GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Sorry, but you have NO idea how a shop works. None. Go read what moneymaker posted above, he pretty much hit the nail on the head.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

I will also add that almost everything needs to be ordered for an RX7 and it can take a week or a couple months to get it sometimes. Ether way owning a shop is not what its cracked up to be. Its hard to make everyone happy at once. There will always be that one customer out of 100 customers that's not happy and he will tell all his friend whats going on and that will make the shop look bad. So in the end its a catch 22 and all you can do is your best and try not to give your self a heart attack in the process. If you are a true rotary performance shop you are always over booked.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Goodfella Its true.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

you are ******* high.

and the last thing a shop should be doing is stupid fast rebuilds, that is where mistakes are made and problems arise. most people who do this job don't even visit this board, the very few who do know what it takes to do this job and usually eventually wind up questioning why they do it at more than a few points in time.

porting alone takes me about 6 hours. bloated? shut the **** up. about the only bloated figure is the figure for tuning which is a 2-3 hour window. a real rebuild is an over 40 hour job micing and inspecting parts to be in or out of spec, cutting side seals to fit, cleaning parts thoroughly. not taking apart an engine and putting it back together with the same grease on it as it came apart with. average rebuilds take a week, an EMS install a few days, porting 1 day and a tune is another half a day(a number of hours wasted getting to and from the dyno, setting it up and possibly waiting on others ahead of you)

i do agree that the issue many people bring up about not communicating is probably the biggest issue. the shop should have a sole shop phone, a phone that is answered when it rings so that people can get a hold of someone, anyone. i'm almost always buried but i still pick up the damn phone. if i can answer the phone then no one else has any excuse why not to.

go open your own shop if it is that easy...

best advice i can give is for those of you who are rebuilding a car, get it done in winter time not summer time. that is when rotary shops are the slowest, because everyone waits until the last goddamn minute when summer starts and want their car done right then and there. want an engine done even faster? do the removal and reinstall yourself. most of the longer jobs i do get buried due to that simple issue of shop space and the line that forms to do those jobs. it's almost easier and quicker to do the rebuilds if just the engines come in because you can do processes on numerous engines at the same time which actually makes the process faster. not having to deal with the issues of a 25 year old chassis is also a benefit and big time saver.

Gringo Grande

iTrader: (97)

Interesting...another well know builder on the forum told me winter is the busiest time because that is when everyone blows their engines from the cold giving more HP and not adjusting for it.

Based on my personal build experience so far...ordering parts and waiting for them takes an unexpected, inordinate amount of time.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

engines pop year 'round. if a builder feels engines pop only in winter then they likely have a poor tuner in their area. if engines are blowing due to cold weather then they are either tuned too aggressively or have inadequate fuel modifications/too many modifications for the fuel system to support.

getting parts for these cars has and always will be a "hit and miss" scenario because many parts are custom made in short runs. hell, most of the time you have to special order spark plugs because they aren't even shelf items for even generic chain stores. an organized shop of course will have all bases covered and have most common things shelved and even some uncommon things.

if some shops are busy all year 'round i give them props. i have ALWAYS noticed that winter is slower and as soon as tax returns come in so does the work.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

I cant agree more. I am always slow in the winter time. Thats when i tell everyone to come for there big jobs. LOL but they always what till first nice spring day to call and im like dude your number 25 on the list you waited to long. When i said It took along time to order stuff I meant semi p port lower intakes, Throttle bodys, fuel rails, g force transmission,ext..... just the specialty items. That kind of stuff would cost to much to keep in stock. I still answer the phone if I can.

Bryan Jacobs

iTrader: (66)

I'm with Roller on this one. Fact of the matter is if there was a delay that should have been communicated by the person doing the work. It should not be up to the customer to harrass someone for an update especially when thousands of dollars are involved and the car has been sitting there over a year. Any shop owner with 15+ rx7s to works on at a time is obviously making enough money to hire some help- if only to answer phone calls and take inquiries. Now if we're talking about a smaller operation thats one thing but this is not a small operation. Making excuses for poor customer communication is simply just that- an excuse. I'm honestly surprised this shop is still doing the business it has considering its long and storied past being involved in shadiness.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

Thats true man. But its not the same owner. Peter doesn't own the shop any more and it is just a small shop now with Ray working on everything.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well if he is that buried in work he needs to figure out a few things.

if you starve a dog enough then the first time you feed it he will make himself sick eating as much as possible. he may need all those deposits to pay his past due bills, definitely sounds shady to me.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

If he is the only one working in the shop and has 15 projects... he should not have taken on another job...

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

Well in the end it is what it is. I cant say anything about that. But what I can tell you is. You wait for good rotary techs. Its a tough business working on these cars and there are two sides to every story.

rx7roller02

I have said it before and I will say it again--

THERE IS A LIMIT TO THIS WAITING.

