Issue with Karack
03-07-12, 01:17 AM
#1
Issue with Karack
First I would like to introduce myself.
My name is Josh. I grew up in San Francisco’s lower-class Mission District and began working at 15 years old to support myself. I put myself through university by working full-time at Verizon Wireless’s main store in SF. That means getting up 7am, science lectures for 3 hours, then 10 hours working on my feet, then study for 3 hours, sleep at 1 or 2am for 5-6 hours, and repeat for 5 years. During my last year at the company, I was customer-ranked Verizon’s #1 rep in service excellence among all Verizon retail employees within all 12 Western United States, so I’m familiar with business, customer service, and the way you treat people in general. I recently graduated with a Pre-Medical B.S. in Cell and Molecular Biology, and I’m in the middle of medical school interviews, with my 5th med school interview scheduled in a few days on March 9. Currently I’m the Volunteer Coordinator at San Francisco General Hospital’s Emergency Department and Level 1 Trauma Center, where I work along side ER doctors and nurses with direct patient interactions in the most violent and gruesome Bay Area stat traumas, and I manage the ED training staff for the premedical student volunteers.
I don’t take drugs or drink alcohol. I have paid off all my credit cards and student loans, and I’ve paid my rent for the next year. I’m a straight-forward guy, and I naturally interact with people with honesty and integrity, even when they don’t deserve it. In my free time I work out (6x/week), waste time on my Mazda, and ignore my ex-girlfriends.
I’m not just some kid with an RX-7, which, by the way, I bought and funded with my own money as well.
.......
What bites me is that I could have rebuilt my engine myself. I don’t like paying someone to do something I can do myself. The issue is that I don’t have a garage. I’ve done almost all my car’s work in front (or up the street) of my apartment, but a rebuild isn’t exactly something you can do with the car parked on the street with traffic going by.
I met Ben Blankenhorn (forum name “Karack”) in Jan 2011 at a tuning session in NorCal. We had a few short random rotary-related conversations, and for the most part on the forum, people seem to blindly trust him as well. So I begrudgingly decided to have Ben perform the rebuild at his shop in Las Vegas, Rotary Evolution. I figured I could trust him to be almost as meticulous as myself on rebuilding my engine.
Unfortunately, this turned out to be one of the worst experiences on many levels, as you will see in the following detailed chronology of events.
Over the last few weeks, I’ve been working my FD in the street, including cleaning up the interior and exterior and recently fixing 7 vacuum leaks under the hood, despite the recent freezing weather and rain and having to work outside. Honestly I had to work on my car myself - something I should have done in the first place - and take some time to get my mind off how this person conducted himself and the way he operates his “business.”
I’m not one to get angry or lose my temper, and I’ve always communicated with Ben in a polite and professional manner, even though Ben has been consistently dishonest, quite disrespectful and very unprofessional to say the least. People should not unknowingly do business with someone like this or have to go through anything like the drama I had to deal with, which is bad enough in itself. But on top of all the absurdity, taking money from a customer without ever working on their car is not acceptable, and such an act should not go on with impunity.
That is the reason for this thread.
******* I think it’s important for people to know what happened and to share my experience regarding what I went through only to be given the runaround, constant excuses, and getting ripped off in the end for NO WORK EVER DONE for the entire time my FD was at Ben’s shop. *******
My name is Josh. I grew up in San Francisco’s lower-class Mission District and began working at 15 years old to support myself. I put myself through university by working full-time at Verizon Wireless’s main store in SF. That means getting up 7am, science lectures for 3 hours, then 10 hours working on my feet, then study for 3 hours, sleep at 1 or 2am for 5-6 hours, and repeat for 5 years. During my last year at the company, I was customer-ranked Verizon’s #1 rep in service excellence among all Verizon retail employees within all 12 Western United States, so I’m familiar with business, customer service, and the way you treat people in general. I recently graduated with a Pre-Medical B.S. in Cell and Molecular Biology, and I’m in the middle of medical school interviews, with my 5th med school interview scheduled in a few days on March 9. Currently I’m the Volunteer Coordinator at San Francisco General Hospital’s Emergency Department and Level 1 Trauma Center, where I work along side ER doctors and nurses with direct patient interactions in the most violent and gruesome Bay Area stat traumas, and I manage the ED training staff for the premedical student volunteers.
I don’t take drugs or drink alcohol. I have paid off all my credit cards and student loans, and I’ve paid my rent for the next year. I’m a straight-forward guy, and I naturally interact with people with honesty and integrity, even when they don’t deserve it. In my free time I work out (6x/week), waste time on my Mazda, and ignore my ex-girlfriends.
I’m not just some kid with an RX-7, which, by the way, I bought and funded with my own money as well.
.......
What bites me is that I could have rebuilt my engine myself. I don’t like paying someone to do something I can do myself. The issue is that I don’t have a garage. I’ve done almost all my car’s work in front (or up the street) of my apartment, but a rebuild isn’t exactly something you can do with the car parked on the street with traffic going by.
I met Ben Blankenhorn (forum name “Karack”) in Jan 2011 at a tuning session in NorCal. We had a few short random rotary-related conversations, and for the most part on the forum, people seem to blindly trust him as well. So I begrudgingly decided to have Ben perform the rebuild at his shop in Las Vegas, Rotary Evolution. I figured I could trust him to be almost as meticulous as myself on rebuilding my engine.
Unfortunately, this turned out to be one of the worst experiences on many levels, as you will see in the following detailed chronology of events.
Over the last few weeks, I’ve been working my FD in the street, including cleaning up the interior and exterior and recently fixing 7 vacuum leaks under the hood, despite the recent freezing weather and rain and having to work outside. Honestly I had to work on my car myself - something I should have done in the first place - and take some time to get my mind off how this person conducted himself and the way he operates his “business.”
I’m not one to get angry or lose my temper, and I’ve always communicated with Ben in a polite and professional manner, even though Ben has been consistently dishonest, quite disrespectful and very unprofessional to say the least. People should not unknowingly do business with someone like this or have to go through anything like the drama I had to deal with, which is bad enough in itself. But on top of all the absurdity, taking money from a customer without ever working on their car is not acceptable, and such an act should not go on with impunity.
That is the reason for this thread.
******* I think it’s important for people to know what happened and to share my experience regarding what I went through only to be given the runaround, constant excuses, and getting ripped off in the end for NO WORK EVER DONE for the entire time my FD was at Ben’s shop. *******
03-07-12, 01:18 AM
#2
Sensing what would prove to be the worst, in mid-December 2011, I began documenting in detail the events regarding this whole fiasco.
That said, here are the FACTS:
Nov 14, 2011:
PM’d Ben regarding a rebuild. Ben PM’d me saying that he is busy with other cars at the time, and that he’ll need more time to finish those cars. Ben and I agreed that he will be able to begin work on my car on or close to Dec 1. I advised Ben that I will drive my car to his shop in Las Vegas on Dec 1, and he said that’s good because he’ll be able to start working on it at that time. He said it will take him a month to rebuild the 13B.
Nov 30:
Washed the car and loaded some extra parts - spare tire, Xcessive sump, new-in-box ACT flywheel, and a few other small pieces - in preparation for the long drive to Ben’s shop in Las Vegas.
