tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

At the time the best used housings we could find were a set of FC housings that I bought from Japan2la, I didn't know they were not as good as the fd housings.?.

There is no evidence to suggest the engine builder was anyway at fault for the engine failure. The evidence is there was a lean condition, detonation, not enough water being injected when the corner seals failed while using pump gas and 24-25 psi boost while drag racing it.. He is not scratching his head as to why it failed..

I think a little more premix would have been a good idea, and I still know the water injector check valve problem had an affect on my engine somehow due to the loss in power and compression. Maybe I should put some of my 2 stroke oil on the housing and spray the water injector at it and see if any or how much oil washes off of it haha.

I appreciate the help and your view points based on your experiences.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Never once have I taken this personal until your above comment with accusations that I was trying to pull something over on someone. I have been as up front and honest in everyone of my transactions on this forum and in this community as possible. I have stated in probably 20+ different threads over the years it is much easier to find good condition S5 NA and S5TII housings on the market than FD housings due to spark plug cracking and striations around the trailing plug holes on S6 housings. Keep in mind I wasnt the one selling knock off Greddy ICs as legit Greddy Products or selling damaged irons to other engine builders back in the day. You dont want to play this game.

The fact you think I have something to hide is pure comedy, the guy claiming RA Superseals do not cause excessive wear to housings is bold enough to claim someone else is hiding something or not being upfront and truthful You cant make this stuff up.

To those reading, I dont do this for a living any longer. Hopefully that will shed some light on who has a bias and who does not. Take from it what you will.

I will leave it at this:

I still, after all this, wish Banzai nothing but the best and will still refer people in his area, that contact me, to him for work. I am absolutely blown away he still to this day will not admit the damage the RA superseals due to housings after hundreds of forum members and respected builders have clearly posted the results they have found, I just dont get it. If that is what you choose to use, great, but be honest about the product.

If ALS seals eat housings like RA seals Im sure we will learn sooner rather than later. I simply hope it is not the case and in my personal experience(ive torn down a few more engines than Banzai would like you to believe) it hasnt been the norm or common place. As of now, in my honest opinion they are the best seal on the market for those looking to make power, not worry and get good life out of their engine.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

I dont want to make this a pissing contest, but ignore his post about trying to get oil off your driveway with a water hose. It makes no sense in this situation whatsoever. That would be like taking cold distilled water and trying to clean the carbon off an engine rotor in your shop vs steam cleaning your engine with it running with distilled water. It was a terrible analogy on his part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNwUFL1lyzA

Steam cleaning is used in several applications of oil cleanup from small spills/stains to huge disaster spills.

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

Banzai-Racing

iTrader: (11)

That's funny because we are not talking about steam are we? Tom said his intercooler was full of water and he thought it splashed into engine. So that is exactly like dumping cold water on oil. Analogy stands.

Don't have any idea what you are talking about with the IC's, unless you are referring to the one kid that tried to scam us for an IC after he hit a racoon. I can only guess you are talking about the irons and housings that I used to sell to Kevin at like $20 ea. Sorry pal that is scrap value, the deal was the parts were not going to be cleaned or inspected. All your second hand/third info will be your downfall.

Try reading the posts, this is really getting old having to correct you all the time. I am done bringing myself down to your level. You can spew whatever crap you want on the forum, it does not make it true. I know there are people like yourself that think if you say something enough times it will make it true.

Tom good luck with your enigne, I am sure it will turn out fine.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

You are clearly joking, right?

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

Do you guys usually see both housings with about the same amount of wear? the rear housing is a lot worse than the front, could this be because a puddle of water in the ic was getting forced into the engine will mostly go to the rear housing due to centrifugal force around the greedy elbow to the throttle body.

I agree more with dj on this one haha. There is more pressure, force and heat inside the engine, it is more like steam cleaning, not the same as trying to hose oil off the driveway, maybe more like using a pressure washer with hot water.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Miles on a motor dont mean anything.
Isnt the old saying that a 1/4 mile pass is equal to 100miles wear on a motor?
Engine rpm, racing, any abuse at all compared to a guy who just dayly drives their car and does not redline high is going to have a longer lasting motor.
with that said.....
Tom in my opinion has had a good run with the motor since he pushed the twins so hard in the past with unknown egt's and obviously drives the car hard as hell. So i think that it was a good run. I mean the car still made 500hp and its not like its going to hold perfect compression forever.

I would not blame water to be the culprit its been used sucessfully for a long time

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

Good points. Not having enough water or water meth with the pump gas was likely one of the causes of the detonation and engine failure, but before that I had the water injector problem and lots of water going through my engine and then it lost some power and compression, that was what we were just debating whether or not that caused most of the wear to the housings.

thanks

Barry Bordes

Tom ,
This picture seems to show that the dents are on the trailing side of the rotor.
Notice the carbon at the side seal to corner seal junction.
This trailing side would be where detonation and your improbable water-compression would occur.
Sorry about the large picture. How do you resize it?
Barry

Barry Bordes

This image that djseven showed of RA seal wear is what Mazda called "the Claw Marks of the Devil"
when they were trying to find a compatible seal material for the housings. They would not have chosen this seal.

I call it seal chatter.




















Your wear, on the otherhand, appears to be circumferential only and possibly within limits.
Since you are using a good air filter... The cause is probably from pieces of carbon flaking off of the rotor face and lodging against the seals, and this in turn scratching the housing surface.

