amxone

iTrader: (8)

My priorities are that of a customer trusting that someone I leave my car with will care for it as I do and will fix it, not try to destroy it. No one has done me any favors. I just got my FD back a month ago since I sent it there almost 9 months ago which caused it to require a total rebuild. The FC hasn't been driven and you know this. It ran like crap and cost a fortune in labor. PTR would have done it for 3000 rather than 14k. Most importantly it would have ran properly before they released it. Like I said let it end because this is a deep issue and other shop owners even talk about work at TP and I never mentioned it to them.

Ston3dSnip3r

I had a similar experience with RotorSports Racing in NC.. lost a lot of money to him and he was riding that gravy train bro.. his shop is like 6 hours away from me and it was like every other day he called me and suggested a part be replaced.. half of them were never installed or different brand or condition than he advertised.. but you live and you learn. I take my car to 3 face now for jobs i dont have the tools to tackle.. i must say its a little scary at first but i just started diving in and i have learned a lot about FDs and when i feel or hear certain symptoms i have more of an idea where to look and confidence to tear into it myself. I have learned in this game a majority of the time its better to do things yourself because when other people blow ur sht up who pays for it?

I must say i do find it funny how predictable peoples reactions can be as soon as i read ur post i was like "ok wheres his buddies to bash you for spending all ur $ at his sho.... yup there they are lol" At the end of the day they were payed an amount doubled TWICE and your car still had these issues? 6 months without being touched? No excuse for that i guess that tech didnt really have any other option but to act like a douche. If they were so worried about your plans they could have turned down the project but hey who wants to lose out on that fat stack eh?

Learn to work on the seven yourself and thank me later-

Circuit Theory

iTrader: (52)

if the threads original issue was resolved why is this thread still open?

rx7roller02

we dont lock ever thread, CT....they normally just get left when people stop posting in them. If a thread needs to be locked, we will give it the appropriate attention.

Circuit Theory

iTrader: (52)

Understood.
OP best of luck with your swap! Tripoint nice work following up with this.

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

This thread needs to be closed. This issue was resolved almost 2 years ago.

EB Turbo

Ston3dSnip3r

I guess certain people dont like the idea of an open discussion reflecting negatively on a shop that pulled some shady hat tricks. I think its a good thing to have a few reminders and to have these posts so newbies can come on here and learn from others expensive mistakes.. If it is locked it wont show up in the recent boards list because nobody will be able to reply.. so why do that?

Glad you got things worked out bro even tho they kinda dicked you around on ur FD too :'(

EB Turbo

iTrader: (1)

This thread needs to be closed so people like you and statements like these can stay off the internet. You know nothing about this situation. You need to look at the fact that we have had more people make positive comments on here than negative. If you feel the need to stick you nose in other peoples business you are more than welcome to call the shop to discuss them. If you are not interested in knowing all of the facts please do not comment on these threads.

You also need to look at the fact that shops like us are the reason this market is what it is today. If a shop has one or two bad transactions that means a shop is shady or does bad work? I think not. You should really keep your poor comments to yourself.

EB Turbo

Ston3dSnip3r

I think you should read the first amendment of the bill of rights.. i do know a good bit about what happened hell, i have both sides of the story right here in front of me..

I am not going to argue with you and nobody else needs to because it will get you exactly what you want.. in reality the thread isnt the problem. I hope you have a nice day

jfantis

Wow seems as if everyone has an opinion so I will throw mine in. Some background to support my opinion. I have 15+ years in the auto industry. ASE L1 advanced level master technician A1-A8, C1 professional service manager, P1 parts specialist and over thirty hours per year in advanced training classes. When not turning wrenches I spent two years as a service manager. Also I have installed and tuned, with no base map to even start with, several ECU's with full flying lead harnesses on my Miata turbo and a tracked twin turbo 911. I don't know the shop or the customer.

