Issue with seller MannyKiller
08-05-10, 02:29 AM
#26
Nearing Completion...
iTrader: (473)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, this is kinda interesting so I'll add my input as well. I ship quite a bit of parts myself and I don't ask for people to cover the insurance costs. It's something I do to cover myself as much as possible from any issues that may arise from incompetent shippers. I go above and beyond that to package IMO extremelly well to ensure that nothing gets damaged. Hell, I even throw my own packages prior to shipping to make sure nothing is moving around so that I can minimize any chance of anything breaking.
$12 seems like a lot to ask for insurance. I just shipped out a part that I placed $500 of insurance on and it was at most $3 or so. It's possible we use different shippers so I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it seems like a higher number than I'm used to seeing.
At the end of the day, especially if you're using Ebay, the seller chooses how much he wants to charge for shipping. I dislike Ebay because I see lots of sellers listing pretty ridiculous prices for shipping and lowering their own part prices to make it seem like the deal is more enticing. Since you're able to list whatever price you choose for shipping costs, it should be the seller's responsibility to factor all charges in prior to listing an ad.
IMO the worst part about this transaction is that the seller "seems" completely dishonest about the fact that he "sold" these to his friend.
I'm coming to all my conclusions based simply off what I've read here and I have no vested interest in either party sooo good luck reaching a resolution. Sucks that it came down to this.
$12 seems like a lot to ask for insurance. I just shipped out a part that I placed $500 of insurance on and it was at most $3 or so. It's possible we use different shippers so I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it seems like a higher number than I'm used to seeing.
At the end of the day, especially if you're using Ebay, the seller chooses how much he wants to charge for shipping. I dislike Ebay because I see lots of sellers listing pretty ridiculous prices for shipping and lowering their own part prices to make it seem like the deal is more enticing. Since you're able to list whatever price you choose for shipping costs, it should be the seller's responsibility to factor all charges in prior to listing an ad.
IMO the worst part about this transaction is that the seller "seems" completely dishonest about the fact that he "sold" these to his friend.
I'm coming to all my conclusions based simply off what I've read here and I have no vested interest in either party sooo good luck reaching a resolution. Sucks that it came down to this.
08-05-10, 05:57 AM
#27
TANKER
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wherever the Army Sends Me
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Mark
08-05-10, 12:37 PM
#28
I hear that Riz! Thanks for shipping my stuff quickly btw!
You are totally right, the seller messed up. I would be just as angry. Ebay is terrible but at the same time you can't go around assuming everyone is bad on there if you are going to keep doing transactions through them. If you had such bad experiences with ebay, why did you go back? You should avoid it like most of us on the forum do. I only buy from company store fronts on ebay and even that is rare. It seems like people only post on ebay to make a quick buck off someone.
Good man Mark!!!
I certainly won't be buying from Manny until this is resolved. GL to both parties.
I certainly won't be buying from Manny until this is resolved. GL to both parties.
08-05-10, 12:53 PM
#29
Apology accepted, and I apologize for the mis communication that took place.
And i'm really sorry but you guys are not seeing the point. That this guy has physically altered messages, leaving things that would completely justify what I did out of what he has posted on here. like the fact that I sent him TWO SEPERATE MESSAGES TELLING HIM ABOUT THE ADDED PRICE FOR INSURANCE BEFORE THE AUCTION ENDED. THAT HE CHOSE TO IGNORE" And Also, changed messages to act in his favor. It takes a certain type of person to do that, therefore I do accept his apology, but I won't be selling him the coolers. That would be like warranting that behavior. In this case it would be like giving a child a piece of candy to shut him up instead of disciplining him.
- ap
And i'm really sorry but you guys are not seeing the point. That this guy has physically altered messages, leaving things that would completely justify what I did out of what he has posted on here. like the fact that I sent him TWO SEPERATE MESSAGES TELLING HIM ABOUT THE ADDED PRICE FOR INSURANCE BEFORE THE AUCTION ENDED. THAT HE CHOSE TO IGNORE" And Also, changed messages to act in his favor. It takes a certain type of person to do that, therefore I do accept his apology, but I won't be selling him the coolers. That would be like warranting that behavior. In this case it would be like giving a child a piece of candy to shut him up instead of disciplining him.
- ap
08-05-10, 01:43 PM
#30
All out Freak!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in a little box on a stick
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
9 Posts
wow...so many issues....
First thing's first--this section is typically to discuss transactions that took place on this forum. I am not going to delete the thread or anything, but we have no control over any aspect of what takes place on ebay or elsewhere outside our forum.