I will not tolerate these excuses in here, folks. It is this simple--GOOD SHOPS PROVIDE REALISTIC TIME FRAMES FOR COMPLETION OF WORK. GOOD SHOPS ALSO KEEP IN CONTACT WITH CUSTOMERS IF SOMETHING CHANGES THAT PLAN. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

I am fed up with how some of the folks around here pretend we should wait indefinitely, and do it with a smile, in cases like this. Should you wait for a good shop to get to you?? YES--WHEN THEY ARE REALISTIC WITH YOU. If this shop owner knew he was that busy, then he should NEVER have given a time table of "8-12 weeks" for the project to be done. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. And if something happened to change that time frame, HE DAMN WELL SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE PHONE ADVISING HIS CUSTOMER.

I am a business owner myself, so I know all about keeping customers informed, and realistic time frames. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. There is NO good reason why a shop cannot at least call or send an email to a customer saying "hey, sorry for the delay, here's whats up and it will delay your car's completion by a couple months".....or something to the effect. I think you would find that LOTS more people would be willing to wait--and HAPPILY do so--if only they were kept informed!

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NO COMMUNICATION AT ALL. When you run a shop, you need to remember that your customer spent thousands with you already and will spend thousands more to pay for the completed job. That DESERVES updates. I dont want to hear this crap about how "he cannot be on the phone if he's working on cars 24-7...." It is not the customer's fault if the business owner doesnt know how to properly run his business so that he has the two minutes it takes to make a phone call within a whole year.

Slevin_FD

iTrader: (26)

It is in no way as easy as you think, especially when you have multiple projects going at once. And on top of that your juggling life, family, bills, business obligation, R&D, fabrication, repair, technical assistance, tuning and the myriad of other things that come up on a day to day business. There are times when I'm making phone calls tracking down parts or checking on a part that I ordered months past that still hasn't been made which throws me behind until it's done. Latest example you might have heard about. I ordered an Ecu on Monday afternoon it didn't ship until late wed. Why, My supplier was busy running his business and got behind. Customer gets pissed at me although it's not my fault. Now, I understand this, but really somethings are outside of my control. If you want perfection buy a new car and don't modify it at all. Or Alternatively you can do your own work.
This is a small and specialized community. Things take time, and especially with the way most of us modify our cars it's slow going at times. So long as your car is being worked on and returned in a timely manner ( about a year for something big and extravagant) I personally would be content to wait knowing that when I do get it back it's done correctly and not some rushed hack job. That's why this 20B is taking so long to finish. Right now i wish Logan would weigh in on this as well. Last i heard he was slammed with work and consequently there have been delays on getting things finished. But admittedly that was awhile ago when i heard that. Nevertheless, A good bit of the shop owners are in agreement here it seems.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

careful, common sense will not be tolerated here and businesses are all 100% alike.

parts are abundant and on every parts shelf at your corner store, the cars never have issues due to age and time is always in your favor.

since my change in aim i decided to chuck the main issue(yes i decided to try one last time but **** working on the shells, i will do mainly the engines, minor work and tuning but i will shoo away installs. it's tough to get behind just building engines but running into dozens of issues on some cars puts you behind a week or more at a time), which is working on the rotten old cars. i will build you a motor and the occasional R+R i choose but i shoo away the cars because they're shitboxes to make any profit on and are what always set you behind. we all rely on other people as well, like the current issue i had today trying to fire up a rebuild on an S5 with engine install. no fuel... why? the injectors were just serviced locally. well the service shop apparently sucks *** and all 4 injectors were stuck from sitting on the shelf for 3 weeks.

but as the builder it's always just your fault. well that's bullshit, and why i tell these little stories to give perspective, regardless of what anyone here thinks.

this in no way condones this thread however, 1 year is still a damn rediculous figure and if i were the OP i would look to a small claims suit and get your car out of there.

rx7roller02

karack, we are not even remotely talking about this scenario, so put an end to this nonsense, and fast. You dont have any idea what the condition of the car is because no one has heard from the shop to tell us! So PLEASE, stop making it up and trying to apply it where it does not fit.
That is the issue at hand. Is there a problem with the car? Could be....but why in the world would the shop keep playing this nonsense after a whole year? This is where your comments should have started....and ended.....to throw in extra commentary that has no relevance to this thread useless, Ben.....we all get it. we all know youre angry at the world. Now put it to rest already--none of that is relevant to this particular issue.

Dude, youre not getting it. There is not one single legitimate reason why ANY shop owner cannot take one minute or two out of a YEAR and make a damn phone call. NOT ONE. I dont care how many projects you have come through your shop--if you have time to answer the phone to take new customers in that year, then YOU HAVE TIME TO MAKE A LOUSY PHONE CALL TO UPDATE YOUR PRESENT CUSTOMERS. THIS IS THE WAY IT IS. THIS IS WHAT WE EXPECT OF BUSINESSES HERE.

