gkarmadi

iTrader: (20)

It'll be better if the news came from an officer (police) that the reason ur car/ motor is being seize as suspected stolen property (rather than an average joe keeping ur property and claim as his/hers).
To op why haven't u file a complaint to BBB or police department?? (Or have you??)

And they are many business that are good/great and became shady (even scamming ppl) after along period of time. You must've seen
Heard//experience this at one point as well.

89t295k

Police are not going to do anything if there is a question of it be a civil case.

As I understand it she has no proof it is her car and not involved with the guys who ripped him off.


I don't think it is right to assume anything unless we have all the facts.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

BAD Business man PERIOD.

Look at it like this, say Rob owned a heating and air company and installed a new furnace in a house, well the guy who owned the house wrote a bad check for the furnace and “Robs” services. In the mean time the owner of the house sells the house, months pass, the new owners of the home were told the furnace was new and under warrantee and it malfunctions so they call “Rob” who installed the system to take a look and repair the problem. Rob shows up to take a look at this furnace realizes it was the house of the guy with the bad check. After checking his records Rob then realizes the home now has a new owner.


What should Rob do?


1. Rip the furnace out of the new owner’s house and take a few other valuable items from the house and hold them ransom until the new owner shows Rob the deed to their house or pays the funds due by the previous owner in connection to his/her contractual agreement with Rob.


2. Inform the new owner that the previous owner did not pay for the furnace and that it voids the transferable warrantee and write the new owner a quote to repair and wish them luck.


3. Think to himself “man I must be one dumbass for not pursuing the previous owner in order to recover the funds due to me”.


If you picked #1 then you really need to seek help or sue your teachers assuming you went to school.


If you picked #2 and #3 or any combination of… you WIN!!!!

89t295k

You are ASSUMING Rob has proof is given proof that it has changed hands.

This is just bad luck for all involved--shlt happens.

I think Rob did agree to give her stuff back if she could prove she bought it- that is more than fair.

rx7roller02

guys, this is just plain stupid.

Let's use some brain power now....suppose Rob's suspicion was true, and this is just a friend of the previous owner, trying to get the work done for him. Dont you think the previous owner KNEW that the warranty expired, since it's been 6 years since the rebuild???? THINK ABOUT THIS....

Since it's pretty much obvious that ANYONE would truthfully realize there was no warrantee if they knew how long ago the rebuild was done, why would this guy send his car with a "new owner" friend BACK to the same shop he owes money to? That plan would require the previous owner to actually think and believe that he was still under warranty.....come on already! That's the fact here--Rob is holding onto her engine and her extra parts all because of a plan that would require the previous owner to not know his warranty expired already. Shoot, a simple look on his website tells you that his warranty is 5 years/60,000 miles....this aint rocket science, folks.

If YOU owed this shop money, would YOU send YOUR car back there for any reason?

What we do have, for now, is the following statement from the people who now own this car....from the first post of the thread:

Let's get real here--if the DMV's telling you that the car is hers, I think that's a credible enough source. Dont you? Without Rob here to tell his side, this is all the info we've got. What will we hear next--that the previous ownewr sold her the car just so she could get it fixed, then she's gonna sell it back to him?? Unless anyone can prove otherwise with hard facts, I think it's safe to say she owns the car already.

One more thing--it doesnt matter if she knows the previous owner, is related to him, is his friend, is dating him, or whatever. If she bought the car then she bought the car. I have a brother that's a convicted child molester...should that crime be held against me because he's my brother? I didnt think so.

My guess is because he called the Utah DMV and was told that the car is hers now....but that apparently wasnt good enough. I dont have the slightest idea why it isnt good enough....do you?

Theft by deception would only apply to whatever parts Rob furnished--not anything else, and most definitely not her external parts. That would not apply to the service of rebuilding, that falls under a different category.

Thats all well and good, but that's NEvada law, whereas she is in Utah and Pineapple is in Oregon. Neither one of them is subject to NV law.