Second, to manny, I noticed that you made mention of refunding all of his money, including the paypal fee. I need to inform you that it is against the rules of both paypal and this forum to charge your customer that 3% fee. that is a fee that you as a seller are responsible for. Please consider this for your future activities.
Third, I would like to see the auction itself. I would also like to see the emails that changed hands before payment was sent. Here's the bottom line--if there was a problem with what manny did, and that problem was communicated before the buyer sent payment, why did he send the payment? If he was told "hey, insurance is extra" and he chose not to pay the insurance, then what should have happened was that manny should have simply shipped them out without insurance. Manny, you would have been covered by the fact that you sent that email before the auction closed, so if anything had happened to the parts, you would have been off the hook.
A lot of ebay auctions do not show the shipping cost with insurance. Whose fault that is, well, thats up for debate. But I do know this--I have bought things many times off of ebay where the seller sent me an exact quote for shipping with insurance....and it was never a problem. To the buyer, if you want to claim that you stand on principle, then why didnt you just say "hey, thanks for letting me know, I dont care about the insurance, please ship them without it"....? You said yourself that you have seen these shipped before with no problems...right?
My point is this--regardless of what you think of Manny's action, you had an obligation to show some integrity yourself. You chose not to. Thats on you. This sale could have ended peacefully and with no issues, all you had to do was talk to manny like a man of respect. Even if you couldnt agree on the $12, I am sure that SOMETHING could have been worked out!
Dude, you talked to this seller like crap. you talked down to him, insulted him, and even threatened him.....over TWELVE BUCKS. And then you speak of integrity? Dont even think about preaching "principle" to me--it takes principle to talk to someone respectfully when you dont agree with them.
Another thing--you have some nerve trying to bring in your military service on this one. What did you think that entitled you to? I served this country too. I spent five years getting sent all over the world conducting spec ops work. I was wounded in combat. And honestly, it irritates me to no end that you felt the need to preach to this guy about how youre in Iraq so he can live his life. You pulled the servicemember/veteran card, preached about integrity, and claimed to be a man who stands on principle.....all at the same time that you were insulting him, threatening him, demonstrated a complete lack of integrity yourself, and being generally quite rude over something so small and minute that you two should have been able to work it out without problem. When you discover the massive contradictions that reside in that reality, maybe you will learn something.
Mark--not trying to sound rude, but how someone else treated you on ebay should have no bearing whatsoever on how you handled yourself this time around. Thats also part of integrity.
I dont feel that it was right to claim that the parts were sold to a friend. I can understand that you felt the need to not continue the deal with Mark, but why lie? Why not just say that you refunded his money because his conduct made it difficult to continue with the deal?
One final word for now....its really something when someone talks about "principle" for $12, but at the same time has no problem paying a seller a couple hundred bucks LESS than what you know those parts are really worth. A man of principle would want the seller to get a fair price. I mean, come on--do you REALLY think that manny's plan is to get rich off of people by requesting an additional TWELVE BUCKS when he could have sold those parts for TWO HUNDRED MORE?
First thing's first--this section is typically to discuss transactions that took place on this forum. I am not going to delete the thread or anything, but we have no control over any aspect of what takes place on ebay or elsewhere outside our forum.
Second, to manny, I noticed that you made mention of refunding all of his money, including the paypal fee. I need to inform you that it is against the rules of both paypal and this forum to charge your customer that 3% fee. that is a fee that you as a seller are responsible for. Please consider this for your future activities.
Third, I would like to see the auction itself. I would also like to see the emails that changed hands before payment was sent. Here's the bottom line--if there was a problem with what manny did, and that problem was communicated before the buyer sent payment, why did he send the payment? If he was told "hey, insurance is extra" and he chose not to pay the insurance, then what should have happened was that manny should have simply shipped them out without insurance. Manny, you would have been covered by the fact that you sent that email before the auction closed, so if anything had happened to the parts, you would have been off the hook.
A lot of ebay auctions do not show the shipping cost with insurance. Whose fault that is, well, thats up for debate. But I do know this--I have bought things many times off of ebay where the seller sent me an exact quote for shipping with insurance....and it was never a problem. To the buyer, if you want to claim that you stand on principle, then why didnt you just say "hey, thanks for letting me know, I dont care about the insurance, please ship them without it"....? You said yourself that you have seen these shipped before with no problems...right?
My point is this--regardless of what you think of Manny's action, you had an obligation to show some integrity yourself. You chose not to. Thats on you. This sale could have ended peacefully and with no issues, all you had to do was talk to manny like a man of respect. Even if you couldnt agree on the $12, I am sure that SOMETHING could have been worked out!