Dec 1:
Drove to Ben’s shop in Las Vegas, and was completely physically exhausted. Upon arriving at the shop, there were only two other RX-7s present (Remember this fact; It will be important later.) - a white FC belonging to Cosmo_TT, and a red FC belonging to Ben’s girlfriend. These were the ONLY two cars in the shop when I dropped of my FD.
Having been royally screwed by Rick’s Rotary Performance in Pleasanton, CA ($128 to swap a fuel pump, motor mounts with no bolts, shotty welding, paint overspray, unauthorized work performed, etc.) for my last rebuild (which Ben was already aware of), I reviewed my rebuild requests with Ben, and everything seemed to be fine. There were two “major” additions to the work - install 10 bushings and a 929 MC. However Ben then stated that it will now take around the end of January 2012 to finish the work on the car.
This was a surprise; I waited two weeks for Ben to be ready; When I arrived at Ben’s shop, Cosmo’s car was nowhere even near completion, and the one month time frame had suddenly become two months. I had just driven 600 miles to get to Ben’s shop and had a flight back home in a couple hours. This was a classic bait-and-switch routine, and I should have taken this as a sign and just driven back home....
Per his website, Ben asks for a $500 deposit to begin work. In good faith - and as a good customer - I gave Ben $2000 cash as an incentive to completing the work within a reasonable timeframe, and preferably before his ever-increasing time frame estimates. He then printed for me a receipt, which shows my $2000 deposit given. Ben drove me to the Las Vegas airport, and I flew back to San Francisco.
Between Dec 1, 2011 and Jan 11, 2012:
In the weeks following my cars drop-off, I had been noticing on rx7club.com that Ben had been spending a lot of time on the forums discussing other topics, such as his SS OMP lines, coolant seals, or replying to really random newbie posts, instead of working on Cosmo’s car, or my car. I knew that Ben has always been slow to complete projects, but in reviewing Cosmo’s build thread (https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/cosmotts-full-bridge-port-13bt-build-thread-979828/), I began realizing that, at his present rate, Ben is not going to finish my car, and I was pretty sure based on his posts that he hadn’t even gotten started. I wanted my car back.
Jan 11, 2012:
I called Ben stating that I am coming to pick up my car the following day, which would be Jan 12. I also advised that I would like a refund of my $2000 deposit that I had given to him on Dec 1. He stated that he only has $1000 available to refund to me, and that ***he will refund the remaining $1000 in 3 weeks.***
Furthermore ***Ben stated that he “had to use” some of *my deposit* to finish work on other cars in his shop.***
What?!
[Re-read above that when I dropped the car off on Dec 2. There were only 2 other cars there - Cosmo’s and Ben’s gf’s. First off, it’s immoral and a dishonest business practice to use my deposit to pay for other people’s cars instead of asking *them* to pay for their cars. (Why am I paying Ben to work on other customers’ cars?) Second, as there were only two cars at the shop when I dropped mine off, whose “other cars” was Ben referring to? Either 1) there were no other cars, 2) the “cars” would be just Cosmo_TT’s FC, or 3) cars that arrived at Ben’s shop *after* I dropped off my FD. In any case, this is not the appropriate way to spend a customer’s money.]
Jan 12:
I flew out to Las Vegas to Ben’s shop to find that there was another black FC (I later discovered this belongs to JUANMA) that Ben was working on, while my FD was sitting in the shop with NO WORK DONE to it, covered in a thick layer of dust. In fact my car had been sitting in the same spot and ignored for so long that I actually had to point out to Ben that my right rear tire had gone flat. Juan was there in the shop as well, and I learned that Ben had been working on Juan’s car and even took Juan’s car to dyno tuning during the time when Ben should have been working on my car.
So Ben worked on JUANMA’s car even though my car and my $2000 was there first. And Ben had told me to go ahead and bring my car into the shop even though Cosmo_TT’s car wasn’t even close to being done yet, and Cosmo_TT had been waiting for.... Anyone want to guess how long...??? I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I was finally disillusioned and completely disgusted.
But hold on, it gets worse....
I took my car key and received $1000 cash of my $2000 deposit back. Ben again told me that he needs an additional 3 weeks to finish refunding the remaining $1000 of my deposit. Ben was in the middle of working on JUANMA’s car, which had to be moved so I could pull my car out the garage. About half an hour later, Ben then said he’d finish refunding the remaining $1000 in “3 to 4 weeks.” Yet again, the time frames were constantly increasing.
That evening I drove my car over 9 hours back to San Francisco. Total spent would be over $500 in gas and flights relating to this failed rebuild trip. At this point I am out two days of my life and over $1500, plus put an additional completely unnecessary 1200 miles on the RX-7. The only thing that barely kept me awake during the exhausting drive was just absolute “amazement” at the whole situation. This project started back on Nov 14, here I was driving back the second half of a 1200-mile road trip, and the best I could hope for would be a loss of several hundreds of dollars.
That said, here are the FACTS:
Nov 14, 2011:
PM’d Ben regarding a rebuild. Ben PM’d me saying that he is busy with other cars at the time, and that he’ll need more time to finish those cars. Ben and I agreed that he will be able to begin work on my car on or close to Dec 1. I advised Ben that I will drive my car to his shop in Las Vegas on Dec 1, and he said that’s good because he’ll be able to start working on it at that time. He said it will take him a month to rebuild the 13B.
Nov 30:
Washed the car and loaded some extra parts - spare tire, Xcessive sump, new-in-box ACT flywheel, and a few other small pieces - in preparation for the long drive to Ben’s shop in Las Vegas.
Dec 1:
Drove to Ben’s shop in Las Vegas, and was completely physically exhausted. Upon arriving at the shop, there were only two other RX-7s present (Remember this fact; It will be important later.) - a white FC belonging to Cosmo_TT, and a red FC belonging to Ben’s girlfriend. These were the ONLY two cars in the shop when I dropped of my FD.
Having been royally screwed by Rick’s Rotary Performance in Pleasanton, CA ($128 to swap a fuel pump, motor mounts with no bolts, shotty welding, paint overspray, unauthorized work performed, etc.) for my last rebuild (which Ben was already aware of), I reviewed my rebuild requests with Ben, and everything seemed to be fine. There were two “major” additions to the work - install 10 bushings and a 929 MC. However Ben then stated that it will now take around the end of January 2012 to finish the work on the car.
This was a surprise; I waited two weeks for Ben to be ready; When I arrived at Ben’s shop, Cosmo’s car was nowhere even near completion, and the one month time frame had suddenly become two months. I had just driven 600 miles to get to Ben’s shop and had a flight back home in a couple hours. This was a classic bait-and-switch routine, and I should have taken this as a sign and just driven back home....
Per his website, Ben asks for a $500 deposit to begin work. In good faith - and as a good customer - I gave Ben $2000 cash as an incentive to completing the work within a reasonable timeframe, and preferably before his ever-increasing time frame estimates. He then printed for me a receipt, which shows my $2000 deposit given. Ben drove me to the Las Vegas airport, and I flew back to San Francisco.
Between Dec 1, 2011 and Jan 11, 2012:
In the weeks following my cars drop-off, I had been noticing on rx7club.com that Ben had been spending a lot of time on the forums discussing other topics, such as his SS OMP lines, coolant seals, or replying to really random newbie posts, instead of working on Cosmo’s car, or my car. I knew that Ben has always been slow to complete projects, but in reviewing Cosmo’s build thread (https://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/cosmotts-full-bridge-port-13bt-build-thread-979828/), I began realizing that, at his present rate, Ben is not going to finish my car, and I was pretty sure based on his posts that he hadn’t even gotten started. I wanted my car back.