The bottom line here is simple--Rob overstepped his bounds. Legally speaking, he does not have the authority or the power to seize the engine, the parts or anything else. If he suspects theft, then he needs to contact the police, PERIOD. He does not have a legal leg to stand on with his actions. The one and only way he would have the right to hold this property is if he had a written contract which THIS OWNER signed(not the previous owner) that specifically said he had the right to take possession of said goods in the event that the payment wasnt good. He doesnt have a legal leg to stand on here, and he should return the engine and the extra parts to her.

Flip side, if I were her, I would be on the phone to the police department in his town as soon as I first heard that he was keeping my stuff. He has broken the law, and is unlawfully holding her property. And while lots of things are civil matters, unlawfully holding property is not generally one of them. I feel for him, he got stiffed--but there's a right way and a wrong way to handle it. This is the wrong way.

rx7roller02

well, the OP did say that she had him call the Utah DMV and the DMV confirmed that its her car....what more would be needed?

In either event, it doesnt even matter because legally Rob doesnt have the right to demand such proof. She sent an engine to him and he unlawfully kept it. Even if he could prove that she was just trying to help out the previous owner, it still doesnt matter because Rob doesnt have the right to take the law into his own hands like that. The law doesnt allow him to force a customer to prove such info.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

he said, she said,

Let Rob say his version and we shall take it from there.. There is something missing from the story

rx7roller02

first off, thats what I already said too......but then again, for as long as this has gone on, Rob is strangely absent from this thread. That isnt MY doing....I for one would love to hear what he has to say. But that isnt my decision to make, is it?

Second, while some things are "he said, she said" about this, the action of Rob keeping the engine and parts is simply illegal no matter what he said or she said. Its that simple. The law does not allow for him to simply keep someone else's property, nor does it allow him to force that person to prove their ownership. Nothing at all in the law allows that to happen legally. And that is one thing that you just cannot ignore.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

BINGO!!! He has NO right to demand anything from her, its civil matter between Rob and the previous owner. Rob is danm lucky its an FD Girl he's dealing with cause most of the FC guys I know would cut someone up for some **** like this.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Im not sure who your post was directed at, but I made no assumption. He has no right to demand proof of anything. Im already spreading the word to every RX-7 guy I know.

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Let him?? Tell us who the hell is stopping him, so we can do something to that person? He knows the thread is here, his friend even said that he spoke with him about it, the fact that he has not come here to set things striaght speaks volumes.

gkarmadi

iTrader: (20)

If this was done by a newbie member (or just a member), he or she would've been force to response here (admin/s would've given him/her a notice about this thread) or otherwise he/she'll be banned.

This thread should be link to other rotary club. If Rob can steal here, he can steal motor else where(or claim that's his unpaid motor from 6yrs ago.

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

actually, i spoke to Rob about it, He needs some more posts in order to post here so give it some time

gkarmadi

iTrader: (20)

REALLY???!!! I tought he is a long time vendor (or ex vendor)??

rx7roller02

What kind of story is this? For one thing, isnt this his user account?

https://www.rx7club.com/members/pineapple-racing-7189/

Why would he need more posts to post in this section? Here is the rule about that....

Look, this thread was started on 3/26, it is now 6/5. Do you mean to tell me that he is trying to make enough posts to post in here, when it's been going on for over two months, he already has enough posts, and even if he didnt he would only need 5 posts to make it? He cannot be trying THAT hard to make enough posts if he cannot post 5 times in over two months.....dontcha think?

Meh, what do I know? I only know enough to see that he's already got 42 posts...but he needs to "make more posts" to reach 5...