Dude, you talked to this seller like crap. you talked down to him, insulted him, and even threatened him.....over TWELVE BUCKS. And then you speak of integrity? Dont even think about preaching "principle" to me--it takes principle to talk to someone respectfully when you dont agree with them.
Another thing--you have some nerve trying to bring in your military service on this one. What did you think that entitled you to? I served this country too. I spent five years getting sent all over the world conducting spec ops work. I was wounded in combat. And honestly, it irritates me to no end that you felt the need to preach to this guy about how youre in Iraq so he can live his life. You pulled the servicemember/veteran card, preached about integrity, and claimed to be a man who stands on principle.....all at the same time that you were insulting him, threatening him, demonstrated a complete lack of integrity yourself, and being generally quite rude over something so small and minute that you two should have been able to work it out without problem. When you discover the massive contradictions that reside in that reality, maybe you will learn something.
Mark--not trying to sound rude, but how someone else treated you on ebay should have no bearing whatsoever on how you handled yourself this time around. Thats also part of integrity.
I dont feel that it was right to claim that the parts were sold to a friend. I can understand that you felt the need to not continue the deal with Mark, but why lie? Why not just say that you refunded his money because his conduct made it difficult to continue with the deal?
One final word for now....its really something when someone talks about "principle" for $12, but at the same time has no problem paying a seller a couple hundred bucks LESS than what you know those parts are really worth. A man of principle would want the seller to get a fair price. I mean, come on--do you REALLY think that manny's plan is to get rich off of people by requesting an additional TWELVE BUCKS when he could have sold those parts for TWO HUNDRED MORE?
08-05-10, 02:14 PM
#31
TANKER
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wherever the Army Sends Me
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Apology accepted, and I apologize for the mis communication that took place.
And i'm really sorry but you guys are not seeing the point. That this guy has physically altered messages, leaving things that would completely justify what I did out of what he has posted on here. like the fact that I sent him TWO SEPERATE MESSAGES TELLING HIM ABOUT THE ADDED PRICE FOR INSURANCE BEFORE THE AUCTION ENDED. THAT HE CHOSE TO IGNORE" And Also, changed messages to act in his favor. It takes a certain type of person to do that, therefore I do accept his apology, but I won't be selling him the coolers. That would be like warranting that behavior. In this case it would be like giving a child a piece of candy to shut him up instead of disciplining him.
- ap
And i'm really sorry but you guys are not seeing the point. That this guy has physically altered messages, leaving things that would completely justify what I did out of what he has posted on here. like the fact that I sent him TWO SEPERATE MESSAGES TELLING HIM ABOUT THE ADDED PRICE FOR INSURANCE BEFORE THE AUCTION ENDED. THAT HE CHOSE TO IGNORE" And Also, changed messages to act in his favor. It takes a certain type of person to do that, therefore I do accept his apology, but I won't be selling him the coolers. That would be like warranting that behavior. In this case it would be like giving a child a piece of candy to shut him up instead of disciplining him.
- ap
I did not alter any messages. I did reorganize them so you don't read bottom to top. I have all of them saved. YOu did send a message (Monday 2 Aug @ 11:58am), but I didn't see your message until after payment was sent (auction ended Monday 2 Aug @ 11:54am, and paypal was immediately sent). I was following the auction, and I was not going to make another payment for $12.
08-05-10, 02:14 PM
#32
^ This was the e-mail where I stated I would send the items without insurance... and since it seemed Like such a huge hassle with the guy.. and he rudely responded I decided not to do business with him. Also, UPS rate is 2 dollars for insurance over 100 dollars.. the 12 dollars was quoted given the value of the coolers..that being over 1000 dollars.
- ap
P.S I'm just sick of this whole ordeal and the fact that my reputation on this forum is being challenged when clearly this guy is the problem and not me. It seems like he's aching for the confrontation and actually enjoys it. Thats not why i'm on this forum. This forum is like my happy place, I dont want it to be anything other than that.
My reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "mark shoaf" <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:59 PM
Well obviously you don't ship valuable components that are prone to being damaged. If thats the case then I'll ship it without the protection, and without the insurance. And since you just happen to be a rude person I have absolutely no problem doing it. I sell parts like this as a part of my normal income. Don't send the extra 12 bucks, but know that the parts will be packaged accordingly. I won't damage them in any way, but if they get damaged because of someones ignorance or un-professionality.... thats all on you. I'll ship it out tomorrow morning. And no it hasn't been a pleasure doing business with you. As a matter of fact, it's people like you who have made me sell less on E-bay. My 100% seller feedback is a product of my professionality.