I think the biggest mistake the shop made was accepting any money to work on this guys car. This car never would have even been put on a lift at my shop. It seems clear the customer had no clue of what his goal was or how he wanted it accomplished. Yes there are bad customers. First off if your car is in a shop you should set a goal or expectation, the shop should reply with a quote and then amend to work within the budget of the customer if possible. As soon as a customer starts amending the parts list or sourcing their own "custom parts" all quotes go out the window. To put it simply if you are going to let a shop do the work on your car then you should trust their opinion on parts and modifications as well. That way when it doesn't meet your expectations, that were agreed upon before the work began, the shop would be to blame. I have read every post in this thread and it is abundantly clear that the customer would not have been happy with much of anything short of a miracle. It seems the shop did a great deal of work to the car charged accordingly and the customer did not want to pay them to finish. At one point the customer said he was happy with the final outcome, and then comes back two years later and begins bashing the shop again.

Others also stated the parts couldn't be at fault. I hate to say it but well engineered parts cost more for a reason. Yes I have used cheap parts before as I didn't mind the immense amount of extra labor they require to work properly. Yes a bar and plate ebay intercooler can work fine. Will it fit out the box, most likely no. Will the piping go on with no problem and not require a ton of fab time, no. Will a chunk of welding slag come off one of the hoses or from the core of the intercooler and grenade the engine, quite possibly. Not to mention overhead in a shop is high, parts are a revenue stream for the shop. Most shops charge extra for customer supplied parts. My shop charged a 50% higher labor rate and no warranty on customer supplied parts simply because of the problems that often arise from questionable parts.

Remember this car was twenty years old and on top of that came to the shop in questionable condition with questionable mods. No one can give an exact estimate with that as a starting point.

I often do not work on my own cars any more. I still do some things that I consider fun, however I run my own tool business now and that consumes most of my time. I just bought my first FD in need of a clutch, cooling system refresh, and some other maintenance. I made a list of my concerns and gave them to the shop. I explained to them what type of engagement and power level I wanted the clutch to handle and let them source the parts they felt would suit my expectations. The parts I did source myself, abs unit and gauge cluster, I brought at the time of the estimate and advised them to only use them if they met their standards. I gave them a maximum budget and let them know to fix anything else they felt was needed at their discretion. I let them know only to contact me if they were going to exceed my budget or if they found anything of major concern. I now have a car that is much more sound, more enjoyable to drive and came in well below the cap I set on the budget. That surprised me as I thought it would cost more for the list I gave them. They made money, I saved some and felt as if I received what I paid for.

amxone

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for your opinion but you are well off-base and that opinion wasnt even close to what happened in this case. If you had a list of the parts I bought and the issues that were brought, you wouldnt opine in that fashion. i see many opinions on this issue but Im not alone. my friend that referred me called the shop to complain and regrets sending me there after he hear what went on. the shop that built my FD knows first hand of the experience because they listened to my phone calls with them and stopped them from charging more for unncessary work. most of all they know of the experience because they had to totally rebuild my FD after it went for a simple tune. i appreciate all the TP defenders but you are clueless when it comes to this issue here. if you had a simple stock build you cant talk about this issue. this was a simple street port which had suspension and a turbo to install. anything more than that is fluff. like I said my current shop does quality work and none of the issues . they saw my care when I got it back and they shook their heads at it and asked who would do that kind of work? so unless you are on this side with more than one eye to vouch, you dont have a clue. i went back with hopes as ANY should to get it rectified. you can READ as you said. but if you overlooked any such claim that the car was road worthy or that I have been driving the car you havent been reading well. that is the point in this matter when someone spends 14k on a car. i dont care what you think. I can buy a NEW car for 14k. if a shop takes 14k for just LABOR. I am damn sure you will demand your car runs and is everything you expected. that 14K does not include the money i spent for parts so buddy I spent a GRIP and a half on this car. so unless you can come here and look at my car and show me 14k worth of work you shouldnt speak on this issue.