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

He probably created a new account because he can't remember the password on his old one. Just a guess......

jshiz

iTrader: (4)

Couldn't he just pm a mod from a newb account and get the pw changed?

rescueranger

iTrader: (15)

agreed

rx7roller02

Do me a favor, please--speak to him again and have him PM me from his new account, thank you

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

according to the link you sent with his account, last activity is on 2002 so that must not be it anymore.

i will ask him to pm you

Megabridge

iTrader: (2)

Kevin, wow what an inaccurate story you tell.
Lets get the facts straight. Fact#1: The guy Kiki SAYS she bought the car from paid Rob with a bad check. Then disappeared. (Not Rob's fault) Fact#2: The motor was NOT under warranty after 6 years. (Not Rob's fault) Fact#3: The motor is shipped back to Pineapple Racing by the PREVIOUS owner and (they still have the shipping papers to back it up). Fact#4: This is the interesting part, so pay attention! Previous owner finds out Rob remembers not getting paid and says oops sorry! and now, all of a sudden Kiki appears saying she owns the car and wants HER engine back! At this point, something smells really bad, and it isn't yesterdays Taco Bell in the trash.
Hmmmm, sounds like there is some misplaced anger here. Shouldn't all your efforts be in pursuing the previous owner of the car? Oh thats right! He can't build a engine for you! Lets take it out on the poor bastard that got screwed in the first place! You idiot. Rob's not the bad guy here, you are. Shame on you. I'm going to Pineapple Racing for my next engine!

rx7roller02

Its really funny--youre talking about facts and you left a bunch of them out....


So far, I have yet to see anyone dispute this, or defend the guy that did it, so I really dont know what your point is in saying it again.


And again, where did anyone say that it was Rob's fault that the warranty expired? Once again, hows about we get to the point already? No one said it was his fault, in fact its been made abundantly clear in this thread that there is no such blame being placed on Rob at all about the warranty.

OK, so now youre telling us something that Rob should be telling us, and yet he's still not here, still not messaging me....and so we are only getting hearsay at this point until we have proof. And believe me, if there is proof of this, then I want to know because it means we have a forum member trying to screw people over and I dont take too kindly to that.



And now, it's time for those facts I was referring to at the start of this post. First, once again, all this is is hearsay until Rob steps up and provides proof. Let me make this clear--we do NOT need any more mouthpieces for either side of this issue. What we need is for both parties THEMSELVES to show up and participate so this can get resolved. If all youre going to do is come in here and tell us "the facts" then dont bother because it is Rob's responsibility to answer his complaint, not yours. And now, on to the facts.

1--this is a DEBT. That is what took place when someone wrote a bad check. A DEBT. And Pineapple is in Oregon. The statute of limitations for collecting on debts in Oregon is 6 years. You know what that means? Simple--at this point Rob couldnt even sue this guy in civil court over this unpaid debt, because the statute of limitations is expired. So, here's a FACT that you missed.....Rob had 6 years to handle this....and he for whatever reason chose not to. So now, that train has left the station...and THAT is Rob's fault because he didnt handle it in a timely fashion.

2--Rob is unlawfully holding onto parts that were not on the motor when it left his shop and had nothing to do with the work he did on it. That is 100% illegal. For that, it doesnt matter who owns the car. The thief that wrote the bad check could pop up and say "hey, those are my parts" and IT DOES NOT MATTER ACCORDING TO LAW. Now, that in no way means that I am siding with the crook that stiffed Rob--but the facts are the facts.Rob got the shaft, but that does not mean that Rob has the right to break the law because of it. And make no mistake, thats exactly what he has done by keeping this motor and parts.

Think about it--if you dont believe me, go look up the laws in Oregon concerning bad checks. Better yet, here, I will do it for ya....

http://www.consumerbadcreditguide.co...awsoregon.html

Where in there does it say that the victim gets to take back the merchandise? Oh, sorry, I guess it doesnt say that, does it? If the SOL wasnt expired, Rob could have sued this guy for the amount of the check, plus three times the amount of the check(up to $500 over the amount it was written for). But since SOL is expired, he can no longer do this. Also, I dont know off the top of my head but I would venture a guess that the SOL for criminal charges is also expired.

