7-4-06 I still had not received a reply from JHB about shipping/warranty on the housings, and fire off another email. JHB replies and offers to send a fedex label for me to ship with.
7-29-06 JHB still has not supplied a label for me to ship with, and instead agrees to reimburse me for shipping that I pay for.
8-4-06 I ship out the 9 housings and JHB immediately reimburses me.
9-6-06 I ask for an update on my housing repair/exchange and am told they are being worked on, a few are done, the equipment is having problems and is being worked on before the rest of my housings are done. I'm told to check back in a couple of weeks.
9-25-06, 10-10-06, 10-30-06 I ask again for an update. Each time I am given the same exact explanation as above and told to check back in 2 weeks. I begin asking if it's possible to simply negotiate some sort of fair refund and go our seperate ways, and am told no each time, that I will get my quality housings.
11-13-06 Call JHB and am given the exact same explanation as above, again. I ask to be kept in the loop as far as an ETA for my housings, and Marc promises to call or email me every couple of weeks to let me know where we stand.
12-1-06 After not hearing anything, I contact JHB again and explain why the delay and poor communication is unacceptable. I tell them that I need the housings by the end of 2006 or I'll be forced to make a full report to the rotary community about my experiences, as well as pursue the possibility of chargeback protection.
12-6-06 I am informed that JHB will likely not meet my "deadline" and basically that I will get them when they say so... and not to worry about my $2700 investment from back in March because "it is safe with them".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLIFFS FOR THOSE TOO LAZY TO READ THE ABOVE:
I order housings from JHB and pay for them. UPS loses them, JHB promises to replace them but does not. I get most of the money back via paypal. Eventually I place another order, get the housings, and use them with no real problems though there are minor defects on all of the housings that I do get.
I order more housings, use one set in an engine, find them ALL to be bad. JHB takes a long time about getting back to me about the warranty and shipping. I finally do get to send them back and wait almost 4 months, all the while being told that some of them are done and the rest will be done soon, to check back in 2 weeks, and 2 weeks later being told the same thing. Four months later, I still have no housings and no $2700. JHB tells me I'll get them when they say so and not until, and the refuse to refund me anything in the meantime, and if I don't like it then it's just too bad.
Obviously, I recommend against anyone doing business with this company based upon their track record for poor communication, slow turnaround, and a mediocre product that usually requires more work to make them useable in an engine than they should. Getting a straight answer/communication from JHB is like pulling teeth! I prefer to correspond via email, and Marc claims that it is best to reach him on the phone as that is his preference. Yet half the time when I did call, I get voicemail.
There is a lot of drawn out BS here, so I did the best I could to break it down in a timeline for simplicity. I have paypal records and old emails to back up everything stated here except for the few phone conversations.
First, my experience and impression of the actual product (with no thought given to the business aspects, turnaround time, etc.):
Of the few housings I actually received, most were kind of rough as far as the housing itself. There were dents and nicks on the mating surfaces for the coolant seals, some had to be filed down and/or filled in before use. Some of the housings had missing exhaust sleeves. Most had missing or broken exhaust and intake studs. Some had internal and external corrosion and pitting. Some had previous attempts at porting that required extra time to massage into a halfway decent shape. Each housing required about 30-60 minutes of prep time before it was useable in an engine.
The cermet surface itself appeared excellent. The first batch of housings that I built 3 engines from all performed perfectly, just like new OEM rotorhousings. I have not had any long term reports on them, as you normally cannot track where your engine builds go or how they do unless someone has a problem with them and complains. Two sets were used in near-stock FC builds, one set was used in a 450rwhp halfbridge T78 FD, all started with around 105psi compression and developed about 115-120 once broken in. All were running well the last time I spoke to their owners.
The second batch of 9 housings were all defective, and I found this out only after building an expensive 20B and having to re-rebuild it with OEM housings after the JHB products were found to be bad. The defect was not readily detectable, nor was it consistent, so it was hard to spot.
TIMELINE FOR DEALINGS WITH JHB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12-25-04 Sent initial deposit $885 to begin work on 8 housings
1-12-05 Sent balance $1725 for 8 housings plus shipping.
1-18-05 UPS stops tracking housing shipment and says they are lost. JHB promises to resolve the issue with UPS themselves and replace the housings immediately.
2-23-05 Housings still not received, poor communication from JHB. Filed Paypal claim for both payments.
3-18-05 Paypal refunds the $885 payment due to non-receipt. JHB doesnt have funds to cover the second payment, so they talk me into releasing the second claim long enough for them to receive payment from other customers to refund me.