As a matter of fact, I have absolutely no problem in refunding the money. I figured i'd help someone out by selling an aftermarket oil cooler kit to someone at a hell of a steal price. With that said if i take it and it ends up costing more than what you so professionally think is the right price.. I'll simply refund the money and I'll sell them on my car forum and make 2-300 more. With that said, have a good one.
- Ap
AND His reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "Reighn Lott" <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:49 PM
I have shipped and been shipped many car parts including intercoolers and oil coolers. They have never been damaged in shipping and were always packed properly. Don't lecture me on professionalism, my job is to protect for this Country. While you sit at home and enjoy the life you live while I am over here in Iraq. It is the ungrateful people like you that **** us Soldiers off. It is not my mistake that you incorrectly composed a legal contract over ebay, and that you were not competent enough to calculate for shipping. Not my fault. To me it seems like you are just trying to get some extra cash. I guess the customer is NOT always right in your book. I have a 100% feedback on ebay too, because I am honest. If I make a miscalculation, I don't tell people they owe me more money. I suck it up and take care of it because it is the right thing to do. It shows your level of integrity.
I do not want a refund. I expect this item to be shipped and delivered in a timely manner with proper packing. Item will be inspected with the delivery person upon arrival, and any claims or refusal will be made at that time.
Mark
- ap
P.S I'm just sick of this whole ordeal and the fact that my reputation on this forum is being challenged when clearly this guy is the problem and not me. It seems like he's aching for the confrontation and actually enjoys it. Thats not why i'm on this forum. This forum is like my happy place, I dont want it to be anything other than that.
My reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "mark shoaf" <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:59 PM
Well obviously you don't ship valuable components that are prone to being damaged. If thats the case then I'll ship it without the protection, and without the insurance. And since you just happen to be a rude person I have absolutely no problem doing it. I sell parts like this as a part of my normal income. Don't send the extra 12 bucks, but know that the parts will be packaged accordingly. I won't damage them in any way, but if they get damaged because of someones ignorance or un-professionality.... thats all on you. I'll ship it out tomorrow morning. And no it hasn't been a pleasure doing business with you. As a matter of fact, it's people like you who have made me sell less on E-bay. My 100% seller feedback is a product of my professionality.
As a matter of fact, I have absolutely no problem in refunding the money. I figured i'd help someone out by selling an aftermarket oil cooler kit to someone at a hell of a steal price. With that said if i take it and it ends up costing more than what you so professionally think is the right price.. I'll simply refund the money and I'll sell them on my car forum and make 2-300 more. With that said, have a good one.
- Ap
AND His reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "Reighn Lott" <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:49 PM
I have shipped and been shipped many car parts including intercoolers and oil coolers. They have never been damaged in shipping and were always packed properly. Don't lecture me on professionalism, my job is to protect for this Country. While you sit at home and enjoy the life you live while I am over here in Iraq. It is the ungrateful people like you that **** us Soldiers off. It is not my mistake that you incorrectly composed a legal contract over ebay, and that you were not competent enough to calculate for shipping. Not my fault. To me it seems like you are just trying to get some extra cash. I guess the customer is NOT always right in your book. I have a 100% feedback on ebay too, because I am honest. If I make a miscalculation, I don't tell people they owe me more money. I suck it up and take care of it because it is the right thing to do. It shows your level of integrity.
I do not want a refund. I expect this item to be shipped and delivered in a timely manner with proper packing. Item will be inspected with the delivery person upon arrival, and any claims or refusal will be made at that time.
Mark
08-05-10, 02:37 PM
#33
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
I went in and edited the original post to remove the silly threats and and also manny's phone number.
I'm not even going to touch the 'im in Iraq garbage' except to say that I also served as an O-3 and it makes me shake my head to see people try and leverage that as if anybody owes you anything.
I'm not even going to touch the 'im in Iraq garbage' except to say that I also served as an O-3 and it makes me shake my head to see people try and leverage that as if anybody owes you anything.
08-05-10, 02:37 PM
#34
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
I went in and edited the original post to remove the silly threats and and also manny's phone number.
I'm not even going to touch the 'im in Iraq' garbage except to say that I also served over there as an O-3 and it makes me shake my head to see people try and leverage that as if anybody owes you anything.
I'm also going to amend the thread title to something a little more accurate.
I'm not even going to touch the 'im in Iraq' garbage except to say that I also served over there as an O-3 and it makes me shake my head to see people try and leverage that as if anybody owes you anything.
I'm also going to amend the thread title to something a little more accurate.