Can you catch your fingernail on the scratches?
Take a piece of scotchbrite and scuff the surface side to side and let us see a picture.

Thanks,
Barry

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

I wasn't sure what would be considered the leading or trailing side of the rotor. the dents are on the sides of the rotor corners that goes past the spark plugs first, but during the combustion I guess that would be the trailing side.

Yes I can very easily catch a fingernail on the somewhat deep scratches, they are pretty bad.

I have done alot of idling for long periods of time trying to tune my idle, it used to be a pretty rich idle, it's not too rich now, and I've always had to use retarded ignition timing to get it to idle good. Could this cause the carbon buildup and then carbon flaking off during boost/water injection steam cleaning.

Thanks!

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

actually I can just barely snag a fingernail on a few scratches on the rear housing, and like just one scratch on the front housing. For the most part you can feel them really good but not easy to snag a fingernail on a scratch.

You still want me to scuff the surface and take a pic? I will have to do that after work, have to leave now for work.

thanks.

Barry Bordes

Tom,
Yes, still scotchbrite the area please.

Look at the reflection in the area marked in green. Notice how smooth and straight the reflection is?
This is why I think that the scratches are more visual. Put a straight edge across this area and estimate compression escaping.

How put the same straight edge across the red arrows. Does it rock? Again estimate how compression would be lost!

My normal clean-up of this area would include stoning the housing high spot in a varsol tank till it was flat and then cutting
a small horizontal football shaped chamfer on the plug holes.

Barry

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Please note that you are referring to RA seals. THey offer two differrent seals. THe classics do not wear the housings like you have pictured. However the super seals are known for that.

rotorican85

iTrader: (9)

Like you said, the super seals are famous for that. This is how the housing came out of my car. Less than 1k miles, using premix AND the OMP on only 12psi. Two of the seals came out warped, the third came out warped and missi a chunk. Corner seal and piece of apex flew out thru the turbo, but lucky me there was no damage to turbo. I'll never use these things again!! Had housings redone by Goopy and they came back good as new!

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

^ for what is worth, my housings came out just like that, except that i was using the regular RA seals...

NO OMP, premix 1oz per 1 gal, pig rich tune

Olle_L

My housings was exacly as before i rebuilt my engine last time i took it apart. It had done 1243 miles over one season with alot of dragracing and trackdriving. And i used the RA classics. This was on OEM twin turbos and 340 hp. No premix and only the OMP.

In fact the housings and the seals was in such great condition that i reused them again when i went single turbo and is now on my second season after that second rebuild/single turbo convertion. In the second rebuild i didnt change any of the seals, just one rotor that had imploded and cracked under one of the apex seals. Now i am premixing at a 1,5% ratio to fuel with good old outboard TCW-3 two stroke oil. And this is for a setup around 500 hp, pushing only at the track thees days so the engine sees only high revs and alot of boost all the time. So this is the third season in a row with the same set of RA Classics.

Maby im lucky? I dont know. I just know that i premix alot and it seems like the engine likes it.

//Olle

Olle_L

Btw: 1oz/1 gal would be 0,79% premix to fuel. I would say that´s a little bit too little?

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Like you said you only had 1k miles. At 1k miles it should just be getting off or still in break in especially with used housings and new seals. So either you didnt let it break in properly or there is some other issue. Ra classics do not eat housings when used with a good spec built engine and a good break in period. Most my motors are are broke in around 700-800miles.

Air filter also makes a huge difference. There are wet and dry style filters out there. Ive seen too many engines (rotary and piston) where the customer blames the builder for a engine that they built.
A wet filter has to be lubricated or it will allow dirt to enter the engine.



This is just my input. Ive built several motors and many friends have built their motors with these seals with no issues.

I hear the nrs seals are great. I also hear mazdas two piece seals are really nice as well. To each its own goodluck.
nate-

Gorilla RE

iTrader: (1)

This thread goes to show that no matter how "big" and "professional" your shop is, it doesn't mean your not ignorant and cocky. True knowledge and honesty apparently don't exist any more.

-J

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Thats because it seems now days people know everything whether its tuning, engine building, fabricating ect.. Kinda sad really.
GorillaRE what is your take on his engine failure?

-stig-

I've seen scratches like that in many engines, with different types of seals, all from OEM, atkins, RA to ceramic ones.

common for all them engines is that they have run a bit hot on the EGTs, a few have had extreme combustion temps as the AI have failed or just like in this case, the AI did not deliver enough water to cool the combustion. this will warp seals to, so no big suprice...

dont blame the seal alone, thats just plain stupid.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Most of the nozzels are only misting. The design of the nozzels threading affects how it can be used.

I'm just starting to experiment with spraying some water into the turbo through the filter. See post #49 of my filter setup.
What is needed for pre-turbo are nozzels with finer spray or "fogging".
For those of you using water and air paint nozzels, this will not apply to you.

I am currently researching fogging nozzels like:
http://www.koolfog.com/fog-effect-machines/nozzles/

http://www.coldfog.com/why-ruby-orifice-nozzles-.php

http://www.bete.com/products/pj.html

which can be used for this type of mounting that I am using.

Anyone have any experinece with them?

tom94RX-7

iTrader: (5)

Thanks, I have not looked into any better nozzles like those but I definitely will.

I'm waiting a bit longer before I buy everything I need and rebuild the engine.