coolingmist

Forget the vid. Let me quote borge:

For those that dont know 250cc M is 4 GPH. It says M5. At 100% dutycycle with a 150 psi pressure it will range from 5.8 GPH to 6.10 GPH which is roughly 390 to 400 CC/M. You have a HUGE drop in pressure.

M3, M5 doesn't matter. Your own tests in print in borges post prove something is wrong with the setup. Its simple math. Let me help to clarify it for you Scott. 250 CC/M is 4 GPH. A M5 that is making 4 GPH means there is roughly 70-75 PSI in the line. Here is how you can figure this out 6*SQRT(70/150)=4.09 GPH or 272 CC/M.

In the equasion the 6 is the known GPH at 150 psi. The 70 is the pressure in the line to equal the 272 CC/M.

Maybe this one will make more sense. 5 * SQRT(150/100)=6.22 GPH. In otherwords a M5 nozzle will make roughly 6.22 GPH at 150 psi.

All the numbers have a margin of error, but not by 2 GPH.



The numbers dont add up, the test is not Valid. Its no wonder the tuning gain showed no range, there is nothing to work with.

borgue

david, you have my word that these tests were conducted to the best of my ability and objectivly, i consulted a PHD chemest with an honers degree in physics about how to conduct the tests.

i purchased a 150psi vairycool kit from you about 10 months ago. i will find the invoice.

why does my 150psi kit by your own admission put out 100psi? is that not misleading?

furthermore, what about the total flow with no jet?

why did it only put out 1000cc/min at free flow?

i have nothing to gain from misleading people as you are suggesting, as i no longer have any water injection kit.

the numbers dont add up?!! how is that my problem, i am an electrician i wired the setup as per your instructions. the tests had the exact anound of hose as was in my car.

i have not adjusted the controller as i couldnt get dotnet framework to function with you software (not your problem, mine)

Ollie

coolingmist

I doubt it even puts out 100 psi. I dont have an answer other than to say obviously your pump is not putting out 150 psi. Im sure you would agree.

should be roughly 1 GPM according to shurflo
I wasnt there but 1,000 CC/M is only 1/4 GPM. Your system should put out 1 GPM at free flow. It sounds like the pump is clogged.

Honestly, Its not your problem, you are trying to make it mine so I must defend my product. I am simply stating a fact, your numbers dont add up. Intentionally or not, your "tests" are not accurate. Is it possible your pump is bad? Yes.

I already pulled your invoice, you ordered a kit in March 2006.

The only thing your tests proved is that YOUR system is not working right. Other than that, I dont know what to say.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

ollie,

if i had done the test and posted the results as you have i would feel obligated to get to the bottom of it all. obviously something's wrong and no one knows at this point. i would send the entire unit back to the manufacturer, find out what's wrong and expect the manufacturer to make it right.

further, if something was wrong relating to the test i would personally make sure that i reposted so that all of the people that read my test results would understand the situation why the flow was low and non-adjustable.

currently you have people on other boards linking to this thread inferring that progressive controllers don't work coincidentally at the exact time a manufacturer is rolling out a non-progressive system.

whether you do or do not, at this point, care as to the problem w the system you have elected to go to the trouble of posting your test results. if i had made the post i would feel obligated to follow thru.

if it is the manufacturer's fault, so be it. if it is something else let's find out and learn.

why don't you PM the vendor and work something out. as it sits currently the system is worthless, work out the shipping, straighten out the system and have them resell it used and we all win. i have not spoken to the vendor but would hope they would be as interested in resolving your problems as we all are.

howard coleman

borgue

there is an added complication to your plan howard, i have sold the kit.

however i would like to resolve this issue, it seems to me like there may possibly be an issue with the early batch of controllers, as two are not functioning as the manufacturer intended?

would this come under a product recall?

have spoken to scott and he is trying to be constructive with the data provided on the other forum.

i am happy to help solve the problem with david, i would like the kit to function as best as possible for the new owner, im sure there wont be a problem if david would like to try to reflash the unit or whatever, but this would need to be at his expense. Not mine.

Ollie

coolingmist

Ollie,

There is nothing wrong with your controller, I made that quite clear. The new flash will add options such as locking and making the LED go solid and it will add alot of features not yet exposed for the end user.

Your pump is no putting out enough pressure, its that simple. I dont know what else I can tell you.

I am willing to look at any kit. The new owner can ship us the entire kit and I can test the controller/pump to see the problem. I will not charge to test the unit. I can rebuild the pump as we have silver 150 psi pumps here. The new owner is responsible for all shipping charges, to and from. If he is interested have him email us and we can arrange it.