08-05-10, 03:09 PM
#36
TANKER
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wherever the Army Sends Me
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
If you feel this doesn't warrant being on this forum, I have no issue with you deleting it.
Third, I would like to see the auction itself. I would also like to see the emails that changed hands before payment was sent. Here's the bottom line--if there was a problem with what manny did, and that problem was communicated before the buyer sent payment, why did he send the payment? If he was told "hey, insurance is extra" and he chose not to pay the insurance, then what should have happened was that manny should have simply shipped them out without insurance. Manny, you would have been covered by the fact that you sent that email before the auction closed, so if anything had happened to the parts, you would have been off the hook.
A lot of ebay auctions do not show the shipping cost with insurance. Whose fault that is, well, thats up for debate. But I do know this--I have bought things many times off of ebay where the seller sent me an exact quote for shipping with insurance....and it was never a problem. To the buyer, if you want to claim that you stand on principle, then why didnt you just say "hey, thanks for letting me know, I dont care about the insurance, please ship them without it"....? You said yourself that you have seen these shipped before with no problems...right?
A lot of ebay auctions do not show the shipping cost with insurance. Whose fault that is, well, thats up for debate. But I do know this--I have bought things many times off of ebay where the seller sent me an exact quote for shipping with insurance....and it was never a problem. To the buyer, if you want to claim that you stand on principle, then why didnt you just say "hey, thanks for letting me know, I dont care about the insurance, please ship them without it"....? You said yourself that you have seen these shipped before with no problems...right?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TORS:1123#shId
Yeah, I have shipped things before and insurance would have been a few dollars.
As soon as the auction ended at 11:54am, I started the paypal process. The internet in Iraq is slow and crappy (128K), and it was finalized at 12:04. After the payment was sent, I checked my e-mail to find this message sent during the paypal transaction. As you can see, it takes forever to complete a simple task here in theater, and it wasn't worth while to send this guy another $12 for insurance.
Originally Posted by e-mail
Flag this message
advspercussionist has sent a question about item #290457098452, that ended on Aug-02-10 10:54:34 PDT - Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Monday, August 2, 2010 11:58 AM
From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified
"eBay Member: advspercussionist" <advspe_hsn3149uj@members.ebay.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
mshoaf@yahoo.com
eBay eBay sent this message to Mark Shoaf (mcshoaf).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
This member has a question for you.
Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.
Dear mcshoaf,
Congratulations on your win.... I can honestly say that you have just Scored a major major deal on these coolers.....And I cannot believe they didnt sell in upwards of 800. So again Congratulations!! As long as your shipping address or wherever you want the coolers to be shipped is on your paypal payment info There shouldn't be any prob, but I remember you saying you were overseas currently. So just let me know where you want them shipped. Also.. The Shipping cost is 43.00 even. I have no idea why it says 22.00 But I'll give you the tracking number when I recieve the payment. So the final total will be 643.00. Thanks much! talk to you soon!
- Ap
- advspercussionist
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond
Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Item Id: 290457098452
End time: Aug-02-10 10:54:34 PDT
Seller:
advspercussionist (24)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since May-22-04 in United States
Location: CA, United States
Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was closed.
advspercussionist has sent a question about item #290457098452, that ended on Aug-02-10 10:54:34 PDT - Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Monday, August 2, 2010 11:58 AM
From:
This sender is DomainKeys verified
"eBay Member: advspercussionist" <advspe_hsn3149uj@members.ebay.com>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
mshoaf@yahoo.com
eBay eBay sent this message to Mark Shoaf (mcshoaf).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
This member has a question for you.
Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. Learn More.
Dear mcshoaf,
Congratulations on your win.... I can honestly say that you have just Scored a major major deal on these coolers.....And I cannot believe they didnt sell in upwards of 800. So again Congratulations!! As long as your shipping address or wherever you want the coolers to be shipped is on your paypal payment info There shouldn't be any prob, but I remember you saying you were overseas currently. So just let me know where you want them shipped. Also.. The Shipping cost is 43.00 even. I have no idea why it says 22.00 But I'll give you the tracking number when I recieve the payment. So the final total will be 643.00. Thanks much! talk to you soon!
- Ap
- advspercussionist
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond
Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Rx7 Dual Oil Cooler Kit W/Mocal 25 row/earls fittings
Item Id: 290457098452
End time: Aug-02-10 10:54:34 PDT
Seller:
advspercussionist (24)
100.0% Positive Feedback
Member since May-22-04 in United States
Location: CA, United States
Listing Status: This message was sent while the listing was closed.