Jan 11, 2012:
I called Ben stating that I am coming to pick up my car the following day, which would be Jan 12. I also advised that I would like a refund of my $2000 deposit that I had given to him on Dec 1. He stated that he only has $1000 available to refund to me, and that ***he will refund the remaining $1000 in 3 weeks.***
Furthermore ***Ben stated that he “had to use” some of *my deposit* to finish work on other cars in his shop.***
What?!
[Re-read above that when I dropped the car off on Dec 2. There were only 2 other cars there - Cosmo’s and Ben’s gf’s. First off, it’s immoral and a dishonest business practice to use my deposit to pay for other people’s cars instead of asking *them* to pay for their cars. (Why am I paying Ben to work on other customers’ cars?) Second, as there were only two cars at the shop when I dropped mine off, whose “other cars” was Ben referring to? Either 1) there were no other cars, 2) the “cars” would be just Cosmo_TT’s FC, or 3) cars that arrived at Ben’s shop *after* I dropped off my FD. In any case, this is not the appropriate way to spend a customer’s money.]
Jan 12:
I flew out to Las Vegas to Ben’s shop to find that there was another black FC (I later discovered this belongs to JUANMA) that Ben was working on, while my FD was sitting in the shop with NO WORK DONE to it, covered in a thick layer of dust. In fact my car had been sitting in the same spot and ignored for so long that I actually had to point out to Ben that my right rear tire had gone flat. Juan was there in the shop as well, and I learned that Ben had been working on Juan’s car and even took Juan’s car to dyno tuning during the time when Ben should have been working on my car.
So Ben worked on JUANMA’s car even though my car and my $2000 was there first. And Ben had told me to go ahead and bring my car into the shop even though Cosmo_TT’s car wasn’t even close to being done yet, and Cosmo_TT had been waiting for.... Anyone want to guess how long...??? I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. I was finally disillusioned and completely disgusted.
But hold on, it gets worse....
I took my car key and received $1000 cash of my $2000 deposit back. Ben again told me that he needs an additional 3 weeks to finish refunding the remaining $1000 of my deposit. Ben was in the middle of working on JUANMA’s car, which had to be moved so I could pull my car out the garage. About half an hour later, Ben then said he’d finish refunding the remaining $1000 in “3 to 4 weeks.” Yet again, the time frames were constantly increasing.
That evening I drove my car over 9 hours back to San Francisco. Total spent would be over $500 in gas and flights relating to this failed rebuild trip. At this point I am out two days of my life and over $1500, plus put an additional completely unnecessary 1200 miles on the RX-7. The only thing that barely kept me awake during the exhausting drive was just absolute “amazement” at the whole situation. This project started back on Nov 14, here I was driving back the second half of a 1200-mile road trip, and the best I could hope for would be a loss of several hundreds of dollars.
03-07-12, 01:32 AM
#3
Jan 30 11:47AM
I called Ben asking how close he is to being able to refund my remaining $1000. He stated “I can’t pull money out my ***.” (What would be going on in your head if you were me, and Ben said that to you, considering everything he’s already put you through?) He then added that he “spent some of the money on parts for the rebuild” and that he is waiting on refunds from returning parts.
[Note well that this is CONTRARY to what Ben stated on Jan 11, which was that he spent my deposit on other people’s cars. Furthermore, when I picked up my car on Jan 12, Ben made no indication whatsoever that ANY rebuild parts had ever even been purchased for my rebuild. In fact Ben kept stressing that he’s been busy working on Cosmo_TT’s FC and JUANMA’s black FC, the latter of which, by the time I left Ben’s shop, was in full running order. Remember, MY FD and my $2000 cash was in Ben’s hands before JUANMA’s car was even in the shop, and Ben decided it appropriate to work on JUANMA’s car instead and do NO WORK AT ALL on mine.]
Ever politely, I emphasized to Ben that I’m not in a financial situation where I can just have $1000 just “out there” somewhere. I advise him that I will call him again in one week on Feb 6.
Feb 6
Called Ben as I said I would in our previous conversation asking again when will I receive my deposit refund. He stated that he can send me $380, and “that’s all the money I have.” He then stated that he will refund the remaining $620 “in the next couple of days.” I received $380 via paypal a few minutes later. This was a small consolation because at this point Ben still owes me $620 and the length of time I’ve been dealing with him and his stories.
Feb 11
I discover https://www.rx7club.com/west-rx-7-forum-193/another-shop-gone-984066/page2/. In post #44 Ben states that he has purchased “our 3rd FC,” back on Jan 29.
So...
After claiming all over the rx7club forum - and stating to me - that he is broke and has no money, and at that time still owed me $1000, instead of refunding to me my deposit, which I have been patiently and politely waiting for, Ben instead buys himself another car. Then when I speak to Ben on Feb 6, he tells me he’s broke and still isn’t able to fully refund me yet. In the same thread (post #17 on January 18), he even said, for all the West Forum to read, that “after this week I will have 0 retirement left.” Then he buys another RX-7 just 11 days later!? I am pissed.
[This guy has owed me my $1000 remaining from deposit for weeks. I have constantly had to get in contact with him and ask for my deposit back, while he keeps coming up with new excuses relating to time, money, customers, claiming financial hardship and trying to place a guilt trip on me for actually wanting my deposit refunded for NO WORK DONE during the span of 6 weeks my car sat in his shop.
On the forum, regarding work, notice how Ben states that he’s too busy with too many customers to get work done on time, while also stating that business is slow or that it’s a niche market, going back and forth between two completely opposite statements whenever it suits his point.]
Feb 14
Still waiting for the remainder of my refund, which Ben said he’d have refunded to me by last week, according to his latest time frame extension. Called Ben at 10:33AM. His voicemail box is full. I selected the automated option to send him my callback number, even though my number will appear as a missed call on his call log. I send him the following PM:
Good Morning Ben,
I'm hoping business is getting better. I just called you regarding the remaining $620 of my deposit, and your voicemail box is full. Please return my call, or preferably paypal the remaining $620 to rx7doctor@gmail.com.
~Josh
Feb 15
I notice Ben is posting again on rx7club.com. Yet Ben never returned my call from yesterday, and he never responded to my PM either. I checked paypal, and he still hasn’t refunded the rest of my deposit.
Feb 20
Called Ben again. It has been 6 days since I called him and PM’d him, and he never called back or PM’d back, nor has he refunded the remaining amount of my deposit. The call again went to a voicemail recording stating that Ben is not available and that his voicemailbox is full. I sent him another PM, and this time, I was somewhat more direct:
Hello Ben,
At this point, I feel the need to level with you.
You have owed a refund on my deposit for several weeks now. Each time I have spoken with you, you have a brand new excuse not to refund my deposit. I have to regularly call you and PM you, and yet you always make it seem like I'm causing a you a problem. It cost me $520 in gas and plane tickets traveling to and from your shop, a complete waste of money - and about 24 hours of exhausting travel time - considering that during the 6 weeks my car sat in your shop, you did no work on it at all, while I went without my car. I have nothing to do with whatever financial issues you say you are having.