I dont need to hear for the thousandth time about "families, bills, etc etc etc". WE ALL have those. Each one of us has responsibilities, work, family, and so on and so on. Let's put the shoe on the other foot--suppose you and your shop helped me out by fixing my car when I was too tight on cash to pay you. Lets say I promised to pay you within 3 months in full, so you let it ride. What if I did not call you for one year plus, and when you finally tracked me down, my answer to you was "sorry, I was too busy to call you, I have a job, and a family, and a house, and bills.........."....??? THERE IS NO EXCUSE. You need to stop trying to justify what has happened here. It is that simple.

YOU, as the shop owner, set the expectation. The OP took his car to a shop and was told "it will be done in 8-12 weeks". Why in the hell would that customer expect it to take longer? Isnt the shop owner supposed to be a professional? Arent we supposed to trust what you, the professional shop owner, tell us? HE DID THAT. If it is not reasonable for this guy to expect his car to be done in 2-3 months, then that shop NEVER SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIM THAT TIME FRAME. THE SHOP messed up in that case, NOT THE OP. I am sick and tired of shop owners complaining like this. WHEN YOU TELL A CUSTOMER A SPECIFIC TIME FRAME, IT IS UP TO YOU TO DELIVER WITHIN THAT TIME FRAME, PERIOD. HOW DIFFICULT CAN THAT POSSIBLY BE TO UNDERSTAND?? And NO SHOP OWNER ANYWHERE has any right to get pissed at a customer that expects their car to be done when you tell them it will be!

Let's remember something here, folks--you are in business to SERVE YOUR CUSTOMER, not to get it done when youre damn good and ready despite what you told that customer in the beginning. This shop should have been more honest in their time frame, and they also should be communicating at least once in a while with the OP. Hell, they have his car and $3500 of his cash....why is it too much to ask for a friggin phone call once in a while--especially if there is a delay? Like I said earlier, the shop isnt too busy to answer the phone enough that they now have 15 cars at once! NO EXCUSE.

Ben, youre on your last leg with me. I have just about had it with your sarcasm that isnt warranted and your **** poor attitude towards me. This is not the Ben show. I have repeated this forum's stance on businesses many times to you and I do not need or want to hear another excuse like this. Stick to the issue at hand in the thread or do not post in the thread at all. We do not need to constantly be reading your complaining posts about how "common sense will not be tolerated here". COMMON SENSE dictates that you as a shop ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR DAMN CUSTOMERS. I have been telling you this for over a year now....and youre still banging this same tired old ridiculous drum. Its really funny how you talk about how you have no time for anything....but you always have time to engage in this nonsense in these threads.

This is how it goes, Ben....I have always been the first person to stand up for your work, but your attitude sucks. This is the LAST TIME you will post crap like this in a feedback thread. LAST TIME. If you want to talk about RELEVANT things to the issue at hand, by all means, feel free. But NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, needs to read yet another complaining post from you about how common sense isnt tolerated here, the builder is always wrong, the error is the customer's fault, there's no profit in this, blah blah blah. WE ARE DONE WITH THIS NONSENSE. Youre a shop owner that has complained for so long now that you dont have time to breathe because youre so backed up....yet you have almost 15,000 posts on this forum and you NEVER have a problem finding the time to whine and cry about how bad the RX7 business is. I have much respect for your work, but I am not going to keep beating this same dead horse with you. Hell, EVEN WHEN YOU ADMITTED BEING AT FAULT with that deal of yours some months ago I STILL publicly defended you and came down harshly on anyone that tried to paint you as dishonest. But THIS NEEDS TO STOP.....NOW.

As stated, you are plenty welcome to discuss the issues at hand in a particular thread. But this thread is about how a shop took a man's car and his $$$, promised him a 2-3 month turnaround, and over a year later they will not contact him in any way--not so much as one single returned email or phone call--to let him know whats going on with his car! When there is a delay, a PROFESSIONAL SHOP does not EVER wait for the customer to track them down in order to pass this info along. This guy was promised several times that his car would be ready. And it never was! HOW CAN ANYONE TRY TO JUSTIFY THAT?

This is the end of this mess, Ben. Post to the topic at hand or dont post in these threads at all. Your choice.

galvatron10000

iTrader: (4)

i don't own a shop, but in business if you don't meet your promess, you will lose your shirt pretty fast. in construction, when a company don't meet schedule, they will have to pay a fine everyday the contract is not completed. maybe its different with shops, but the concept should be the same and as for delays, when a customer wants a custom part who is in back order, its the duty of the shop to immediatly contact the customer.

that's why i don't use shop to do my work, on my baby. no offence to the honest shop in here

Slevin_FD

iTrader: (26)

In my defense. If I get behind schedule by say a month I offer a partial refund. Generally 10%. It keeps me honest and the customer happy. I'm simply saying things come up that are outside of shop owner control.

rx7roller02

Then if thats all youre saying, why not just say that and spare the rest? We arent even talking about your shop to begin with and thats another problem. This thread is about one specific shop, and you try to defend the shop owner by saying something totally different than this latest post??