My point is this--regardless of what you think of Manny's action, you had an obligation to show some integrity yourself. You chose not to. Thats on you. This sale could have ended peacefully and with no issues, all you had to do was talk to manny like a man of respect. Even if you couldnt agree on the $12, I am sure that SOMETHING could have been worked out!
Dude, you talked to this seller like crap. you talked down to him, insulted him, and even threatened him.....over TWELVE BUCKS. And then you speak of integrity? Dont even think about preaching "principle" to me--it takes principle to talk to someone respectfully when you dont agree with them.
Another thing--you have some nerve trying to bring in your military service on this one. What did you think that entitled you to? I served this country too. I spent five years getting sent all over the world conducting spec ops work. I was wounded in combat. And honestly, it irritates me to no end that you felt the need to preach to this guy about how youre in Iraq so he can live his life. You pulled the servicemember/veteran card, preached about integrity, and claimed to be a man who stands on principle.....all at the same time that you were insulting him, threatening him, demonstrated a complete lack of integrity yourself, and being generally quite rude over something so small and minute that you two should have been able to work it out without problem. When you discover the massive contradictions that reside in that reality, maybe you will learn something.
"Integrity comes from the Greek words 'integritas' and 'integra' meaning whole. It enters into any aspect of one's life. It's belief system without faltering no matter how dangerous, how unpopular the person makes themselves to others. It includes: sincerity, keeping one's word and agreements, honesty, truthfulness, ethics, fairness and justice, punctuality and never faltering for what one believes in."
Just to be clear what integrity means. I think I showed a lot of integrity.
I dont feel that it was right to claim that the parts were sold to a friend. I can understand that you felt the need to not continue the deal with Mark, but why lie? Why not just say that you refunded his money because his conduct made it difficult to continue with the deal?
One final word for now....its really something when someone talks about "principle" for $12, but at the same time has no problem paying a seller a couple hundred bucks LESS than what you know those parts are really worth. A man of principle would want the seller to get a fair price. I mean, come on--do you REALLY think that manny's plan is to get rich off of people by requesting an additional TWELVE BUCKS when he could have sold those parts for TWO HUNDRED MORE?
The principle is that it was auctioned at a price that he established as fair. $600 was his reserve. I completed the transaction as per the auction. He stiffed me. Point Blank.
If you feel this thread doesn't merit space here, delete it. I will respect your decision as a moderator.
Mark
08-05-10, 03:20 PM
#37
TANKER
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wherever the Army Sends Me
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
^ This was the e-mail where I stated I would send the items without insurance... and since it seemed Like such a huge hassle with the guy.. and he rudely responded I decided not to do business with him. Also, UPS rate is 2 dollars for insurance over 100 dollars.. the 12 dollars was quoted given the value of the coolers..that being over 1000 dollars.
- ap
P.S I'm just sick of this whole ordeal and the fact that my reputation on this forum is being challenged when clearly this guy is the problem and not me. It seems like he's aching for the confrontation and actually enjoys it. Thats not why i'm on this forum. This forum is like my happy place, I dont want it to be anything other than that.
My reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "mark shoaf" <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:59 PM
Well obviously you don't ship valuable components that are prone to being damaged. If thats the case then I'll ship it without the protection, and without the insurance. And since you just happen to be a rude person I have absolutely no problem doing it. I sell parts like this as a part of my normal income. Don't send the extra 12 bucks, but know that the parts will be packaged accordingly. I won't damage them in any way, but if they get damaged because of someones ignorance or un-professionality.... thats all on you. I'll ship it out tomorrow morning. And no it hasn't been a pleasure doing business with you. As a matter of fact, it's people like you who have made me sell less on E-bay. My 100% seller feedback is a product of my professionality.
As a matter of fact, I have absolutely no problem in refunding the money. I figured i'd help someone out by selling an aftermarket oil cooler kit to someone at a hell of a steal price. With that said if i take it and it ends up costing more than what you so professionally think is the right price.. I'll simply refund the money and I'll sell them on my car forum and make 2-300 more. With that said, have a good one.
- Ap
AND His reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "Reighn Lott" <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:49 PM
I have shipped and been shipped many car parts including intercoolers and oil coolers. They have never been damaged in shipping and were always packed properly. Don't lecture me on professionalism, my job is to protect for this Country. While you sit at home and enjoy the life you live while I am over here in Iraq. It is the ungrateful people like you that **** us Soldiers off. It is not my mistake that you incorrectly composed a legal contract over ebay, and that you were not competent enough to calculate for shipping. Not my fault. To me it seems like you are just trying to get some extra cash. I guess the customer is NOT always right in your book. I have a 100% feedback on ebay too, because I am honest. If I make a miscalculation, I don't tell people they owe me more money. I suck it up and take care of it because it is the right thing to do. It shows your level of integrity.