David

borgue

right ok will pass the info on.

i have said all i need to say on this matter.

but a note to all water/methanol injection users, please please periodicly test and inspect your system!

pull the jet and measure the flow, use a foot pump or simulate the triggers for your system and find out how much flow you get. dont rely on manufacturers data. generate your own which will be specific to your car.

check it does what you want.

and remember 'the truth is out there....' (some were)

Ollie

sdminus

David... are you serious. Howard has thrown you a life line here............

Scott

PimpyHand

WOW

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

Ollie,

you bought a kit, Used the kit for 10+ months, Tested the kit on god knows what settings, sold the kit, and then posted about how the system doesn't work? Something sounds very fishy to me. If I where David I wouldn't do a thing to help the other guy out. Most of these kits only come with a 1 year warranty and then the warranty is not transferable at that. Why are people still bashing CM? I think it realy is a lack of knowledge on how to tune and use it since there is alot more to it than most kits. Sucks that this is happening because it's going to drive people that make kits like these stop making them programmable and start making them with a preset "user friendly" setup that can't be changed. It's like in grade school during study hall when you where allowed to talk but then some loud mouth started yelling so the teacher said no more talking to anyone.

sdminus

Sorry hondahater that is not the case.

ollie bought the kit 10 months ago. He used it to tune his elford turbo and then he used it for 6 drag runs at the strip. The kit was never touched untill he witnesed my kit in action.
His kit was then tested using a m1 jet, m3 jet ,m5 jet on tune settings 5 and 10 at 10, 20 ,30 psi. It was then tested across settings 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. most of these tests are on video. the flow was recored as well. the last test was full open flow which was 1000cc/1. is the range not fair in some way ?

Where has ollie gone wrong here. Ollie has sold the kit and his water injection experiance has put him off. he has just invested in a big barrel of c16 with the money from the kit which does not work. ( but CM claim there is nothing wrong except a pump glitch )

Sorry i forgot to mention Ollies dad is a phd biochemist, bsc physics, and assisted with tests.

Scott

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

so instead of confronting the manufacturer about the problem he was having he went ahead and ripped someone off with a kit that wasn't working correctly? Why do these kits get sold instead of sending them back to have them tested by the manufacturer and possible fixed? I would be pretty pissed if I bought a used kit that didn't work. Who is actually doing the ripping off? CM or you guys?

edit: sorry this post comes off negative just wondering why you guys don't take the obvious route (sending the kit back) instead of selling these "faulty" kits.

sdminus

Becasue david has insisted it is ok. David has also declined the opertunity to fix the system.

Coolingmist. for a product that has been proven on 2 operate occasions not to work.

Scott

p.s. i didnt sell my kit. i gave it away for free and made all its faults known

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

???


Also with someone that had such a good relationship with him (calling him up to tell him the great results etc...) He wouldn't test the kit for you after you asked him?

sdminus

Sorry i was refering to howards idea ( which was a good idea ) and ollies kit.

I'm going to cut my losses and leave this debate. As we know there was loads of good pointers in the other thread and i would like to have seen the kit work.

As ollie said please test your kits on a regular basis at various pressures

Scott

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

so ollie and his phd dad did all the tests on their system and concluded it didn't work.

i don't have a phd but at that point Plan A for me would have been to send the system back to the vendor. i would expect the vendor to evaluate the system, explain the problem to me and fix it. then, after it was fixed i would have either used it as originally intended or sold a fully evaluated working system for 85% of what i'd paid for it and bought even more c16.

that would have been Plan A.

Plan B, selling a non performing system for v low dollars, doesn't seem like a great option. you either tell the buyer that the system sucks and you get $100 or you don't tell him it doesn't work sell it for alot more and, well, you know what happens then...

looks like it was Plan B.

Plan B w a twist.... get even w the vendor.
instead of diagonosing and fixing the problem, post the tests and watch the sharks move in. which they did. pretty soon we went from something wrong w one system to ALL non AQ systems being fundamentally flawed. yeah, right.

if you post a test of a system that isn't working you are making an accusation.

nothing wrong w that at all.

if you accuse someone, however, you owe it to them to answer the accusation. in this case it means you allow them to TEST THEIR SYSTEM AND RESPOND.

it is too bad that we may never know why the system did not properly function so all we are left w is a hit piece. i must confess to being very curious as to the "why" relating to ollie's system.

maybe the new buyer will take david's offer... let's see, i buy a semi non working system for the right price and the manufacturer offers to evaluate it and probably fix it for postage. i think that's an offer i would accept.

since ollie informed the new buyer of CM's offer it would seem the new buyer would either send it off and get it fixed, or fix it himself, or he bought it because he needed a tax write-off, or.... there is another option.

howard coleman

coolingmist

We always take care of our customers. You NEVER, EVER asked me to "FIX" your system or Ollies.