amxone

iTrader: (8)

now im pissed. there has been a entry to ask why the blog isnt closed. there are defenders of a shop and no one knows the facts of this issue. i wanted to ignore this but the arrogance is offensive. No shop should make a villian of its customer. the customer wasnt willing to pay was what the last clueless person said. let me tell you BUDDY, I paid well in advance before my car was done, so shut it up! money was not an issue here. I bought whatever they claimed I needed and paid all the extra they claimed they required. I did my part as a customer and did not get my product. Anyone want to part my vehicle? you will find a ton of name brand parts not knock offs. the turbo and intecooler is all you will find as knock off. I get labeled for those parts as being cheap? I have taken more than enough crap from someone that has left me in shambles twice. friends of TP do nothing more than rile me with these phony posts of how they have the best experience. There are shops in L.A that will tell you otherwise. there is a shop here that will tell you otherwise. dont **** me off with defending this situation. Ive had three experiences. two with TP and one with my current shop. two were bad and I dont need to tell you which two. if I see anymore clowns trying to pull this ITS THE CUSTOMERS FAULT crap ill blow up give details of what exactly happened and will not hold back at Sevenstock when I see these dudes again. so chill out on this issue with trying to blame me for shoddy work and over-charging.

amxone

iTrader: (8)

my current shop took pictures of the whole process when they built my FD and even sent them to me. from painting, bodywork, engine build, suspension, interior, lights, everything. If I asked him for copies he would be able to provide them. if a shop did quality work they wouldnt be on a blog bad mouthing its customer. they would say no here are pictures of our quality work and would let you be the judge. when I got my FD back, my current shop knew exactly what was tampered with and took pictures of the damage as soon as it got to the shop. they even took pictures of my FC when it got back with leaks and wiring all over the place in disarray. Dont come at me with this bull when your in possession of my money.

amxone

iTrader: (8)

youre

Ston3dSnip3r

Bam! I agree 100 percent. I had that in common too i paid up front because i wanted to skip to the head of the line lol that must make me a bad customer too :/

and "jfantis" was just created and only has 16 posts yet he gets locked on to this thread and is an auto expert hhmm wonder who he might be. rofl

jfantis

I'll stay out of it from here unless specifically addressed. I don't know tri-point from triangle rent a car. I simply expressed an opinion from what I saw here. To me it seems clear. Your side didn't add up to me. This is a forum to discuss opinions and view points, don't be mad at me if that is what I gathered from the information posted here, as that is all I have to go on. I am just outside of Atlanta and a real person thanks. Hope all the best to you.

killalot13601

iTrader: (5)

I try not to post in this section but this time I will.
$14,000 is plenty to buy a FC, Parts, and labor to have a very well sorted car. It should look and perform like a car from the factory. Maybe my rates are far to low.

Natey

iTrader: (19)

I'm not feeling too damaged. California is one of the best places to live in the US if you drive a rotary powered car. I'm not going to start naming off the other dozen+ reputable shops in Cali, but from where I'm sitting, only ONE person is doing damage (to themselves) here.

FWIW: I was "quick to side with the OP" after 40+ posts, and more than one of them from you acting less than professional about this. I'll quit reading this nightmare of a thread now, but I'm also going to stay away from Tripoint.
Thanks for the heads up!

rx7roller02

Tell you what--you let me worry about if a thread here needs to be closed. That isnt your responsibility. Perhaps if you were more concerned about your responsibility, you wouldnt have a negative thread about you in the first place......food for thought.


OK, how's about I stick my nose in?

1--I've heard that argument too many times. Here's the fact.....Shops exist to take care of customers. Which one existed first, genius--your shop, or the need that you opened a shop to fill?? Think about that one for a little while....it'll sink in. Without your shop, someone else would have to work to make things available, yes, but without the customer base, you wouldnt have a shop. So do us all a favor and can the self-righteous nonsense.