Simply put, at this point Rob can be arrested for theft, and possibly even grand theft if the value of the motor and parts is high enough. And once more, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO REALLY OWNS THIS CAR FOR THAT TO BE THE TRUTH.

Well, I might just be guessing, but it could be your ignorance of what "the facts" really are in this case. You shouldnt come in here going on about "the facts" unless you know "the facts".

well, good for you. you want a medal or something? Man, once again you decide to muddy the "facts" with more useless words. Who cares where youre going for your next engine? Wow, that's really relevant to the fact that Rob stole someone else's property and apparently thinks he is justified in breaking the law because someone else broke the law 6 years ago. Thanks for your help!!

88RXVERT

iTrader: (5)

Very well put rx7roller02. All these so called "friends" that "know" and have "talked" to "Rob" about this, excuses about post counts etc..but NO "ROB" ... its gotta make you wonder.

pineapple

Now that most of the varying view points have been expressed, I would like
to offer a few points:

Pineapple Racing and Rob Golden deny any and all theft allegations by
Kevin and Kiki expressed here. The slanderous statements are completely without merit.

Pineapple Racing does not like to talk about our business affairs in a public forum. In this case the topic was breached by the other parties.

This is a complex situation with many points of view. This statement concerns our views just relating to Mrs. Bernards request for the return of the external bolt-on items. To the best of our knowledge, SOMEONE ELSE OWNS the PROPERTY, namely D. B.

The said property was set to us by D. B., on D. B.’s behalf. We have the emails and Bill of Lading to prove this.

Since D. B. agrees he owes us the money, legal council has confirmed we may retain the externals as guarantee of payment.

It was only after we confronted D. B. that suddenly there was a new owner.
Since we had grave doubts in D.B. we checked some public sources and found D.B. and the new owner listed as “friends” on Myspace.

We only asked of the alleged new owner to show proof of ownership PRIOR to Pineapple Racing being contacted by D. B. for the most recent work. This would help alleviate concerns about the suddenly existing new owner being a method for D.B. to get back some of his items without paying for the motor. The motor by the way is badly damaged so of greatly diminished value.

To date, NO VERIFIABLE DOCUMENTATION HAS YET TO BE PROVIDED!

The one piece of documentation provided was a Utah car title which Kiki faxed to us.




In the words of Danny of Utah DMV “the title appears to have been altered.
The title document number and personal information match, but the vehicle, vehicle description and vin #(the partial provided) do not match our records”

For the doubters, just call Utah DMV(Salt Lake City) and ask for Danny. I am confident she will remember the situation since she requested us to fax her the copy we had. Please just appoint one person everyone trusts and I will provide enough info for this statement to be confirmed. I would not want Danny flooded with calls. Utah DMV will answer yes/no questions.

When this information was given to Kiki, she said the title was crossed up with another vehicle she owned. I called DMV to present the possibility.
The answer to my question as to if Kiki owned more than one vehicle was
NO!

I offered a list of other was to prove ownership.

Cashiers check receipt(I was told a $7k purchase price)-NO!

Bank Withdrawl receipt-NO

Utah safety check-NO, even though the station has to keep a copy.

Question: How can you register a car in Utah when you did not fulfill
the registration obligations? Utah would never have issued a title in the first place to be crossed up.
We have not even touched what I believe was attempted fraud if Kiki’s story of why D.B. sent in the motor for her was true. The short version: The motor was only under warranty to the original owner. By having D.B. send in the motor for warranty work under D.B. name, Kiki was not being lawful at best and committing a crime a worst(in my opinion). Kiki said that since
the motor turned out not to be under warranty her actions were OK. Just because you do not get away with an action, does not mean the action did not occur! That is why crimes like ATTEMPTED bank robbery exist.

We believe that D.B was not honest with us. We have a lot of save data
leaving us with grave doubts as to him honesty.

