Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

i have run methanol as an injectant. 'love it.

others have had success w water.

i expect to be ontrack in 2010 and will run afoul of the tech guys if i am running a flammable substance in my Jaz 4 gallon cell which is located in the cockpit. (spare tire well).

in addition to running afoul i could extinguish myself should the container rupture.

as i understand it, a 50/50 mixture of water methanol will not burn.

my question is (and i have searched a bit)... how much meth (%) can be run w water until it is flammable?

i realise it won't be too hard to answer this thru experimentation but it is 7 out today and i am curious.

thanks,

howard

David H

its about 34% before its flammable.

David H

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alco...ta_sheet.shtml


3 - PHYSICAL DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOILING POINT: 65 C ( 149 F) VAPOR PRESSURE(MM HG): 96
MELTING POINT: -98 C ( -144 F) VAPOR DENSITY(AIR=1): 1.11
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0.79 EVAPORATION RATE: 4.6
(H2O=1) (BUTYL ACETATE=1)
SOLUBILITY(H2O): COMPLETE (IN ALL PROPORTIONS) % VOLATILES BY VOLUME: 100
APPEARANCE & ODOR: CLEAR, COLORLESS LIQUID WITH CHARACTERISTIC PUNGENT ODOR.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 - FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD DATA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLASH POINT (CLOSED CUP 12 C ( 54 F) NFPA 704M RATING: 1-3-0
FLAMMABLE LIMITS: UPPER - 36.0 % LOWER - 6.0 %
FIRE EXTINGUISHING MEDIA
USE ALCOHOL FOAM, DRY CHEMICAL OR CARBON DIOXIDE.
(WATER MAY BE INEFFECTIVE.)
SPECIAL FIRE-FIGHTING PROCEDURES
FIREFIGHTERS SHOULD WEAR PROPER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND SELF-CONTAINED
BREATHING APPARATUS WITH FULL FACEPIECE OPERATED IN POSITIVE PRESSURE MODE.
MOVE CONTAINERS FROM FIRE AREA IF IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT RISK. USE WATER
TO KEEP FIRE-EXPOSED CONTAINERS COOL.
UNUSUAL FIRE & EXPLOSION HAZARDS
VAPORS MAY FLOW ALONG SURFACES TO DISTANT IGNITION SOURCES AND FLASH BACK.
CLOSED CONTAINERS EXPOSED TO HEAT MAY EXPLODE. CONTACT WITH STRONG
OXIDIZERS MAY CAUSE FIRE.
BURNS WITH A CLEAR, ALMOST INVISIBLE FLAME.
TOXIC GASES PRODUCED
CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE, FORMALDEHYDE

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

thanks for the help however i was under the impression that a 50/50 mix would not ignite?

i do think this is valuable to know where the line is as i plan to add water to my meth for the tech inspectors and my own safety.

i did a fair amount of searching and had no problem finding the data posted above which, i believe, doesn't answer the question.

i may just end up doing some experimenting.

howard

David H

experimenting is good as you can see your not likely to get too many technical answers on the forum.

Here is another that you would have no trouble to find. Seems like a nice paper.

http://www.che.sc.edu/faculty/weidne...H_Solution.pdf

here is the material data sheet from methanol.org.

http://www.methanol.org/pdfFrame.cfm...thanolMSDS.pdf



Flash Point: .................................................5 2o F, closed cup
Lower Flammable Limit: ............................6.0 % Volume in Air
Upper Flammable Limit:.............................36.5 % Volume in Air
Autoignition Temperature:..........................725o F, 385o C

General Information: Methanol is extremely flammable! This material releases vapors at
or below ambient temperatures. When mixed with air this substance can burn in the open
or explode in confined space conditions. Methanol vapors are heavier than air and may
travel long distances along the ground before reaching a point of ignition and flashing
back. Methanol-water mixtures containing as little as 21% methanol by volume (25% by
weight) are also flammable liquids. Methanol fires may not be visible to the naked eye
during daylight.

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

I know 75% meth definitely burns, that's what I currently run. However, It definitely has to do with the temperature. I remember once (accidentally) throwing windshield washer fluid -summer flavour- on a fire, and man did it go up in a blaze, lost an eyebrow on that incident. however, throw a match on a puddle of it on the ground, not likely.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

thanks for the replies.

i think this is a valuable area to explore and one way or the other will get to the answers.

hc

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Can i ask, why not just run 100% water?

pmrobert

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...ter-d_987.html

Try this!

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

I'm thinking that may be the only solution for legally tracking a car. I know NHRA won't allow methanol in any concentration be used as an auxiliary injected fuel. I'm just not sure I trust my tuning skillz to run only water on pump. (we have shitty pump fuel, 91 octane ron + mon/2)

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

Water is more effective at killing knock them any methanol/water mix or straight meth etc.

Run the correct amount of water and you can run even 91 octane fuel with no issues what so ever.

Trots*88TII-AE*

iTrader: (11)

But I is scared. What kind of timing numbers do you run on water, I know on your 700whp tune, you were running only a few degrees advance at 32 psi, but what about 25 psi?

rx72c

iTrader: (8)

I run 4 degrees on the pulley at 26psi.

2 degrees at 32psi+.

You dont need a huge amount of timing to make power if your ignition is strong.

Sandro

iTrader: (1)

Found this paper with good information

http://www.methanex.com/products/doc...SH_english.pdf

Excerpts:

"...Solutions of methanol containing up to 74% water are classified by NFPA as flammable..."

"...In addition to its cooling effect, water can be effective by diluting methanol to the point where it is no longer flammable. The amount of water required will be three to four times the volume of methanol..."

- Sandro

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

thanks Sandro, that's probably the deal.

FYI, i will be doing a back to back comparison of 100% meth versus water in March.

hc

Sandro

iTrader: (1)

That will be very interesting and the results extremely valuable.

- Sandro