4-13-05 I am refunded $1300 of the $1725 I am owed almost a month after agreed. IT is decided that once JHB gets their act together and has housings to send me that the difference ($425) will be applied toward a new order.
10-25-05 Send payment of $1465 for 6 housings, in combination with the $425 that I am still owed from the previous deal. Housings are received and used in builds with no major issues.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3-14-06 Despite the issues with the first order I decide to go ahead and order another batch. Send payment of $2700 for 9 housings, including (3) for a 20B build. Housings are received in a relatively timely manner, but not all at once. The 20B is built first, since it was for a waiting customer.
5-10-06 JHB finally gets the last housing to me that I'd been waiting on since 3-14-06.
5-20-06 I inform JHB that the 20B build using their housings had to be torn down and re-rebuilt with different housings because theirs were defective causing very weak compression and poor sealing. I LOST MONEY having to do the remove/rebuild/reinstall on the 20B job twice, as well as made the customer mad that he had to wait so long.
5-24-06 JHB replies and states the housings will be warrantied immediately. I ask that they pay for shipping and provide a label for me to send them out with.
7-4-06 I still had not received a reply from JHB about shipping/warranty on the housings, and fire off another email. JHB replies and offers to send a fedex label for me to ship with.
7-29-06 JHB still has not supplied a label for me to ship with, and instead agrees to reimburse me for shipping that I pay for.
8-4-06 I ship out the 9 housings and JHB immediately reimburses me.
9-6-06 I ask for an update on my housing repair/exchange and am told they are being worked on, a few are done, the equipment is having problems and is being worked on before the rest of my housings are done. I'm told to check back in a couple of weeks.
9-25-06, 10-10-06, 10-30-06 I ask again for an update. Each time I am given the same exact explanation as above and told to check back in 2 weeks. I begin asking if it's possible to simply negotiate some sort of fair refund and go our seperate ways, and am told no each time, that I will get my quality housings.
11-13-06 Call JHB and am given the exact same explanation as above, again. I ask to be kept in the loop as far as an ETA for my housings, and Marc promises to call or email me every couple of weeks to let me know where we stand.
12-1-06 After not hearing anything, I contact JHB again and explain why the delay and poor communication is unacceptable. I tell them that I need the housings by the end of 2006 or I'll be forced to make a full report to the rotary community about my experiences, as well as pursue the possibility of chargeback protection.
12-6-06 I am informed that JHB will likely not meet my "deadline" and basically that I will get them when they say so... and not to worry about my $2700 investment from back in March because "it is safe with them".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLIFFS FOR THOSE TOO LAZY TO READ THE ABOVE:
I order housings from JHB and pay for them. UPS loses them, JHB promises to replace them but does not. I get most of the money back via paypal. Eventually I place another order, get the housings, and use them with no real problems though there are minor defects on all of the housings that I do get.
I order more housings, use one set in an engine, find them ALL to be bad. JHB takes a long time about getting back to me about the warranty and shipping. I finally do get to send them back and wait almost 4 months, all the while being told that some of them are done and the rest will be done soon, to check back in 2 weeks, and 2 weeks later being told the same thing. Four months later, I still have no housings and no $2700. JHB tells me I'll get them when they say so and not until, and the refuse to refund me anything in the meantime, and if I don't like it then it's just too bad.
Obviously, I recommend against anyone doing business with this company based upon their track record for poor communication, slow turnaround, and a mediocre product that usually requires more work to make them useable in an engine than they should. Getting a straight answer/communication from JHB is like pulling teeth! I prefer to correspond via email, and Marc claims that it is best to reach him on the phone as that is his preference. Yet half the time when I did call, I get voicemail.
12-26-06, 05:14 PM
#2
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yea, last i heard theyre negotiating something with some shipping company. i am supposed to either get my housings or my money "whenever it is resolved"
helps me out a bunch let me tell you.
I can tell you what the problem is with shipping, if you dont already know. Im not one to air laundry tho but i know an exact detailed reason for all the lost shipments and why they were not insured when shipped.
kevin.
helps me out a bunch let me tell you.
I can tell you what the problem is with shipping, if you dont already know. Im not one to air laundry tho but i know an exact detailed reason for all the lost shipments and why they were not insured when shipped.
kevin.
12-26-06, 06:01 PM
#4
Will work for horsepower
I didnt need to here this Kevin!! I still havn't started the motor with there housings and coated rotors yet! I guess i will just hope for the best! I did here of some issues useing there housings with ceramic seals. Not starting when hot. Well anyway good luck Kevin i hope you can come out ok. If you have any suggestions on what to look for on my motor please let me know. Thanks
12-26-06, 08:53 PM
#5
Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
So wait..you had some shipped and lost as well?