From this point on, we do not need any more comments from other shop owners defending this one. The guy has not responded properly to his customer, let alone this thread, and from what we have seen so far his position is indefensible. There is no excuse for not keeping a customer informed. And I am not going to tolerate a single one more. Things "outside the shop owner's control" have not been demonstrated here. We have not heard one mention of parts on back order, or any other delay beyond the shop's control. What we HAVE heard is a constant stream of excuses and new promises--all of which have also been broken.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

Well, With that said. Anyone else feel like there's a purple elephant in the room.........well, It is now up to the owner to determine what he wants to do. I know its far but, I would go and talk to him first and see what you can work out to get your car done. Then if that doesn't work take the car but, give him that chance before making things complicated.

jon4825

iTrader: (1)

Well guys.. Thought I would give an update. Still no car. It is close to 18 months now. Back in April and August I brought my family with me, wife and (2 kids) 3 year old and newborn, to his shop. I explained to him that I only have 1 working car and I need my FD back. Talk about misery sharing 1 car with my wife dropping me at work everyday.. taking the kids to daycare..packing the kids up.. picking me up from work... someone shot me... Anyway I thought this would motivate them to finish my car. He promised me that by the end of august he would have the car finished or I would not have to pay the other 3k I owe for the work on my car (paid almost 4k when i dropped it off). I was happy to hear that.. but now its Oct...almost November,,,18months STILL NO CAR>


My first rebuild experience 5 years ago I ripped off by Scott at Mazsport for 16k now I get the Best tuner in MD kidnapping my car.. WHY ME????

I have so much time invested at this shop..At this point my dream of having an RX7 is dead. Bought it 5-6 years ago.. Only put about 6k miles on it and its suppose to be my daily driver... you can imagine how my wife hates me after this torture..

Sorry for rambling...Its almost 3am here and I am just pissed about my car... Anyone know of good shop that turns out quality work in descent time?



*Note .. I did not just drop my car off 18 months ago. I called them 2-3 months before my build and scheduled when they would have time for my project. and no my car was not missing parts.. i actually ran when i dropped it off.

TENAZ

iTrader: (2)

WHY ME????

Sorry to hear that,Personally I got screwed up by a "Local wanna be shop" around my area.This Garage has been banned to do any business on this forum.
As the moderator said before when the business owners tells you when you car is going to be ready expect to be ready "NO EXCUSES".(Besides you gave him already a deposit)
On my own opinion there are mechanics they like to take advantaje of the customers specially when they are woman or when they don't know nothing about this type of engine.
My suggestion is to Contact the MD state attorney/file a complaint to get your money back.The reason is simple "You paid them and they Fail to honor services".
I don't know if this link may help you : https://web.oag.state.md.us/editor/c...autorepair.htm
You can call them up to see if they service your area.
My best wish to get your money back

Jhereg

iTrader: (27)

I'd be contacting a lawyer. Free consultation plus an hour of his time, and he can write up a letter that would put your FD to the front of the line. Too bad you don't have what he said about the rest of the work being free in writing. I doubt he will honor that, citing selective amnesia.

Sorry to hear about the mess. 18 months is insane.

Bryan Jacobs

iTrader: (66)

Not to sound like an ******* but with a wife and two kids there is NO WAY you should have purchased this car as your only car/daily driver. There are certainly some owners that DD their FD but those are certainly in the minority. Most of us have a normal DD. If you have 16k plus 7k (23k total) to put into your FD you should certainly have 4-5k to buy a cheap honda DD or something similar. That being said 18 months is completely ridiculous. Unique Precision Rotary seems to have a good reputation although I have had no personal dealings w/ them, you can pm moneymaker.

moneymaker42141983

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=Bryan Jacobs;11263573]Not to sound like an ******* but with a wife and two kids there is NO WAY you should have purchased this car as your only car/daily driver. There are certainly some owners that DD their FD but those are certainly in the minority. Most of us have a normal DD. If you have 16k plus 7k (23k total) to put into your FD you should certainly have 4-5k to buy a cheap honda DD or something similar. That being said 18 months is completely ridiculous. Unique Precision Rotary seems to have a good reputation although I have had no personal dealings w/ them, you can pm moneymaker.[/QUOTE

Thanks for the good words bryan. Let me know when your ready for your rebuild. Im really sorry to hear how long this rebuild has been taking. Im sure your wife is not to happy with you right now. If there is anything I can do to help just let me know.