I hope this is enough for even the doubters to see there is much more here.
I believe the appropriate manor for this discussion would have been Kiki asking for your opinions on the subject. Kiki and her boyfriend, Kevin
and I have discussed this matter in length by phone and email. I believe if all pertinent data was given in an even manor, she would have received an answer she would not have liked. Knowing this, a tabloid method was used in an attempt to manipulate you. Some saw though it. For those that did not, another life lesson for which we all are constantly learning.

I am disappointed that the forum did not answer my email in regards to the title of this thread. Allowing slanderous thread titles is not appropriate. Since this forum is a business, I would ask they follow journalistic protocol by
verifying potentially slanderous thread titles. We are just a phone call away.
Have you taken time to consider why you almost never hear from the long time professionals of in open forums? This thread has exhibited some of those reasons.

I feel the goal of these forums which allow us to discuss our passion is to
be a positive. Whether you agree or not, every post should be toward that end. If it was, I think you would find more of the “wealth of knowledge”
people would return. I myself use to spend time late at night prowling
the forums to see if there was anything to add without pushing my business.
Just for the good of the community. I labeled myself so everyone who know
who I was. I never pushed a product we carried unless we were the only ones carrying it.


To the mod. who posted Oregon statue on theft. I disagree with your conclusions. Also since you hold a position of authority, may I ask that you consider that position when you post in the future. By posting, you gave the impression that could be construed to benefit one side. It this case I feel it was the incorrect impression.

Your position that since the statue of limitations(theft or similar) has expired that ownership of the motor was affected. I believe this is a merit less position. The statue of limitations only deals with CRIMINAL matters. The ownership is a civil matter. If the motor is considered “ill gotten gains” I believe a court would rule in our favor. There is precedent. Second, the alleged fraud occurred in NV, so Oregon statues do not apply. Third, if OR did apply, time is still within the statue.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

I am working on the complete story from our perspective. If you are interested, please email me for it when done. I will not be posting it since it is already much longer since it contains information concerning the original "purchaser".

rx7roller02

That would be much appreciated.

I hate to break it to you but your "legal council" lied to you. First off, youre talking about parts that 100% had nothing at all to do with the work you performed, period. That means that whether you address this from a criminal or a civil point of view you are in the wrong for keeping those parts. Imagine this--if you took an engine from me, what on earth would give me the right to take SOMETHING ELSE from you that I have absolutely no legal claim or right to possess? That aint how the law works, Rob. Trust me when I tell you this---not only did I major in criminal justice, but I am also an expert on debt collection law. If you knew how lawyers operate you would know that they frequently dont speak the truth because they are supposed to see the case from their client's point of view. So, every day in this country, lawyers try to do things that they know they cannot do, because especially in civil affairs most people dont know their rights under the law. That means if a lawyer does something he shouldnt do and you dont speak up against it, then he can routinely get away with it. Dont believe me? Go check out the world of debt collection sometime....you will see an ever-increasing trend fgor lawyers to sue debtors for accounts that are 10, 15, even 20 years or more--well outside the debt SOL. But in court, if the debtor does not invoke expired SOL as his defense, then the judge wont do it for them. With all due respect to you, you simply do not know the law like I do. And thats fine, I am certain you know rotary motors better than I do. But here's a tip--I dont go to your shop and tell you how to do a port job....so dont come in here and tell me how to moderate a forum, thanks.

None of this has anything to do with the fact that you have absolutely no legal claim to the external parts youre illegally holding onto.

See above. Your work consisted of the motor itself, not some parts he bought well after you did the work. Consider this--since youre claiming that this is a civil matter to begin with, consider when someone doesnt pay for a car loan. When the repo man comes, does he take the car, regardless of the condition? Or does he see a boat and say "well, that's worth more, so I will grab that instead"?? Think about this....youre playing well over your head right now and my one concern for you is that youre putting yourself into dangerous legal ground right now!

See above, none of that makes you legally able to keep someone else's property that had nothing to do with the work you performed. Period.