I dont want to get involved, I just remember this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/lounge-192/friendly-little-letter-589324/
12-26-06, 09:45 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Busted7
I didnt need to here this Kevin!! I still havn't started the motor with there housings and coated rotors yet! I guess i will just hope for the best! I did here of some issues useing there housings with ceramic seals. Not starting when hot. Well anyway good luck Kevin i hope you can come out ok. If you have any suggestions on what to look for on my motor please let me know. Thanks
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12-26-06, 11:00 PM
#10
Will work for horsepower
I do belive they were on the shelf at Rx7 specialities, they looked good from what i could see from outside and did have some rotating compression. Adam said it was clearenced and looked good. But im still nervous! The shipping co. lost it on the way there for about a week, and lost it again for a week on the way back, what is it with Canada eeh? I also have build pictures and the coating looks good as far as you can tell without measureing them. I need to get the haltech finished and start the motor to know for sure. Thanks kevin!
12-26-06, 11:26 PM
#11
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Originally Posted by Busted7
I do belive they were on the shelf at Rx7 specialities, they looked good from what i could see from outside and did have some rotating compression. Adam said it was clearenced and looked good. But im still nervous! The shipping co. lost it on the way there for about a week, and lost it again for a week on the way back, what is it with Canada eeh? I also have build pictures and the coating looks good as far as you can tell without measureing them. I need to get the haltech finished and start the motor to know for sure. Thanks kevin!
James
12-27-06, 12:55 PM
#12
Oddly enough, after months of dodgy communication between us, it only took Marc about 3 hours to see this post and start firing off angry and impatient emails. It seems that after keeping me waiting for MONTHS, he feels that I should not have made this post 5 days earlier than my originally stated 1-1-07 "deadline" that I told him I wanted my housings to be in my hands by.
He claims he was planning to have my housings by then. However, if this were indeed the case, I would have had a tracking number several days ago, since shipping takes around 7-10 days and I asked for them to be IN MY HANDS by 1-1-07.
Even if I did jump the gun by posting 5 days earlier, so what? After all, what's 5 days beside the months and months I've been kept waiting?
He claims he was planning to have my housings by then. However, if this were indeed the case, I would have had a tracking number several days ago, since shipping takes around 7-10 days and I asked for them to be IN MY HANDS by 1-1-07.
Even if I did jump the gun by posting 5 days earlier, so what? After all, what's 5 days beside the months and months I've been kept waiting?
12-27-06, 06:06 PM
#14
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I'm out $1950....with no reimbursement or housings in site....and this is from LAST FRBUARY/MARCH.
nevermind the fact that my car is on the permanently disabled list since its been a bitch to recover from losing 1/1 a motor that i had put all my money and time into.
guess ill have to give them another call and be fed some more bullshit. Or maybe i will simply go ahead with my lawsuit as planned.
BTW Kevin about 4-5 people that i know of currently have lost decent sized shipments of housings. They're uninsured and poorly packaged, if you want full shipping details let me know I can give you a lengthy explanation as to why they get lost and no one gets reimbursed.
kevin.
nevermind the fact that my car is on the permanently disabled list since its been a bitch to recover from losing 1/1 a motor that i had put all my money and time into.
guess ill have to give them another call and be fed some more bullshit. Or maybe i will simply go ahead with my lawsuit as planned.
BTW Kevin about 4-5 people that i know of currently have lost decent sized shipments of housings. They're uninsured and poorly packaged, if you want full shipping details let me know I can give you a lengthy explanation as to why they get lost and no one gets reimbursed.
kevin.
12-27-06, 09:44 PM
#15
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I wonder if the reason why large shipment of housings consistantly get "lost" or take months on end to recieve is because the housings are "diverted" to another shop to build their motors ?
just a theory..
just a theory..
12-28-06, 03:23 AM
#16
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I know that the last housing I received from my last "batch" in May of 06 came from a drop shipper in California. On the rotorhousing was written "Rob @ Pineapple".
It was one of the bad housings as well.
I don't know what the big time shops are doing, but in my mind, ordering 6-10 rotorhousings at a time is not exactly chump change, so if I am having these problems, I imagine everyone else probably is also including the big guys. IF anyone has an inside edge it'd probably be Rx7 specialities, who is apparently nearby and works closely with JHB from what I am told.
EDIT: This is rotaryresurrection
It was one of the bad housings as well.
I don't know what the big time shops are doing, but in my mind, ordering 6-10 rotorhousings at a time is not exactly chump change, so if I am having these problems, I imagine everyone else probably is also including the big guys. IF anyone has an inside edge it'd probably be Rx7 specialities, who is apparently nearby and works closely with JHB from what I am told.
