Tuning Up on Water Injection with E10.
05-16-09, 09:54 AM
#27
Performance Veteran...
550c for 10psi of boost is too much. But if you had a good ignition it wouldnt break up.
With my car. I know its too much water because i have to run lean mixtures to get it to make hp. Were as other Water injected cars that have the right amount of water, can run mixtures in the high to mid 10s and make more power then mine.
Car has made 543rwhp which is low. And it was much lower trying to run the mixtures i wanted to. I will note that my car is NOT PORTED. IT HAS FACTORY PORTS.
I will have some more data soon when i get some more dyno time(been busy) with the smaller jet. And i am very confident 600+rwhp will be a walk in the park.
With my car. I know its too much water because i have to run lean mixtures to get it to make hp. Were as other Water injected cars that have the right amount of water, can run mixtures in the high to mid 10s and make more power then mine.
Car has made 543rwhp which is low. And it was much lower trying to run the mixtures i wanted to. I will note that my car is NOT PORTED. IT HAS FACTORY PORTS.
I will have some more data soon when i get some more dyno time(been busy) with the smaller jet. And i am very confident 600+rwhp will be a walk in the park.
~ Kayvon
PS; Can you tell me a little more about your set-up? Year/make, turbo, boost levels on pump, ECU, ign, inj's, etc, etc.. thanks
05-16-09, 05:10 PM
#28
I think alcohol is great. Its just not practical for everybody, certainly not for me.
Water is cheap
The comment was not mean to be an attack or anything like that, i just get frustrated alittle. Water is great if used correctly. Alcohol is the same. Used in the wrong amounts will give you different effects.
Water is cheap
The comment was not mean to be an attack or anything like that, i just get frustrated alittle. Water is great if used correctly. Alcohol is the same. Used in the wrong amounts will give you different effects.
have u tried mixing them? or have only stuck to water?
05-16-09, 05:58 PM
#29
100% water.
No need to be scared.
It works like a champ.
My setup is nothing special
Engine:
Factory cosmo RE engine
8 dowells Per face(done by me)
NO PORTING
Rotor And Gear bearings have been modified
S6 Oil pressure regulator
Rotors them selves are FACTORY untouched.
Running 3mm Rotary Aviation Super Seal
Solid 3mm Mazda Corner Seals
Turbo:
Raceonly GT4202 with .91 T6 Rear(this is one of our first inhouse Ball Bearing Manufactured Turbos and i have been testing it for a while on my car).(we made the core, inlet and wheel and exhaust wheel, moulds for the front cover and rear housing are not complete yet so using garret parts. Everything else we made.
Inlet:
Factory Cosmo Inlets Untouched and standard in every way possible
Fuel:
2X Raceonly 044 Fuel pumps
1X Raceonly Fuel reg
6X1700cc Bosch Indys
Ignition
4X R7420 11 heat range spark plugs(thanks rice racing).
2 X Crane hi-6 boxes and lx92 coils
2X Mazda trailing coils
1 Microtech X4 box
ECU
Microtech Lt10s 4 bar map sensor, 12000rpm map etc
Exhaust
Manifold is NOT tuned length, as short as physically possible with having the steering box in the most annoying place, have the wastegate venting from the collector near the turbo flange, and holds a solid flat line 30psi.
Raceonly 60mm Wastegate.
3.5inch Mild Steel Exhaust with hand made resonator and muffler
Water injection
Coolingmist 150psi pump(250psi pump on its way soon)
1150cc jet Pre Turbo
Triggered by Eboost auxillary
Very primitive system runs flat out all the time.
Comes on at 8psi.
Car makes 543rwhp as of its last dyno session, i dont have any dyno sheets for the last bit of tuning i did, last dyno sheet i printed out was a long time ago 511rwhp.
Running 12:1 Afrs in some areas, tune was not finished, deeps into the low 11s over 7500rpm.
I dont recommend many people run the above afrs with 30psi, i had no choice just too much water. But jet is getting changed.
Here are some pictures
I hope that goes into enough detail.
No need to be scared.
It works like a champ.
My setup is nothing special
Engine:
Factory cosmo RE engine
8 dowells Per face(done by me)
NO PORTING
Rotor And Gear bearings have been modified
S6 Oil pressure regulator
Rotors them selves are FACTORY untouched.
Running 3mm Rotary Aviation Super Seal
Solid 3mm Mazda Corner Seals
Turbo:
Raceonly GT4202 with .91 T6 Rear(this is one of our first inhouse Ball Bearing Manufactured Turbos and i have been testing it for a while on my car).(we made the core, inlet and wheel and exhaust wheel, moulds for the front cover and rear housing are not complete yet so using garret parts. Everything else we made.
Inlet:
Factory Cosmo Inlets Untouched and standard in every way possible
Fuel:
2X Raceonly 044 Fuel pumps
1X Raceonly Fuel reg
6X1700cc Bosch Indys
Ignition
4X R7420 11 heat range spark plugs(thanks rice racing).
2 X Crane hi-6 boxes and lx92 coils
2X Mazda trailing coils
1 Microtech X4 box
ECU
Microtech Lt10s 4 bar map sensor, 12000rpm map etc
Exhaust
Manifold is NOT tuned length, as short as physically possible with having the steering box in the most annoying place, have the wastegate venting from the collector near the turbo flange, and holds a solid flat line 30psi.
Raceonly 60mm Wastegate.