I do not want a refund. I expect this item to be shipped and delivered in a timely manner with proper packing. Item will be inspected with the delivery person upon arrival, and any claims or refusal will be made at that time.
Mark
- ap
P.S I'm just sick of this whole ordeal and the fact that my reputation on this forum is being challenged when clearly this guy is the problem and not me. It seems like he's aching for the confrontation and actually enjoys it. Thats not why i'm on this forum. This forum is like my happy place, I dont want it to be anything other than that.
My reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Reighn Lott <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "mark shoaf" <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:59 PM
Well obviously you don't ship valuable components that are prone to being damaged. If thats the case then I'll ship it without the protection, and without the insurance. And since you just happen to be a rude person I have absolutely no problem doing it. I sell parts like this as a part of my normal income. Don't send the extra 12 bucks, but know that the parts will be packaged accordingly. I won't damage them in any way, but if they get damaged because of someones ignorance or un-professionality.... thats all on you. I'll ship it out tomorrow morning. And no it hasn't been a pleasure doing business with you. As a matter of fact, it's people like you who have made me sell less on E-bay. My 100% seller feedback is a product of my professionality.
As a matter of fact, I have absolutely no problem in refunding the money. I figured i'd help someone out by selling an aftermarket oil cooler kit to someone at a hell of a steal price. With that said if i take it and it ends up costing more than what you so professionally think is the right price.. I'll simply refund the money and I'll sell them on my car forum and make 2-300 more. With that said, have a good one.
- Ap
AND His reply:
--- On Mon, 8/2/10, mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mark shoaf <mshoaf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Mocal 25 Row Oil Coolers...
To: "Reighn Lott" <cky2a061616solid@yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 9:49 PM
I have shipped and been shipped many car parts including intercoolers and oil coolers. They have never been damaged in shipping and were always packed properly. Don't lecture me on professionalism, my job is to protect for this Country. While you sit at home and enjoy the life you live while I am over here in Iraq. It is the ungrateful people like you that **** us Soldiers off. It is not my mistake that you incorrectly composed a legal contract over ebay, and that you were not competent enough to calculate for shipping. Not my fault. To me it seems like you are just trying to get some extra cash. I guess the customer is NOT always right in your book. I have a 100% feedback on ebay too, because I am honest. If I make a miscalculation, I don't tell people they owe me more money. I suck it up and take care of it because it is the right thing to do. It shows your level of integrity.
I do not want a refund. I expect this item to be shipped and delivered in a timely manner with proper packing. Item will be inspected with the delivery person upon arrival, and any claims or refusal will be made at that time.
Mark
I believe Manny & I are both over it. Could a moderator just delete this thread?
08-05-10, 04:38 PM
#38
All out Freak!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in a little box on a stick
Posts: 2,300
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes
on
9 Posts
[QUOTE=Show_off;10149327]
A few dollars? Look, I seriously have a hard time with this ridiculous bickering. You say a few bucks, he says 12 bucks. Sounds to me like youre being awful petty in this entire point of the whole issue. But I digress.....what is your zip code? I checked myself, for the UPS ground shipping. He lives in Palmdale, CA, and without knowing where you live in TX, I used zio code 78203, which is in San Antonio...UPS Ground for this shipment according to UPS themselves will cost $43.21. Try it yourself--go on the ebay link and enter in different zip codes for the shipping. It wasnt manny's fault at all--I entered in 85201, which is Mesa, Arizona, and UPS says that ground shipping will cost 28.91 for this exact package to get there. It wasnt Manny's fault that the ebay site had a glitch. In order to get the $22 shipping cost that you paid, the destination would have to have been within California. I just tried San Francisco, which is 94101, and UPS now says $25.73....It seems to me that your expert computations about what shipping should have cost were just a wee bit off.....at the end of the day, manny was selling you something for HUNDREDS of dollars less than legitimate value, and you treated him like crap over 12 measly bucks, blamed him for trying to bait-and-switch when he didnt even do that, and then threw your military weight around like he owed you a break or something.
Please, stop me when I get to the part where you displayed such integrity....I can hardly wait....
You just bought these parts in what appears to be excellent condition. It's a find that is pretty rare....and if you had to buy it new, it would most likely run you more than a grand. And it wasnt worth ten minutes and twelve dollars to get it at this price? man....I dont know what to say about that attitude.
Your integrity is most definitely in question, from the behavior I have seen thus far.