EDIT: This is rotaryresurrection
12-28-06, 05:54 PM
#17
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Just received word today that ill be receiving replacement parts rather then money.
lets hope they actually make it to my house this time.
once i get them ill fill you in on the whole shipping situation, it's like a "smack your forehead that was a dumb move" kind of thing.
kevin.
lets hope they actually make it to my house this time.
once i get them ill fill you in on the whole shipping situation, it's like a "smack your forehead that was a dumb move" kind of thing.
kevin.
12-28-06, 06:12 PM
#18
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Now that Marc is pissed that I posted this, you are probably getting some of the housings he was repairing for me to try and meet my 'deadline".
Or, maybe you are getting the "3 or 4" of mine that he's had done for several months now while 'waiting for the equipment to be repaired before proceeding with the rest".
Or, maybe you are getting the "3 or 4" of mine that he's had done for several months now while 'waiting for the equipment to be repaired before proceeding with the rest".
12-28-06, 08:50 PM
#19
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I have 10 housings sitting that I want to use in rebuilds..was considering sending them to these guys. After reading this, i doubt I will do any business with them. It will brand new housings from Mazda for my customers...
12-29-06, 04:51 PM
#20
UPDATE:
I spoke with Marc at JHB today. He tells me that my 9 warranty housings are complete and ready to ship. He also graciously offered to help cover some of the expense related to the 20b re-rebuild that I had to perform earlier this year due to the bad housings. We reached an agreement for him to give me another housing at a later date (so I will now have a total of 10) in leiu of any labor reimbursement for the 20B re-rebuild. This is honestly more than I would have expected or could have hoped for.
I will be waiting to receive my 10 housings and then I will consider the matter satisfied.
I spoke with Marc at JHB today. He tells me that my 9 warranty housings are complete and ready to ship. He also graciously offered to help cover some of the expense related to the 20b re-rebuild that I had to perform earlier this year due to the bad housings. We reached an agreement for him to give me another housing at a later date (so I will now have a total of 10) in leiu of any labor reimbursement for the 20B re-rebuild. This is honestly more than I would have expected or could have hoped for.
I will be waiting to receive my 10 housings and then I will consider the matter satisfied.
12-29-06, 04:57 PM
#21
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... although it's a unfortunate that people are getting ripped off and frankly I'm ashamed these people are Canadian..
BUT.. 'I told you so' .. in a few large threads regarding this company, that they (JHB) were NOT professional and claimed unsubstantiated facts to outright lies on their website, emials and on here.
Personally I walked away from them as a viable source of product almost right away.
BUT.. 'I told you so' .. in a few large threads regarding this company, that they (JHB) were NOT professional and claimed unsubstantiated facts to outright lies on their website, emials and on here.
Personally I walked away from them as a viable source of product almost right away.
01-03-07, 05:54 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
UPDATE:
I spoke with Marc at JHB today. He tells me that my 9 warranty housings are complete and ready to ship. He also graciously offered to help cover some of the expense related to the 20b re-rebuild that I had to perform earlier this year due to the bad housings. We reached an agreement for him to give me another housing at a later date (so I will now have a total of 10) in leiu of any labor reimbursement for the 20B re-rebuild. This is honestly more than I would have expected or could have hoped for.
I will be waiting to receive my 10 housings and then I will consider the matter satisfied.
I spoke with Marc at JHB today. He tells me that my 9 warranty housings are complete and ready to ship. He also graciously offered to help cover some of the expense related to the 20b re-rebuild that I had to perform earlier this year due to the bad housings. We reached an agreement for him to give me another housing at a later date (so I will now have a total of 10) in leiu of any labor reimbursement for the 20B re-rebuild. This is honestly more than I would have expected or could have hoped for.
I will be waiting to receive my 10 housings and then I will consider the matter satisfied.
kevin.
01-04-07, 08:44 PM
#24
As an update, JHB has shipped out my replacement housings (except the 10th free replacement which was not a warranty/priority) and they are currently en route. And UPS has apparently managed to screw that up for a short period of time, they sat at the border for 4 days for no apparent reason. I will update the thread when they are received and checked, though they may not be used for quite some time.
01-05-07, 05:48 PM
#25
well hopefully they get their **** together, i had considered getting some housings coated to see if they do actually work but after seeing this and all the headaches i am skeptical to ever bother.
if they fix everyone up that they have screwed over then i MIGHT consider dealing with them in the future but only after they have proven a track record.
if they fix everyone up that they have screwed over then i MIGHT consider dealing with them in the future but only after they have proven a track record.