3.5inch Mild Steel Exhaust with hand made resonator and muffler
Water injection
Coolingmist 150psi pump(250psi pump on its way soon)
1150cc jet Pre Turbo
Triggered by Eboost auxillary
Very primitive system runs flat out all the time.
Comes on at 8psi.
Car makes 543rwhp as of its last dyno session, i dont have any dyno sheets for the last bit of tuning i did, last dyno sheet i printed out was a long time ago 511rwhp.
Running 12:1 Afrs in some areas, tune was not finished, deeps into the low 11s over 7500rpm.
I dont recommend many people run the above afrs with 30psi, i had no choice just too much water. But jet is getting changed.
Here are some pictures
I hope that goes into enough detail.
05-16-09, 09:53 PM
#33
Finally Knows
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Update - I leaned out all my boost areas by .2. So, I am now running 550cc water at 16psi with 11.0 A/Fs. The AEM kit I have is progressive, so it comes on at 0PSI and increases to 100% at 16psi. There is no dyno on my island so I cant prove this with numbers, but I've made multiple 3rd and 4th gear pulls and can definitely fell a power diffrence. I can tell that I am getting a complete burn. Power comes on smooth and strong. Knock readings are 25ish in the high boost and RPM areas. Intake air temps droping around 15c with the water on full blast.
For anyone with my mods or similar, I would recomend you start with a 300cc injector, tune with normal pump gas A/F's, then move up to a 550cc and fine tune like I did. Worked like a charm.
For anyone with my mods or similar, I would recomend you start with a 300cc injector, tune with normal pump gas A/F's, then move up to a 550cc and fine tune like I did. Worked like a charm.
05-16-09, 10:03 PM
#34
Finally Knows
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I think alcohol is great. Its just not practical for everybody, certainly not for me.
Water is cheap
The comment was not mean to be an attack or anything like that, i just get frustrated alittle. Water is great if used correctly. Alcohol is the same. Used in the wrong amounts will give you different effects.
Water is cheap
The comment was not mean to be an attack or anything like that, i just get frustrated alittle. Water is great if used correctly. Alcohol is the same. Used in the wrong amounts will give you different effects.
That's why I use straight water. Its more practical for me. Meth is hard to get and costs $6 a gallon where I live and, I have a VERY heavy foot.
05-20-09, 11:07 AM
#38
BDC Motorsports
That looks neat, rx72c!
My concern with doing the pre-turbo injection has been the notion of corrosion. Have you done this setup for a very long time, on this same turbo, to see any of that kind of negative effect or do you know of anyone who's run into that?
B
My concern with doing the pre-turbo injection has been the notion of corrosion. Have you done this setup for a very long time, on this same turbo, to see any of that kind of negative effect or do you know of anyone who's run into that?
B
05-20-09, 06:53 PM
#40
I have a customer car that has been running it on his 35r for close to a year now.
0 DAMAGE TO THE WHEEL.
He has been running the same amount of water as me up until recently. Did some changes to the car, smaller jet, shsv valve and haltech platinum 1000 so will be on dyno soon to try and break the 500rwhp with 35r.
0 DAMAGE TO THE WHEEL.
He has been running the same amount of water as me up until recently. Did some changes to the car, smaller jet, shsv valve and haltech platinum 1000 so will be on dyno soon to try and break the 500rwhp with 35r.
05-26-09, 06:05 PM
#42
Because people talk ****.
They think it will do it, so you get e-know it alls that say, oh **** you cant do it cause youll get erosion.
then you find all the people that try it, you dont get a single one with a problem.
their is a shot of my compressor wheel in the above photo.
Show me where the pitting or corrosion is.
They think it will do it, so you get e-know it alls that say, oh **** you cant do it cause youll get erosion.
then you find all the people that try it, you dont get a single one with a problem.
their is a shot of my compressor wheel in the above photo.
Show me where the pitting or corrosion is.
05-26-09, 06:06 PM
#43
Older systems that didn't atomize the water properly had compressor erosion. I suppose any system that isn't designed with this in mind could have issues. Better nozzle designs and higher pressures with pump type systems helps keep the water atomized. My system for instance comes out in a fine mist even though it's a low pressure system due to the nozzle design. I researched this extensively before putting together my kit. Another thing i read about a factory preturbo system was even when turbo's had erosion it didn't effect the performance of the turbo, this was on some car built in the late 80's. Don't recall the make and model. But really with a proper system design compressor wheel damage isn't an issue.
05-26-09, 06:37 PM
#44
BDC Motorsports
then you find all the people that try it, you dont get a single one with a problem.
their is a shot of my compressor wheel in the above photo.
Show me where the pitting or corrosion is.
their is a shot of my compressor wheel in the above photo.
Show me where the pitting or corrosion is.
B
05-26-09, 06:38 PM
#45
BDC Motorsports
Older systems that didn't atomize the water properly had compressor erosion. I suppose any system that isn't designed with this in mind could have issues. Better nozzle designs and higher pressures with pump type systems helps keep the water atomized. My system for instance comes out in a fine mist even though it's a low pressure system due to the nozzle design. I researched this extensively before putting together my kit. Another thing i read about a factory preturbo system was even when turbo's had erosion it didn't effect the performance of the turbo, this was on some car built in the late 80's. Don't recall the make and model. But really with a proper system design compressor wheel damage isn't an issue.
B
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