Ben, I don't appreciate your ignoring my phone calls and PMs, as this is no way to "do business," specifically by taking my deposit and using it to buy yourself another RX-7, which you posted on the forum back on Jan 29.
I've made more than enough effort to be cool about this, Ben. I suggest you refund me the $620 remaining of my deposit immediately - with no more excuses - so we can both put this behind us. Paypal to rx7doctor@gmail.com.
~Josh
Feb 21
I receive $500 via paypal. This still isn’t the full amount of my deposit.
Ben PM’d me stating that he’s keeping $120 in “storage fees.” This is again going back against his word, specifically in stating several times that he would refund my deposit. Of course, Ben consistently came up with excuses for not having the money, despite the fact that he actually bought another RX-7 during this exact time frame, and finally he tells me he changed his mind and decided to keep some of my deposit.
For the few who aren’t aware, “storage fees” are assessed against a customer when the work done on a car is complete, and the customer does not pick up the car within a reasonable timeframe, which is usually 48 hours after the work is complete. In the 6 weeks my FD sat in his shop, Ben never worked on my car. I called Ben on January 11 stating that I am coming to pick up my car, and I was in his shop on January 12 to take back my car. Yet Ben tells me he is charging me $120 “as storage fees for the total of 4 days,” even though he never did any work at all on my car during the 43 total days my FD sat at his shop collecting dust and sitting on a flat tire. “The total of 4 days” is a completely random figure, as no work was ever done on ANY day.
[It is worthy to note that during the total of 43 days during which Ben didn’t do any work on my car, he took it upon himself to take my new-in-box ACT pro-lite flywheel - which I was planning on selling - out of its shrink-wrap and box. Guess it’s not new-in-box anymore, is it? Thanks a lot, Ben.]
At that point I had already become used to the consistent unprovable excuses, direct lies, and unfulfilled promises by Ben.
Summary:
My total investment and losses:
$550 in gas, plane tickets, taxi
$120 stolen by Ben (Just for clarification: Over 6 weeks in his shop, plus a $2000 CASH deposit provided up front, a total 13 weeks of drama, and BEN DID NO WORK AT ALL on my rebuild, yet decided to keep $120.)
= $670 cash burned
Plus:
2 days of exhausting driving to and from his shop between San Francisco and Las Vegas
1200 unnecessary miles on my FD
So after everything I went through, the driving out to his shop and the flights to and from Vegas, the drama and the waiting games, ever-changing excuses, unfulfilled promises, disappearing acts, and outright lies, Ben has to pull one final screw job at the end. Well played, knowing that $120 isn’t enough for me to go through the hassle of getting a lawyer.
No excuses here, no contradicting stories, guilt trips, or blaming the season or the economy.
These are the FACTS.
For anyone blindly recommending Ben Blankenhorn (aka “Karack”), without ever actually having him work on your car, I suggest holding your praise for this guy. I would have never imagined the complete fiasco and drama circus that resulted from trusting him.
I called Ben asking how close he is to being able to refund my remaining $1000. He stated “I can’t pull money out my ***.” (What would be going on in your head if you were me, and Ben said that to you, considering everything he’s already put you through?) He then added that he “spent some of the money on parts for the rebuild” and that he is waiting on refunds from returning parts.
[Note well that this is CONTRARY to what Ben stated on Jan 11, which was that he spent my deposit on other people’s cars. Furthermore, when I picked up my car on Jan 12, Ben made no indication whatsoever that ANY rebuild parts had ever even been purchased for my rebuild. In fact Ben kept stressing that he’s been busy working on Cosmo_TT’s FC and JUANMA’s black FC, the latter of which, by the time I left Ben’s shop, was in full running order. Remember, MY FD and my $2000 cash was in Ben’s hands before JUANMA’s car was even in the shop, and Ben decided it appropriate to work on JUANMA’s car instead and do NO WORK AT ALL on mine.]
Ever politely, I emphasized to Ben that I’m not in a financial situation where I can just have $1000 just “out there” somewhere. I advise him that I will call him again in one week on Feb 6.
Feb 6
Called Ben as I said I would in our previous conversation asking again when will I receive my deposit refund. He stated that he can send me $380, and “that’s all the money I have.” He then stated that he will refund the remaining $620 “in the next couple of days.” I received $380 via paypal a few minutes later. This was a small consolation because at this point Ben still owes me $620 and the length of time I’ve been dealing with him and his stories.
Feb 11
I discover https://www.rx7club.com/west-rx-7-forum-193/another-shop-gone-984066/page2/. In post #44 Ben states that he has purchased “our 3rd FC,” back on Jan 29.
So...
After claiming all over the rx7club forum - and stating to me - that he is broke and has no money, and at that time still owed me $1000, instead of refunding to me my deposit, which I have been patiently and politely waiting for, Ben instead buys himself another car. Then when I speak to Ben on Feb 6, he tells me he’s broke and still isn’t able to fully refund me yet. In the same thread (post #17 on January 18), he even said, for all the West Forum to read, that “after this week I will have 0 retirement left.” Then he buys another RX-7 just 11 days later!? I am pissed.
[This guy has owed me my $1000 remaining from deposit for weeks. I have constantly had to get in contact with him and ask for my deposit back, while he keeps coming up with new excuses relating to time, money, customers, claiming financial hardship and trying to place a guilt trip on me for actually wanting my deposit refunded for NO WORK DONE during the span of 6 weeks my car sat in his shop.
On the forum, regarding work, notice how Ben states that he’s too busy with too many customers to get work done on time, while also stating that business is slow or that it’s a niche market, going back and forth between two completely opposite statements whenever it suits his point.]
Feb 14
Still waiting for the remainder of my refund, which Ben said he’d have refunded to me by last week, according to his latest time frame extension. Called Ben at 10:33AM. His voicemail box is full. I selected the automated option to send him my callback number, even though my number will appear as a missed call on his call log. I send him the following PM:
Good Morning Ben,
I'm hoping business is getting better. I just called you regarding the remaining $620 of my deposit, and your voicemail box is full. Please return my call, or preferably paypal the remaining $620 to rx7doctor@gmail.com.
~Josh
Feb 15
I notice Ben is posting again on rx7club.com. Yet Ben never returned my call from yesterday, and he never responded to my PM either. I checked paypal, and he still hasn’t refunded the rest of my deposit.
Feb 20
Called Ben again. It has been 6 days since I called him and PM’d him, and he never called back or PM’d back, nor has he refunded the remaining amount of my deposit. The call again went to a voicemail recording stating that Ben is not available and that his voicemailbox is full. I sent him another PM, and this time, I was somewhat more direct:
Hello Ben,
At this point, I feel the need to level with you.
You have owed a refund on my deposit for several weeks now. Each time I have spoken with you, you have a brand new excuse not to refund my deposit. I have to regularly call you and PM you, and yet you always make it seem like I'm causing a you a problem. It cost me $520 in gas and plane tickets traveling to and from your shop, a complete waste of money - and about 24 hours of exhausting travel time - considering that during the 6 weeks my car sat in your shop, you did no work on it at all, while I went without my car. I have nothing to do with whatever financial issues you say you are having.
Ben, I don't appreciate your ignoring my phone calls and PMs, as this is no way to "do business," specifically by taking my deposit and using it to buy yourself another RX-7, which you posted on the forum back on Jan 29.