2--whatever need you fill, it doesnt allow you the right to conduct poor business. I'm so damn sick of seeing shops pretending that they can do what they please because there isnt so much competition. This whole "take it or leave it" nonsense is not acceptable here--count on that.


So, wait a minute---earlier, you were working to convince us that this wasnt a "bad transaction" on your part....now youre admitting it?

Look, it is what it is at this point. I can tell you that I dont know the whole story and no one here likely ever will....but I can also tell you that for $14K, you should have been able to build one hell of a car, without such problems. I'm sure that in the end, both sides share some blame, but as the shop, it is your job to inform customers as far as they need to be informed about what you do. I own a business myself, and my customers come to me because they dont know how to do what I do. I must treat them in such a way because they dont know the business--if your customer knew what you know about these cars, would he shell out $14K for you to do the work? Chances are that he wouldnt.....perhaps you should un-swell your head from being "the reason for the market" and consider that.....


I wasnt aware that you had been elevated to moderator status, so that you could tell members here how to post......

rx7roller02

I'm slightly concerned with your credentials....

I am concerned because of one of your first posts on this forum:

https://www.rx7club.com/introduce-yo.../#post11433337

A master mechanic, etc etc etc....and you sound like a rookie. Coincidence?

So, you've been a master mechanic for 15 years.....and you graduated from Lassiter High School in 1999.....and you signed on with MATCO Tools as a rep in 2011......and you spent two years as a service manager.....I'm no master mechanic or anything, but that doesnt add up to 15 years on my calculator....

Oh, one more thing....and the only reason why I looked into this is because youre so proud of your certifications that in 17 posts, you had to mention them twice.....I did not know that 15-year master mechanics worked at Goodyear tire shops like E.H. Sellers.....yes, I know they do more than just tires and oil changes, but combined with everything else, it does look rather suspect.

But I digress.....

Of course it wouldnt--you dont even work in a shop anymore, for one thing. And second, you dont even know what a street port is, so youre right--an RX7 would not have been put on a lift in "your shop".


I know you might find this hard to believe, being a "15 year master mechanic" and all, but here's the problem with your thought process--it assumes that customers know as much as the shop does about this sort of thing. I deal with customers every day....and I do custom work. Nearly all of my customers have little to no idea about this business before they called me. I have to take the time to show them what is available, show them photos, explain some details, etc etc....a good shop or business will take the time to learn from the customer what he's looking to accomplish, and then help him get there. you own an FD and you dont even know what a street port is....so you should understand where I am coming from on this. Customers arent going to know as much as the shop does--that is why the shop needs to be educated and experienced enough to simply say "no" when it is appropriate. This one did not do that. That isnt the customer's fault.


Does that philosophy work for you at Matco Tools too?

Anyway, if a customer chooses their own parts, then an agreement should be made up front, the moment that is learned by the shop. It appears that was not done in this case. Again, the shop should know better....not the customer. The shop does this work every day--the customer does not.


Just a minute ago, you were faulting the customer for not knowing what he wanted....now, youre insisting that he shouldnt know what he wants and should let the shop have the say? Sorry, I dont buy that. The customer and the shop should have had a get-together with the car present. Customer should have laid out his goals. Shop should have looked over the present condition of the car and advised on the best ways to reach those goals. There should have been a meeting of the minds--led by the shop, since they do this every day. That is what makes a professional shop stand out. it is what allows me to stand out in my field, because my customers get service that they would NEVER see from some big overpriced contractor.

But the shop pulled the trigger on this job without setting that all up....and they should know better than the customer.

And yet, he seems to have been perfectly happy with the other shop his car went to....? you have not seen the car, so you have no place to make such a comment. Unless you can physically look at the work performed, you are out of line there. What is the customer looking at when he sees something that looks wrong to him? Is it actually something wrong, or does he just not know better?? You dont know....so dont assume.