While this has nothing to do with your situation, I am very interested in this, because as I have already said in here, if this person is trying to pull something off, I WILL get to the bottom of it and I WILL handle that person. You can count on that.

Then why havent you gone after him legally?? You say youve already spoken to an attorney, what on earth are you waiting for? Another 6 years to go by? Look, I get what youre saying--my point is simply this: Go after him, YES, but DONT BREAK THE LAW YOURSELF IN THE PROCESS. Why is that hard to understand?


Apparently you are also not aware of the legal standing regarding public forums. We are often not allowed, as a forum, to intrude on free speech. Since you are not aware of the laws pertaining to such things, please do not make assumptions regarding such things. Thank you. Forums get into this situation a lot--you cannot hold a forum legally accountable for what someone else posts, just the same as you cannot hold me accountable for your action. "The forum" did not post the thread title you saw. A member did. And if you knew the law regarding such matters, you would know that that member is the responsible party. So, if you wish to pursue a case for libel, by all means, feel free--you already know the member that posted it.


Of course, you are absolutely free to disagree whenever you wish. But I urge you to consider something--of the two of us, only one spent a rather large chunk of money on an education in the law. You can disagree all you like, but that doesnt in any way change what the law states, or my knowledge of what it states.


So, let me get this straight--I called the guy that ripped you off, in exact words, a crook and a thief, among other things....and you STILL want to come in here and claim that my post was "benefitting one side"?? Please--at least give me the respect of reading my post for what it is and not ignoring half of it just so you can complain later. I certainly give you that respect, I dont see why you cannot do the same.

Allow me once more to stop you right there. Again, you clearly have no clue what youre talking about. Where do you get the idea that Statute of limitations is only a criminal thing?? Do me a favor, go online and do a simple search for "debt statute of limitations by state". Tell me what you come up with. And once more, I must ask that you stop trying to educate me on the law--while one of us clearly needs that education, rest assured it is not me.

Here's the fact--whenever you are referring to a sale of goods or services, you are referring to a CIVIL matter. Sale of something accompanied by an unpaid balance results in a DEBT. The DEBT STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS is EXACTLY what I told you it is. In Oregon, that is 6 years. This is fact--look it up. And, if you want to say that NV applies because the debt originated there, then it still doesnt help you because NV has two SOL's for debts...6 years for written contracts and 4 for oral agreements. And since everyone involved has said that 6 years has in fact gone by, you are past the SOL on all counts.

Since there are laws specifically to address bad checks and debts, you would have a hard time trying to use "ill-gotten gains" in court. You are of course free to try, but all the defendant needs to do to shut you down is respond to your summons with the affirmative defense of "expired statute of limitations". Once that happens, and once it is proven so, then the case WILL be dismissed. Trust me on that....But hey, like I said, youre more than free to waste your money...when all is said and done he wouldnt even be liable for your attorney fees.

Well then, in that case, feel free to use NV law instead. But then again, someone else already posted this statute from Nevada law:

In a nutshell, that says that even if he purchased the rebuild under illegal means, which is what he did, that he still has full right to that property. That's Nevada law, plain and simple. Are you SURE you want to try Nevada for this? Didnt think so. So, once more, all I did was speak the fact--you are unlawfully withholding his property. "ill-gotten gains" wont change that law, now will it?

Look, Rob, let me make this clear. I have every interest in getting to the bottom of this. And, if you were kind enough to actually read my post, you would have clearly seen me saying that the guy shafted you, but you dont get the right to do whatever you like in response to that. I am more than interested in the info you have regarding the owner and "supposed owner" of this car, because it would seem that some funny business has taken place. But understand this--that has NO bearing on whether or not you have broken the law yourself. Let's be clear on that point. I would like to see the info you have regarding D. B. and this other party, because I always want to know when someone tries pulling garbage like that in here. But you also need to take a good honest look at what you are doing before it gets you a call from the police.