I've made more than enough effort to be cool about this, Ben. I suggest you refund me the $620 remaining of my deposit immediately - with no more excuses - so we can both put this behind us. Paypal to rx7doctor@gmail.com.
~Josh
Feb 21
I receive $500 via paypal. This still isn’t the full amount of my deposit.
Ben PM’d me stating that he’s keeping $120 in “storage fees.” This is again going back against his word, specifically in stating several times that he would refund my deposit. Of course, Ben consistently came up with excuses for not having the money, despite the fact that he actually bought another RX-7 during this exact time frame, and finally he tells me he changed his mind and decided to keep some of my deposit.
For the few who aren’t aware, “storage fees” are assessed against a customer when the work done on a car is complete, and the customer does not pick up the car within a reasonable timeframe, which is usually 48 hours after the work is complete. In the 6 weeks my FD sat in his shop, Ben never worked on my car. I called Ben on January 11 stating that I am coming to pick up my car, and I was in his shop on January 12 to take back my car. Yet Ben tells me he is charging me $120 “as storage fees for the total of 4 days,” even though he never did any work at all on my car during the 43 total days my FD sat at his shop collecting dust and sitting on a flat tire. “The total of 4 days” is a completely random figure, as no work was ever done on ANY day.
[It is worthy to note that during the total of 43 days during which Ben didn’t do any work on my car, he took it upon himself to take my new-in-box ACT pro-lite flywheel - which I was planning on selling - out of its shrink-wrap and box. Guess it’s not new-in-box anymore, is it? Thanks a lot, Ben.]
At that point I had already become used to the consistent unprovable excuses, direct lies, and unfulfilled promises by Ben.
Summary:
My total investment and losses:
$550 in gas, plane tickets, taxi
$120 stolen by Ben (Just for clarification: Over 6 weeks in his shop, plus a $2000 CASH deposit provided up front, a total 13 weeks of drama, and BEN DID NO WORK AT ALL on my rebuild, yet decided to keep $120.)
= $670 cash burned
Plus:
2 days of exhausting driving to and from his shop between San Francisco and Las Vegas
1200 unnecessary miles on my FD
So after everything I went through, the driving out to his shop and the flights to and from Vegas, the drama and the waiting games, ever-changing excuses, unfulfilled promises, disappearing acts, and outright lies, Ben has to pull one final screw job at the end. Well played, knowing that $120 isn’t enough for me to go through the hassle of getting a lawyer.
No excuses here, no contradicting stories, guilt trips, or blaming the season or the economy.
These are the FACTS.
For anyone blindly recommending Ben Blankenhorn (aka “Karack”), without ever actually having him work on your car, I suggest holding your praise for this guy. I would have never imagined the complete fiasco and drama circus that resulted from trusting him.
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03-07-12, 09:54 AM
#11
hopefully the work he HAS done for people lives up the hype he was posting in this thread where he talks badly about a previous vendor here https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=kevin
03-07-12, 10:43 AM
#13
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I have never dealt with Ben in person, but he has answered dozens of questions I have had via PM about my own rebuild without asking for anything in exchange. Based on my conversations with him and also his general reputation on the forum, I would find it very hard to believe that the actual situation that took place is as one-sided as you make it out to be. I am also very curious to hear Ben's response.
03-07-12, 11:27 AM
#14
Josy, I am sorry to hear this whole thing had happened to you. I am not here to defense Ben but I believe that economy hit him hard and you're just there at the wrong time.
Personally me and a couple of friends had dealt with Ben before. All our engines came back on-time and he's responded to calls, emails and questions very promptly and professionally.
However, I do believe that in this situation. He's at fault since knowing that IF you CANNOT finish a customer's car at a given time frame, you should not even accept any payment as that's how I would treat my customers.
However, I do hope that you can have this situation resolved. Also I know he has been active selling his OMP lines, maybe he's trying to get some money back to repay you? I really dont know as I cannot speak for him myself.
Best of luck in this situation. BTW, I personally fixes RX7s but I do not do rebuilds and my shop is in Sausalito.
-AzEKnightz
Personally me and a couple of friends had dealt with Ben before. All our engines came back on-time and he's responded to calls, emails and questions very promptly and professionally.
However, I do believe that in this situation. He's at fault since knowing that IF you CANNOT finish a customer's car at a given time frame, you should not even accept any payment as that's how I would treat my customers.
However, I do hope that you can have this situation resolved. Also I know he has been active selling his OMP lines, maybe he's trying to get some money back to repay you? I really dont know as I cannot speak for him myself.
Best of luck in this situation. BTW, I personally fixes RX7s but I do not do rebuilds and my shop is in Sausalito.
-AzEKnightz
03-07-12, 02:51 PM
#16
when did i ever state i had to use your money to work on other cars in the shop? i may have mentioned it was partially to pay rent to actually have a shop to keep the car in and work on.
you had a specialty build of which the money was spent towards purchasing parts for the build, of which i offered to give you the parts i ordered for YOUR car which is where the deposit went, of which you denied and wanted cash. i said it would take some time to finish jobs and get you your cash deposit back while i sit on the parts until i can sell them in a future build for another customer.
yes, the timing was rather bad being at the end of winter when the rotary builds are at their slowest coming into the shop. working on a build that i wasn't going to make much profit from on Cosmo TT's car which was and is an ongoing lengthy process.
i do not give promised timeframes anymore, i do try to make the dates i give but being the only person doing it all, any issues push ALL jobs back. selling the parts, closing the shop and everything else was to pay YOU your deposit out of pocket, since i am still sitting here on a $375 set of apex seals and other misc parts for YOUR particular build which i now own because i basically paid for them even though i have no personal use for them. most shops charge a restocking fee for returned specialty parts.
in the end you never pressed me for answers or found the timeframe to be unacceptable, you just gave a personal sob story that you had to sell the car for personal reasons. considering you're buying parts i suppose that was an untruth. so of the remaining deposit i refunded all but $120 to charge for storage fees to keep the car in the shop, as space isn't free and i have to pay for it.
yes i do apologize for it taking longer than anticipated. also keep in mind what in this rotary market usually is quick as there are few builders out there and just as few who make specialty parts? at the end of the day i work 7 days a week, 8+ hours a day to keep the shop open and make little profit off the work i do, usually giving away extras to make the timeframes worthwhile for my customers even at my expense. this in the end makes jobs take longer to get done.
i thought long and hard about even charging you the "storage fee" for the car sitting in the shop and came to the conclusion that i'm not going to alternately let people walk on me as you had shown no remorse for putting me in the position you put me into. you can assume that even though no work was done that you can't be charged, which would be incorrect as you signed the estimate for repairs and the repairs were still intended to be completed. just as i was going to get started you called and cancelled the job.
i spent many hours going over details of the build with you, i received and opened shipments and inspected parts to be sure everything was in good condition and not damaged during shipping and laid everything out in anticipation of the work. i moved the car in and out of the shop so it would not be in the way or get damaged while working on Cosmo's car and i even checked your leaky tire plug before making your trip home so that you had an idea if the car would make it.
conversely i spend alot of time on the phone answering questions from customers and even non customers alike. if you want to call me out on spending time on the forum, consider that my break time from working yet still working. i get about 1-2 hours a day of free time to relax outside of all of this, sometimes i even may take a vacation.
