sen2two

iTrader: (10)

so everything is hooked up and ready to go. i just need to tap and mount the nozzle now. its an M8 (500cc). this is a non progressive kit...

last few questions...

would 500cc (M8) be to much water for a stock turbo motor? i will be pushing 10-12 psi.
-if so, should i run 50/50 mix? stock ECU...no tuning will be done.

im looking to have it avtivate at 5psi. good idea? or is 500cc to much for 5psi on a stock set up?

with the chances of getting water or meth build up caught in the intercooler injecting pre-intercooler. and maybe not getting a chance to vaporize completely injecting on the backside of the intercooler. would it be better to put it at wich one of the arrows? or maybe you have a better idea...?

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

so not one person injects on a stock TII?

so everything is hooked up now except for the placement of the nozzle. I think i have settled on the rear part of the intercooler. and stepping down to an M5 if i go with water only. but sticking with the M8 if i run 50/50. 500cc of pure water just might be to much...

its easy to swap the injector out too. the hose is quick disconnect. and the injector threads in and out quickly...

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

also, heres some numbers for people who want to run 50/50 without tuning.

stock TII has 550's all around.
M8 = 500cc injector
50/50 means 250cc water and 250cc meth with an M8 injector

so if you split that in terms of injectors. thats 125cc per secondary injector. or 75cc per injector. but you have to minus 30%, since you need more meth, just like ethenol e85. (30% isnt exact, im just using that number cause thats what e85 is. its actually a higher number but im not sure what it is)

125cc - 30% = 88cc (in terms of secondarys only)

or

75cc - 30% = 53cc (all four injectors)

so in thinking about adding the added fuel to just the primarys. its like tunning primary 550's and 763cc secondarys.

or

running 603cc injectors all around.

so, the way i see it. you can safely run 50/50 mix with an M8 (500cc) injector on a stock motor and be just fine without tuning.

but stock i mean; intake, exhaust, and boost raised slightly. wich most people do without any tuning anyways. the 250cc of water, and 250cc of meth, just make it run safer and better. no worry about detonation or going lean...

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

as a side note... I will be running this at 12psi. And my motor came stock with a tuned Pan-Speed ECU. So i dont know what adjustments have been made in the ECU already...

I think the car will run very hard (for stock) and clean too... i'll check with a wide band to be sure.

swkiller

iTrader: (1)

i heard that on smaller turbos you have to start spraying at more than 50% of what you are gonna boost you might end up washing out the housings with water.
if you wanna boost 12 or 13psi without going lean just get a pair of gsl-se injectors thats what i did its a simple little swap i even got the injectors for free, i was going to do what you are doing but i if you still have the stock turbo it maxes out like at 14psi anyway. but im guessing if you have a wideband just play with the nozzle sizes till you get your a/r that you want

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

originally i was gonna use GSL-SE injectors with pure water and a smaller M5 water injection. But, I think this will work out much better and safer.

also, i will have it start injecting at around 6psi. wich is stock boost level. so it will only be injecting on higher than stock boost levels, wich for me is 12psi. and the stock turbos are efficient up to around 18spi. but the stock intercooler is only good to about 12-14 before it becomes useless. thasts where the water works its magic. plus, my motor came from a front clip, and the ECU was pre-tund by Pan Speed. so the fuel curve and timing is probly already adjusted. and i will be adding an SACF II to make some minor adjustment.

if the M8 is to small, i'll add a second smaller one. if its to much, i'll step it down. but i think it will be just right.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

heres some pics of how i installed my set-up...

I made a little mount out of aluminum and bolted it directly to the floor. mounted the boost switch and reservoir to the speaker tower. The reservoir is the stock rear wiper fluid tank. It sat lower than the pump and i didnt like that. so i mounted it above for gravity to feed water to the pump. All the lines were run up through the center of the car under the rug.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

And heres where i mounted my Nozzle (injector). The stock intercooler is just thick enough to tap. Just barely though. I thought that would be a problem, but luckily enough. it worked out just fine.

I used a hard line for the boost switch that i got from Home Depot. its similar to the hard line that came with the kit from cooling mist. but i got a huge roll for two dollars! I like this set-up cause its pretty much hidden. After i either find a stock cargo cover to hide the fuel cell and pump, or make one myself. this will be barely noticable...

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

So, this is how i answered my own question as of. How and where to inject on a stock TII... maybe this will help someone out in the future...