Your own definition of integrity is whole. It means that sending a payment isnt all. It means that in every aspect of the deal, you conduct yourself accordingly.....and you didnt. Why sit there telling me some greek lecture about integrity when your own actions do not live up to that concept?
see above.
Sorry, I am not going to buy that. I saw your comment about how youre over in Iraq so that he can live his life here. You were flaunting your military service like you expected it to carry some kind of weight or privledge. They dont call it SERVICE for nothing....
Additionally, while I can understand that some things can be difficult, let's get real. You couldnt have had THAT much trouble being online when you just happened to be able to get online right as the auction ended. I find it particularly funny that you have complained so much about the internet over there and stuff--when I was sent to Iraq 11 times during my service, I didnt have internet to shop on ebay. The "directness in which we operate" doesnt apply either because you need to learn the concept of treating people differently based on the people youre dealing with. Makes me wonder what kind of stuff they are teaching you over there these days....a one-size-fits-all attitude is a recipe for failure. When I was in the Teams, adaptability and flexibility were key. Now youre dealing with a civilian on ebay and youre actually using the military as an excuse for the impersonal, cold way youve treated him.
see above....
It may have been what started it here, but the real issues started well before that.
Your principle SHOULD have been respect. With just a little courtesy and respect, you would have gotten to the bottom of this one in no time, and your parts would be in your hands right now. But you went in hot-headed, and you lost out on a great deal. And then you tried to trash manny for an error that wasnt even his.
I do still stand by my statement earlier that manny should have handled this differently when it comes to claiming it was sold to someone else. But at the end of the day, if you had just kept your cool, this would have been a done deal and you would have come out so far ahead.
Auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TORS:1123#shId
Yeah, I have shipped things before and insurance would have been a few dollars.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...TORS:1123#shId
Yeah, I have shipped things before and insurance would have been a few dollars.
Please, stop me when I get to the part where you displayed such integrity....I can hardly wait....
As soon as the auction ended at 11:54am, I started the paypal process. The internet in Iraq is slow and crappy (128K), and it was finalized at 12:04. After the payment was sent, I checked my e-mail to find this message sent during the paypal transaction. As you can see, it takes forever to complete a simple task here in theater, and it wasn't worth while to send this guy another $12 for insurance.
My integrity was never in question here.
I won an auction and promptly paid him. I am honest and forth coming in my dealings. My part of the deal was completed very promptly. You were in the military, so you know we are direct (Army & Marines at least)! I told him I know what insurance cost and I wasn't paying him any more money.
I can see your point, but from my perspective he didn't fulfill his obligation, and I did.
Military service was brought into this because it plays a part in the communication. (Difficult to get online (I was at an outpost at the time), stress of being an actual combat soldier (which you should understand), and the directness in which we operate.) This does not give us the right to belittle or threaten people, and I apologized. for that. As you know, our service to our Country sets us apart. It is how we live so comfortably back home, and I am sick of seeing people taking it for granted and screwing over Soldiers! I am sure you can understand that.
Additionally, while I can understand that some things can be difficult, let's get real. You couldnt have had THAT much trouble being online when you just happened to be able to get online right as the auction ended. I find it particularly funny that you have complained so much about the internet over there and stuff--when I was sent to Iraq 11 times during my service, I didnt have internet to shop on ebay. The "directness in which we operate" doesnt apply either because you need to learn the concept of treating people differently based on the people youre dealing with. Makes me wonder what kind of stuff they are teaching you over there these days....a one-size-fits-all attitude is a recipe for failure. When I was in the Teams, adaptability and flexibility were key. Now youre dealing with a civilian on ebay and youre actually using the military as an excuse for the impersonal, cold way youve treated him.
"Integrity comes from the Greek words 'integritas' and 'integra' meaning whole. It enters into any aspect of one's life. It's belief system without faltering no matter how dangerous, how unpopular the person makes themselves to others. It includes: sincerity, keeping one's word and agreements, honesty, truthfulness, ethics, fairness and justice, punctuality and never faltering for what one believes in."
Just to be clear what integrity means. I think I showed a lot of integrity.
Just to be clear what integrity means. I think I showed a lot of integrity.
That is ultimately what started this entire ordeal being posted here. It was done and over with until his PM. He can apologize for this (as I already apologized for my comments), and you can delete this thread.
The principle is that it was auctioned at a price that he established as fair. $600 was his reserve. I completed the transaction as per the auction. He stiffed me. Point Blank.
I do still stand by my statement earlier that manny should have handled this differently when it comes to claiming it was sold to someone else. But at the end of the day, if you had just kept your cool, this would have been a done deal and you would have come out so far ahead.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post