yes, i admit i can be slow to do jobs and that is partially due to the amount of time i spend doing each part of a job making sure that it is done properly and well.
unfortunately i would also not recommend you to any other shop as a customer because you also are not the person i originally thought you were, but in my gut i already knew that after you bashing on Ricks Rotary even though you accepted his terms.
in all honesty i don't even know why i would ever have to defend myself over something like this, why do you think i even considered closing in the first place... one of the only things that has kept me going with minimal profits has been appreciation.
you had a specialty build of which the money was spent towards purchasing parts for the build, of which i offered to give you the parts i ordered for YOUR car which is where the deposit went, of which you denied and wanted cash. i said it would take some time to finish jobs and get you your cash deposit back while i sit on the parts until i can sell them in a future build for another customer.
yes, the timing was rather bad being at the end of winter when the rotary builds are at their slowest coming into the shop. working on a build that i wasn't going to make much profit from on Cosmo TT's car which was and is an ongoing lengthy process.
i do not give promised timeframes anymore, i do try to make the dates i give but being the only person doing it all, any issues push ALL jobs back. selling the parts, closing the shop and everything else was to pay YOU your deposit out of pocket, since i am still sitting here on a $375 set of apex seals and other misc parts for YOUR particular build which i now own because i basically paid for them even though i have no personal use for them. most shops charge a restocking fee for returned specialty parts.
in the end you never pressed me for answers or found the timeframe to be unacceptable, you just gave a personal sob story that you had to sell the car for personal reasons. considering you're buying parts i suppose that was an untruth. so of the remaining deposit i refunded all but $120 to charge for storage fees to keep the car in the shop, as space isn't free and i have to pay for it.
yes i do apologize for it taking longer than anticipated. also keep in mind what in this rotary market usually is quick as there are few builders out there and just as few who make specialty parts? at the end of the day i work 7 days a week, 8+ hours a day to keep the shop open and make little profit off the work i do, usually giving away extras to make the timeframes worthwhile for my customers even at my expense. this in the end makes jobs take longer to get done.
i thought long and hard about even charging you the "storage fee" for the car sitting in the shop and came to the conclusion that i'm not going to alternately let people walk on me as you had shown no remorse for putting me in the position you put me into. you can assume that even though no work was done that you can't be charged, which would be incorrect as you signed the estimate for repairs and the repairs were still intended to be completed. just as i was going to get started you called and cancelled the job.
i spent many hours going over details of the build with you, i received and opened shipments and inspected parts to be sure everything was in good condition and not damaged during shipping and laid everything out in anticipation of the work. i moved the car in and out of the shop so it would not be in the way or get damaged while working on Cosmo's car and i even checked your leaky tire plug before making your trip home so that you had an idea if the car would make it.
conversely i spend alot of time on the phone answering questions from customers and even non customers alike. if you want to call me out on spending time on the forum, consider that my break time from working yet still working. i get about 1-2 hours a day of free time to relax outside of all of this, sometimes i even may take a vacation.
yes, i admit i can be slow to do jobs and that is partially due to the amount of time i spend doing each part of a job making sure that it is done properly and well.
unfortunately i would also not recommend you to any other shop as a customer because you also are not the person i originally thought you were, but in my gut i already knew that after you bashing on Ricks Rotary even though you accepted his terms.
in all honesty i don't even know why i would ever have to defend myself over something like this, why do you think i even considered closing in the first place... one of the only things that has kept me going with minimal profits has been appreciation.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 03:07 PM.
03-07-12, 03:41 PM
#17
and another sob tidbit since we're feeling sorry for each other, i worked xmas eve, xmas day and new years day.
Juan came to me begging to do a few days worth of work to his car and tune it because he had orders to move to new jersey so the car had to be completed and tuned in the 2 weeks before he was scheduled to leave. i do other work in interim because some jobs take upwards of 2 months to complete and bills still need to be paid before getting paid for bigger jobs. aside from smaller jobs between the large ones i still have to do maintenance and other work on local customer's cars, some of them need their cars for daily purposes.
i have to get cars into the shop before they are scheduled to be worked on, that is how the community is and is beyond my control. if i wait until the last minute then i wind up with flaking customers and no jobs to get started on. remember, i am in the middle of the desert and most people have to ship cars to me, i used to pick up and deliver cars for cost but i cancelled that program because the truck i used was taking a beating and i cannot afford to finance a new one for the sole purpose of making everyone else's lives but my own easier, let alone the fact my credit is pure crap losing the house to keep working within this community.
i am at least grateful that the FC vert i bought i made a profit on to help me through all this BS, while at the same time helping out an ex-customer who happened to also be in a severe hardship who needed money right then there and at that moment who was literally crying on my shoulder. i'm sorry my decision to help him out hurt you in any way shape or form in any of this. i told you all of this but you seemed to not care one bit, only worried about your money which i explained above was as expected spent to order parts that i STILL have.
if anyone has issue with any of this, i plead you to not come to me for work. i simply cannot deal with issues like this one, if you aren't patient on a large project please find someone else. i had hoped you might see that there is more people out there than yourself and see things from different perspectives but in my 36 years i still seem to be gullible in that respect.
and keep in mind kids, there is more than one side to a coin.
Juan came to me begging to do a few days worth of work to his car and tune it because he had orders to move to new jersey so the car had to be completed and tuned in the 2 weeks before he was scheduled to leave. i do other work in interim because some jobs take upwards of 2 months to complete and bills still need to be paid before getting paid for bigger jobs. aside from smaller jobs between the large ones i still have to do maintenance and other work on local customer's cars, some of them need their cars for daily purposes.
i have to get cars into the shop before they are scheduled to be worked on, that is how the community is and is beyond my control. if i wait until the last minute then i wind up with flaking customers and no jobs to get started on. remember, i am in the middle of the desert and most people have to ship cars to me, i used to pick up and deliver cars for cost but i cancelled that program because the truck i used was taking a beating and i cannot afford to finance a new one for the sole purpose of making everyone else's lives but my own easier, let alone the fact my credit is pure crap losing the house to keep working within this community.
i am at least grateful that the FC vert i bought i made a profit on to help me through all this BS, while at the same time helping out an ex-customer who happened to also be in a severe hardship who needed money right then there and at that moment who was literally crying on my shoulder. i'm sorry my decision to help him out hurt you in any way shape or form in any of this. i told you all of this but you seemed to not care one bit, only worried about your money which i explained above was as expected spent to order parts that i STILL have.
if anyone has issue with any of this, i plead you to not come to me for work. i simply cannot deal with issues like this one, if you aren't patient on a large project please find someone else. i had hoped you might see that there is more people out there than yourself and see things from different perspectives but in my 36 years i still seem to be gullible in that respect.
and keep in mind kids, there is more than one side to a coin.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 04:11 PM.