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

i would run engine management my friend. thats just me.

also, i run a progressive unit with an 800 cc nozzel smack bang right in front of the stock turbo.

i run a haltech e6x with 550 primary and 1600cc seccondaries all on a stock engine, bnr stage 1 turbo with higher ocmpression s4 na rotors.

so far, its liking it. made 250 whp at stock boost and a good tune.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

PART II:


So i updated my AI system, and thought i would update this also. Everything worked fine except there was one thing i didnt take into account. And that is the acions of the stock turbo. And what does the stock turbo do when you get close to the redline? thats right, boost steadily drops. not good when im injecting 500cc of 50/50 going with the air instead of against it. I was breaking up after 6k rpm. So the last 1k rpm i couldnt use. Im sure it was because of the boost falling off and the 50/50 mix not atomizing and flooding the engine. So i re-thought my AI set-up a little...



So what i came up with was two smaller injectors intstead of one large 500cc injector (250cc/180cccc = 430cc). I opted for two smaller injectors in hope of better atomization. (The smaller the injector, the finer the mist) I put one injector in the same location as i had the 500cc. But replaced it with a 180cc injector. Then T'ed off the line and added a 250cc injector at the exact opposite end of the intercooler. This larger one is injecting against the air stream helping it to atomize even further. So with a very small 180 injecting with the air, and a 250 injecting against it, im sure this set-up wil work MUCH better. Im only injecting 70cc less, but i will have ten times the atomization now. And hopefully cooling my air charge even further.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

Im heading to a dyno soon and depending on what my AFR's read, i might switch my mix to 75 meth/ 25 water. But the car feels awesome as is. AI is the best thing to happen to a rotary since the turbo...

prjct87rx7

iTrader: (7)

so doing it right before the air temp sensor doesnt bother it any?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

DO IT PRE TURBO. DONT PUT IT ANYWERE ELSE and the 500cc jet is perfect!

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

The only way i would do per-turbo is like this:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ater+injection


and even then i would only run pure water, no meth mixed.

Also, im doing this all on the stock turbo, motor, intercooler, ECU, everything... So in my case 500cc on one injector was just to much and wasnt atomizing. I have already ran it a few times with my dual injectors equaling 430cc, and the results are much better.

I plan on doing the pre-turbo mechanical water only injection, just not yet. For now, this is working out beautifully.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

Its not really "right before" the AIT. As long as its some what atomized by the time it reaches the AIT, its fine. Wich im sure mine is. Plenty of people run it even closer.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Why only that way?

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

Easily put, atomization.

Theres no better way to get a finer mist. And if i was to shoot water at my turbo blades, i would want the finest mist possible. Also, it raises the amount of water with boost. Just like all the exspensive brands do with all the electronic controllers/adjusters. No need for all the complication.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I'm still on a learning curve myself, so these are questions as much as anything. But two things.......
*430 cc/min still seems like alot of water for what I'm guessing your rwhp is on 10 to 12 psi and on the stock ECU. If my math from the sticky is right, and figuring 300 rwhp (for an example), you still would only need about 240 cc/min.
*I'm not sure about pre-IAT injection on a stock ECU. By putting it there, won't you sort of be "tuning for it"? Thinking it through, and on water-only, wouldn't the stock ECU be seeing the low temps and be compensating with more fuel....maybe too much fuel? If your goal on water-only is just to lower EGT and knock, why not do it after IAT?
Again, these are questions, not challenges.

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

WEll im using a coolingmist jet on my rx7 and its delivering over 1300cc of water around 4 inches from the compressor wheel and almost 1.5 years later with this turbo comp wheel is in brand new condition.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

Im not saying it dosnt work. And its been proven to work well with injectors from almost all the brands out there. I am just always looking for the small advantages. And while the cooling mist injectors atomize very well. They are still no match for the nozzle used in the mechanical set-up. and without a controller of some sort, it does not raise with boost as does the mechanical set-up.

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

the reason you dont want to inject after the AIT is will never see the cooler air charge created by aux. injection. even so, the adjustments made by the stock ECU is not going to be much at all. so im not worried about the injectors flooding the motor in any way.

430cc might be a little much for what im doing if i was using pure water. but im injecting 50/50 (50 water/ 50 methenol). also, as i have found out, its all about atomization. dropping from one large injector to two smaller injectors worked well for me. also, placement is key. I have no idea what kind of power i am making, but i will be hitting the dyno real soon to find out.

If/when i do add pre-turbo water injection. i will be changing my post-turbo mix to 75 meth / 25 water. or something along those lines. more testing will be done to get the best result.

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

arent you gonna remove that lame *** plate from under your inter cooler?

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

No. Its there for a VERY good reason.

When water comes in through the TII hood scoop, it passes through the intercooler and lands on the plate. Then drains off to a safe area. without the plate water is free to land and puddle on top of the motor. Right where most of your electrical harness lives. water + elcetrical = very bad. KEEP THE PLATE!

freemanrx7

Ever get those dyno numbers?