It seems that the car sat without being worked on for most of its 6 months at the shop.....but you know that already, since you "read every post in this thread". The shop, to their credit, took the car back and fixed things. And I'm happy to see that. but as in any service business, proactive works much better for relations than reactive.





but....but....but....you read every post!! So how did you miss when he said that he was only speaking in general and not complaining about that shop?


hmmm.....

Not always the case. Lots of people are running ebay parts on their cars. CX Racing is a very well known supplier of intercoolers, etc etc...and I see them on all kinds of modded cars, from imports to domestics. Is it the best possible choice? No, I'm sure it isnt....but is it quality enough that you dont need to spend hundreds more on a big name brand? I've never seen anyone have a problem with theirs....Again, youre speculating. you have not laid eyes on one single part, dont even know the brand names on any of them. The shop could be right in that--but we dont know enough information to say either way. neither do you.....so please stop pretending otherwise.



you do realize that unless you buy an intercooler kit specially designed for your car, that even higher-dollar IC's need to be custom fabbed into the car, right? And even many "custom kits" require modifying the car to make them fit. So what is your point, again?



Again, I'm no master mechanic or anything....but I put together a FMIC setup for a supercharged T-bird. It really wasnt that much work to fab everything up.....and there isnt a whole lot of room under that hood for extra things to fit either. All in all, it went rather smoothly.

but what do I know....I'm not a 15-year pro or anything...


Then the shop should have spoken up from the beginning.

Congrats on being in business for yourself....there is nothing better. I know I could never work for someone else ever again.


But youre a mechanic, right? you know how this all works. The average customer....isnt.....and you need to account for this truth. It is that simple. Some customers will never understand no matter what you tell them or how often.....but if that happens and the shop starts the project anyways? Then it is all on the shop, for choosing to move forward like that.

Ston3dSnip3r

@rx7roller02 Holy **** dude.. i cant even find his remains.. that was brutal lol.

TougeSpirit

iTrader: (12)

I bet he is one of the very few people capable of winning an argument with an angry woman.

jfantis

Roller thanks for the concern on my credentials you can look them up on the ASE site if you like. Yes I was fifteen when I first started in the industry, working in a British restoration shop, so the math is there. Yes Goodyear stores are mostly independent garages and yes they do everything from heavy line work to advanced level diagnostic. Oh and they have high school kids that mount tires, but 70% of their revenue is mechanical. As you pointed out in my introduction post I know next to nothing about rotary engines as they are less than one percent of the US market, that in no way effects my credentials. Those were posted to give an idea of where my view point was coming from, nothing more. To state again I am not a rotary expert very far from it, however I know a good deal about FI and EFI tuning and repair.

Excluding the personal attack of my credentials you did make some excellent points. I agree the shop definitely should have nailed down the plan better. As you stated they should have made sure the customer was happy before ever allowing the car to leave, even if that meant eating some costs on completing the job. In my business and as a mechanic I would not accept money until work is done to the customers satisfaction, nor should they have. They really should have given the customer much more guidance on parts choice if they weren't the ones sourcing them, as they were to be the ones installing them. Thank you for your perspective, it definitely moved my opinion much more in another direction. I definitely get the point that I am not an average consumer, so it is much harder for me to see it from that perspective. I think this all could have been avoided if the shop communicated with the customer more effectively. However I wish the customer would post some pictures of the work as that would be a much better insight into the quality of the work.

killalot13601

iTrader: (5)

rx7roller02 is why I try to post very little of my opinion in this section of the board, I am sure he can make me look like an ***. I respect his level of commitment to moderation. I enjoy reading this section more then the rest of the board.

jfantis

Killalot I don't feel like an ***, other than his questioning of the credentials which are public record he did make some good points and allowed me to see things from a different perspective. I simply come here to learn more about vendors and in this instance my perspective lead me to side with the shop too quickly. I am now on the fence regarding this issue. However as new owner I an very interested in this subject of vendors because I like to research before I spend money with a company. I would live to see some pictures of the work to better judge the situation.