03-07-12, 04:18 PM
#18
on a side note, as far as i know i am the only rotary shop that has been open for 10+ years with only one worker. because i'm devoted, not a "scammer".
if you percieve any figure i give as a promise, i assure you they are not. i do not promise any timeframes any longer but they are dates that i hope to accomplish a job expecting issues to arise, even though sometimes even larger issues arise.
lawyers are not allowed in small claims court, but i will not deny knowing that it wasn't in your best interest to spend the time, money and effort to come and serve me in a local case to which you would lose anyways. even though i never even wanted to charge you but i also never appreciate being unappreciated. congratulations on the negative publicity though, you may have won that $120 back there.
thank you all for your patronage, except Josh who was simply a tennant it appears. (the only cancelee in that 10+ year timeframe, also the largest single burner of my time of which i lost more in profits than that generous figure of $120 i charged) your own indecisiveness and lack of patience is what really cost you the figures you threw out, as if i try to choose out of state customers in an effort to rip them off.
if you percieve any figure i give as a promise, i assure you they are not. i do not promise any timeframes any longer but they are dates that i hope to accomplish a job expecting issues to arise, even though sometimes even larger issues arise.
lawyers are not allowed in small claims court, but i will not deny knowing that it wasn't in your best interest to spend the time, money and effort to come and serve me in a local case to which you would lose anyways. even though i never even wanted to charge you but i also never appreciate being unappreciated. congratulations on the negative publicity though, you may have won that $120 back there.
thank you all for your patronage, except Josh who was simply a tennant it appears. (the only cancelee in that 10+ year timeframe, also the largest single burner of my time of which i lost more in profits than that generous figure of $120 i charged) your own indecisiveness and lack of patience is what really cost you the figures you threw out, as if i try to choose out of state customers in an effort to rip them off.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 04:48 PM.
03-07-12, 04:49 PM
#19
All out Freak!
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Karack, I am a fan of your work, you know that.....but this isnt right.
Whether or not you set the deadline in stone doesnt matter--when you tell a customer that they can expect their project to be done in a certain amount of time and you have not even started it in that whole time, then you are not entitled to keep "storage fees". The one and only reason the car was there was because you agreed to work on it. But you did not hold up that end of the deal for whatever reason. It is not his fault that you did not get to work on his car in that time frame. I appreciate that you are a one man show--I am the same in the business I own. But because I also own a business, I can tell you with complete certainty that this isnt right. If you had his car and he wasnt paying, or kept changing his mind on what to do, then you would have a point. But in this case, that isnt what happened.
I understand that you have a lot of "sob stories" about how much you work, but to be honest, thats what you took on when you took on a business. I am in the same boat, so I understand, but at the end of the day, I have to work for my reputation, and so do you. That carries no weight in this issue--a customer doesnt come to you or me to hear our sob stories--they come to us so we can get the job done. I have three children, a great marriage, I am very involved in my church, I play in a band, I moderate a couple of other forums besides this one, and I know what it means to be busy. But that isnt the customer's problem.
At the end of the day, you do not have a right to storage fees.....unless you can prove to me that you did not tell this guy the time frame he mentioned. If you gave him no expectation about time, then he was wrong to pull his car. But if you did, and you didnt even start his car in that time, then he had every right to cancel. When you say, or even imply, something to a customer you need to be careful about delivering.
Whether or not you set the deadline in stone doesnt matter--when you tell a customer that they can expect their project to be done in a certain amount of time and you have not even started it in that whole time, then you are not entitled to keep "storage fees". The one and only reason the car was there was because you agreed to work on it. But you did not hold up that end of the deal for whatever reason. It is not his fault that you did not get to work on his car in that time frame. I appreciate that you are a one man show--I am the same in the business I own. But because I also own a business, I can tell you with complete certainty that this isnt right. If you had his car and he wasnt paying, or kept changing his mind on what to do, then you would have a point. But in this case, that isnt what happened.
I understand that you have a lot of "sob stories" about how much you work, but to be honest, thats what you took on when you took on a business. I am in the same boat, so I understand, but at the end of the day, I have to work for my reputation, and so do you. That carries no weight in this issue--a customer doesnt come to you or me to hear our sob stories--they come to us so we can get the job done. I have three children, a great marriage, I am very involved in my church, I play in a band, I moderate a couple of other forums besides this one, and I know what it means to be busy. But that isnt the customer's problem.
At the end of the day, you do not have a right to storage fees.....unless you can prove to me that you did not tell this guy the time frame he mentioned. If you gave him no expectation about time, then he was wrong to pull his car. But if you did, and you didnt even start his car in that time, then he had every right to cancel. When you say, or even imply, something to a customer you need to be careful about delivering.
03-07-12, 04:56 PM
#20
i gave him 6 weeks, he pulled out before the 6 week period was even up without even asking at what stage the car was in. granted it was still on the backburner, his attack that i hadn't even worked on the car yet was still unsubstantiated at the time he cancelled and even told me that was not the reason, but for personal issues he was dealing with at the time.
as i mentioned to him, what if i had yanked the motor out and had it completely disassembled at the time he called and cancelled? perhaps he was lucky i hadn't as i can literally do that in one day and often do. ask previous customers also as i have pulled 40 hours shifts in the past, although i always prefer to not rush a job.
i will not deny that it was unlikely that i could do all the work promised in a week's time.
so should i give him his $120 back? i honestly would like more opinion even though i respect yours roller and i appreciate that you had restraint from trying to burn me to the ground as well. i asked a number of friends and customers and told them both sides, good and bad trying my best to not give a biased picture before making my decision. granted one of the most biased reasons i had for myself was that even if i did give him a full refund even while losing myself that he still would not be happy, this thread would still exist and i would've lost even more.
perhaps it is time, even though i don't want to admit it but to stop trying to keep this working any longer. i've been thinking about closing the shop for some time now even though i pulled through this time but it's coming to the point of being not worth the headache.
perhaps we both feel like we were neglected but the car would have been done, if there was just a little bit more patience. i'm not talking months/years but a few weeks. i never once tried to push any additional services or sales on him for the build but the list kept getting longer, i almost feel like this was buyer's remorse the longer he had to think about it as he admitted also that the car was not practical for him any longer. the build totalled $4600+, considering my pricing that was one of my largest builds to date and most shops easily would have charged well over $6k for the same job.
as i mentioned to him, what if i had yanked the motor out and had it completely disassembled at the time he called and cancelled? perhaps he was lucky i hadn't as i can literally do that in one day and often do. ask previous customers also as i have pulled 40 hours shifts in the past, although i always prefer to not rush a job.
i will not deny that it was unlikely that i could do all the work promised in a week's time.
so should i give him his $120 back? i honestly would like more opinion even though i respect yours roller and i appreciate that you had restraint from trying to burn me to the ground as well. i asked a number of friends and customers and told them both sides, good and bad trying my best to not give a biased picture before making my decision. granted one of the most biased reasons i had for myself was that even if i did give him a full refund even while losing myself that he still would not be happy, this thread would still exist and i would've lost even more.
perhaps it is time, even though i don't want to admit it but to stop trying to keep this working any longer. i've been thinking about closing the shop for some time now even though i pulled through this time but it's coming to the point of being not worth the headache.
perhaps we both feel like we were neglected but the car would have been done, if there was just a little bit more patience. i'm not talking months/years but a few weeks. i never once tried to push any additional services or sales on him for the build but the list kept getting longer, i almost feel like this was buyer's remorse the longer he had to think about it as he admitted also that the car was not practical for him any longer. the build totalled $4600+, considering my pricing that was one of my largest builds to date and most shops easily would have charged well over $6k for the same job.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 05:21 PM.
03-07-12, 05:29 PM
#21
All in all, I do not believe Ben is anywhere near being a scammer.
After reading about both parties I do believe that Ben shouldve handled this differently.