Today our kits have a 1 year warranty. Back then it was a 90 day warranty. Warranties are only good for the original owner. If someone buys a kit used, we will not warranty it. Having said that, I was going to make an exception for this one as you can read from one of my Previous posts.

Had Ollie or Scott EVER called me and told me that there was a problem with the kit I would have taken care of it. All Scott ever did was call me to tell me how great the kit was. He then referred Ollie to buy our kit as well. Scott also called me to tell me how great that kit was working on a 12A engine.

We do not cover international shipping for warranty purposes, however if we sent someone the WRONG part or if we had done something wrong we would certainly take care of our customer and take care of the shipping. At this point the jury is still out as to what was wrong. Scotts kit was a kit he pieced together without a checkvalve, 100 psi pump, I believe there was nothing wrong with the parts, it was the way he put the parts together. Ollies kit may have something wrong, its likely the pump.

I believe our offer to check out Ollies kit and repair/replace is more than fair considering it has been out of warranty, has changed hands and we have no obligation.

This has never been an issue that you care about. You have been in bed with our competitor since you started working on a new kit for you.

Here is what I am going to to, just to be clear. I will give the new owner of the kit until Feb 24, 2007 to contact me and make arrangements to ship me the kit. TO BE CLEAR, if we determine we shipped someone the WRONG part, we will cover postage We all need to move on from this.

David

rotorbrain

david, i trust youll post the results of all these whatnots on this forum? id really like to see the conclusion.

coolingmist

If we sent the wrong pump, I will gladly disclose that. If the pump is defective or has any other issue I will disclose that.

We will test the controller and disclose all results.

I dont expect to get the kit back, this entire thread was a manipulation of a competiting water injection company. Nothing more, nothing less.

David

borgue

david this was not manipulation, i have nothing to gain from any of this. i have no affiliation to any vendor or company.

i was mearly concerned about my car! your early posts and reactions were unhelpfull and i decided there and then to cut my losses.

thank you for your offer to inspect test the system i will pass the offer on to the new owner.



Ollie

coolingmist

What was so "un helpful". I made observations and told you to run some additional tests and then your answer was "I sold the kit".

Scott loved our kit and referred you, You purchased our it. Scott began working with our competitor and decided to trash our kit and now you are all of a sudden having problems. See a pattern? I dont blame you, I believe you are just support ing your friend.

Thats my take. Dont act like I was not trying to help and my posts were "un helpful" Had you really cared you would have emailed me that you were having problems. Putting something in a public forum and posting "TESTS" and then amazingly selling the kit in just 2 days is very suspicious. You and Scott had absolutely NO intention whatsoever to get any problem resolved.

Tell Richard..I mean the new owner of the kit to send it here for me to examine.

David

sdminus

David. i take offence to your comments.
You are making false accusations about me, ollie and others.

You and your company are at blame here. It has taken nearly 2 months to get you this far. There are still problems you fail/refuse to address.

David... i do not work for Aquamist.

I find your online manner abrupt and evasive. I have tried to help you by telling you the faults in plain english.
You offered to check this out days after the event. it is all so easy to say in retrospect !!!!!!

Scott

coolingmist

I dont care if you take it offensive or not. After you posted your "results" or your "video" I spent 2 days testing our setup. I prefered to have hard data here instead of just post. Once I tested Thats when I responded to your so called video and by magic it was sold and you can no longer do any testing. Just like YOUR setup was taken off your car and you could no longer test. And yet you want to get to the bottom of it, RIGGGGHHHHHHT.

I guess this is your version of "shock and awe". Most people are pretty smart and know what this is about.

David

sdminus

again you bleat on about complete nonsense.

I tested mine before i pulled it off the car. I already knew it didnt work. I knew this way back in the summer.

Ollie needed to move his kit from his elford turbo to his fd. He decided to test it. I was not there for the first test but he brought the pos to me so i could see for my self.

You took several days to take action. By which time it was too late.
there was no need to do any further testing.

No Shock and awe daivid. But you seem to have rallyed support for your attack on me.

neither kit works. .....neither controller works......

Im glad you dont care, becasue that is your whole attitude to anybody that crosses you.

admit it david.

IT JUST DOES NOT WORK. AT LEAST I KNOW THE TRUTH NOW. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO B/S EVERYBODY BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU CANNOT HIDE FROM THE TRUTH.

i know of a few more of these kits.. so guess what....... when i get bored i will get those tested as well. May be then you might decide to act in good time.

so long David. I hope you can sleep at night.

Scott

coolingmist

yes Scott I can sleep just fine. Do what ever "TEST" you want. You can continue to lie and pretend that your kit was functioning properly, it just shows you character. I look forward to your future TESTS.