At the same time, I also felt that Ben SHOULD NOT return the $120 "storage fee". Why? Because as a business owner, I run a shop with my business partner. There were times that many customer would like to come in and get quotes for this and that and gave us down payments for jobs etc. Then at the very last minute, they would pull out for whatever reason they may have. I will honestly tell them this, "I've spend X amount of time on preparing your job and ordered parts, now I will charge you the time I've spend + restock fees on parts" which was reasonable and so far none has complaint or not willing to pay even though they groan and didnt want to open up their wallet.
Also, it sounded like Ben had to "eat-up" the parts that was originally ordered for Josh and Josh wouldnt accept the parts and Ben had to take the lose on that? I dont think so.
In conclusion, Ben could be more informative and be more prompt on updating Josh on the whole situation. But due to the fact that Josh has his own personal problem and needed to pull his car, he was obligated and should pay Ben for his time + parts restocking fee.
I hope my opinion did not offend anyone and respectfully saying, I am still amazed with Ben's work and his craftmanship on rebuilding my engine.
Personal advice to Ben, if all these situations had put you into an very bad economical environment, I suggest pulling yourself out before it gets way too out of hand. I understood that working in this industry has been a passion for you. But if things are getting too out of hand and too much to handle; as a forum member and a business owner, a better choice is to pull the plug.
Rejuvenate yourself and maybe in the future you can go back into this business when you are economically more stable? Iono, just my own 2 cent.
-EZ
After reading about both parties I do believe that Ben shouldve handled this differently.
At the same time, I also felt that Ben SHOULD NOT return the $120 "storage fee". Why? Because as a business owner, I run a shop with my business partner. There were times that many customer would like to come in and get quotes for this and that and gave us down payments for jobs etc. Then at the very last minute, they would pull out for whatever reason they may have. I will honestly tell them this, "I've spend X amount of time on preparing your job and ordered parts, now I will charge you the time I've spend + restock fees on parts" which was reasonable and so far none has complaint or not willing to pay even though they groan and didnt want to open up their wallet.
Also, it sounded like Ben had to "eat-up" the parts that was originally ordered for Josh and Josh wouldnt accept the parts and Ben had to take the lose on that? I dont think so.
In conclusion, Ben could be more informative and be more prompt on updating Josh on the whole situation. But due to the fact that Josh has his own personal problem and needed to pull his car, he was obligated and should pay Ben for his time + parts restocking fee.
I hope my opinion did not offend anyone and respectfully saying, I am still amazed with Ben's work and his craftmanship on rebuilding my engine.
Personal advice to Ben, if all these situations had put you into an very bad economical environment, I suggest pulling yourself out before it gets way too out of hand. I understood that working in this industry has been a passion for you. But if things are getting too out of hand and too much to handle; as a forum member and a business owner, a better choice is to pull the plug.
Rejuvenate yourself and maybe in the future you can go back into this business when you are economically more stable? Iono, just my own 2 cent.
-EZ
03-07-12, 05:36 PM
#22
basically a single car in the shop put a hardship on me and ate up a bit of time and money basically on research and development. which was a build that turned out badly, which happens in every shop. most shops would try to pin it on the customer, but i have stood by my work with that car from the start regardless of how much personal time and even out of pocket cost for parts and seal kits regardless of whether it was my fault in overlooking something or something that was unreasonably not my fault.
for that i try to ignore the position i was in and worked through it, it did push Josh's car back and i could have told Juan to pound sand and get steve to tune his car and cross his fingers that there was no issues before or after the tune(of which there was, brand new supra TT pump failed on the dyno).
i suppose i should have updated him, asked for more time, etc but he seemed patient enough and did not ask questions. but pop goes the weasel here, he obviously was a ticking timebomb for whatever reason and exploded in my face.
i never deny that i'm a "yes" man, but i do my best to keep everyone happy. it's just with these particular cars(or restoration projects) that they always take more time than you anticipate. most people do not look at their car and think "man, this thing is 25 years old now", but when you have to dissect the car and things break you have a hard time forgetting that simple fact.
some people devote years to working on their cars, even in the engine bay but i somehow am required to put a solid timeframe on doing it in 2 weeks. every car that comes in is on the list, unless the shop is completely empty then they are still in line. larger impersonable and more expensive shops with less focus on detail will get started on your car right away as they have the resources to do so. i consider myself the corner market right next to the wal-mart(or you could think of it the other way around).
for that i try to ignore the position i was in and worked through it, it did push Josh's car back and i could have told Juan to pound sand and get steve to tune his car and cross his fingers that there was no issues before or after the tune(of which there was, brand new supra TT pump failed on the dyno).
i suppose i should have updated him, asked for more time, etc but he seemed patient enough and did not ask questions. but pop goes the weasel here, he obviously was a ticking timebomb for whatever reason and exploded in my face.
i never deny that i'm a "yes" man, but i do my best to keep everyone happy. it's just with these particular cars(or restoration projects) that they always take more time than you anticipate. most people do not look at their car and think "man, this thing is 25 years old now", but when you have to dissect the car and things break you have a hard time forgetting that simple fact.
some people devote years to working on their cars, even in the engine bay but i somehow am required to put a solid timeframe on doing it in 2 weeks. every car that comes in is on the list, unless the shop is completely empty then they are still in line. larger impersonable and more expensive shops with less focus on detail will get started on your car right away as they have the resources to do so. i consider myself the corner market right next to the wal-mart(or you could think of it the other way around).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 05:44 PM.
03-07-12, 05:43 PM
#23
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Join Date: Nov 2001
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FWIW, I don't think the storage fee is justified unless it was mentioned on the original agreement. Whatever restocking fees there are would be fair to charge. Any parts that are not returnable belong to Josh and he should get those parts with the purchase costs (and any labor costs for research/purchasing/returns) deducted from the original deposit.
It is the shop owner's responsibility to communicate all this in a timely manner (preferably before the deposit is made).
It is the shop owner's responsibility to communicate all this in a timely manner (preferably before the deposit is made).
03-07-12, 05:45 PM
#24
All out Track Freak!
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I've done lots of business with Josh and it's always been a pleasure.
I've bought cars that rick's rotary did work on and I wasn't impressed especially for what he charges.
I could care less about this mess but if you can't do business with Josh you can't do business.
I've bought cars that rick's rotary did work on and I wasn't impressed especially for what he charges.
I could care less about this mess but if you can't do business with Josh you can't do business.
03-07-12, 05:46 PM
#25
in all honesty i have never dealt with a customer backing out, if it's a simple issue of terminology then consider it a restocking fee versus a storage charge. i simply have a storage fee posted but do not have a policy for parts restocking as i had never even run into the issue before. i even sat on a motor for 9 months one time before the customer picked it up, it was not paid for in full either... did not charge him any fees, but as a motor it is much easier for me to set aside than a whole vehicle in a shop with limited space.
that's not a very thoughtful statement until you are in this position. if every customer cancelled not knowing the state of their car, expecting a full refund and their car in original condition then the world would seriously be a messed up place to live in.
i think Josh is most upset by the fact i helped him find out what the connector was for the low coolant buzzer after all this. that thing was annoying... can't imagine driving 500 miles each way with that thing on.
i think Josh is most upset by the fact i helped him find out what the connector was for the low coolant buzzer after all this. that thing was annoying... can't imagine driving 500 miles each way with that thing on.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 03-07-12 at 06:01 PM.