AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

I've read Howards posts and he is right. I have an Rx7 that makes about 600HP but only on C16, I drive the car around town etc and cannot use C16 all the time so I'm going to install a AI kit. I guess I am one of the last ones to get water injection! I've spent the past few days reading all the posts on here to get more familiar with everthing but have a few questions. I was going to go with the FJO setup but I've decided to go with Cooling Mist since I see how willing they are to help on here. Here are my questions.

1. I'm currently running 30-35psi on C16. I stay at 10-13 psi on the street. With AI, running methanol, what would be the boost limit that I can run safely on pump and AI, I was thinking 20-25psi? I read somewhere that anything over 20-25 psi the nozzle flow slows down?

2. Can you guys on here that have your kits installed tell me what's the highest boost you are running. It seems only Howard is running about 25psi but not sure what the last update is.

3. Are the new pumps / injectors on the Cooling mist setup able to run 100% methanol all the time? I know that some units use all brass fittings etc but was not sure about the current cooling mist setups.

4. I am strictly looking to run 20-25psi safely. I have 4x1600 cc injectors so I have enough fuel, would you advise to run water or methanol or a mix?

Thanks for the assistance. Sorry for the lengthy questions!

Anthony

slo

iTrader: (1)

My 2c, the cooling mist pump should be fine for 100% meth all the time, they advertise it as being so and the seal material is fully compatible with methanol, I am now doing 100% methanol on coolin g mist parts (well actually 98% methanol 2% meth compatible premix.)

from what i am seeing so far it is best to get the methanol started in at low boost ramp up fairly early, and alter your fuel maps to suit the change.

This will take a large container, like 4+ gallons, that way your not filling up all the time, for 600 HP you would probably want 2 10 LB nozzels at least.

with the meth injection you can get rid of your intercooler.

coolingmist

Anthony,

I am greatful you are considering our product. Let me do my best to help you. I hope some others can help you as far as how much boost you can run. I will respond below the best I can.



Each pound of boost that you run will be one less pound of pressure in your pump. If you have for example 130 NET PSI going into your engine and you are running 20 PSI, you will net 110 PSI. Its just the way it works. As far as how much you can run, I hope others with high boost applications can jump and let you know what they are running. I certainly know of guys running 30 PSI, but everyone has different tuning, mods, etc.

If you get our progressive kit it will increase flow as boost increases.

I will leave this for others to answer as I have the stock twins.

Our entire kit is 100% methanol safe. All of our seals are EPDM. Our fittings are nickel plated, however brass is compatible with methanol (regardless of what some would have you to believe).

If you ask 10 people, you will get 10 different answers. I prefer a 50/50 MIX. Water is exceptional for preventing detonation. I know for a fact that people have success running 100% meth as well as 50/50. I believe ZINX has a 500 HP rxy and has our kit, I dont know what hix mixture is. Radkins runs our kit as well as others. Maybe they can jump in with experience.

Hope my answers helped, if only a little.

David

IAN

iTrader: (3)

I am no expert but from what I've read suggests that running methanol you can expect to run 30 to 50% increase in boost pressure above you max pump gas boost setting.

So in my case I can run 15psi on pump fuel so I am expecting, once installed 20psi is in at the least. (I'm going with 50/50mix)

I'm looking forward to seeing what others think.


Ian

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

Hi Anthony and welcome to the AI section and AI. first off, congratulations on what you have already accomplished to date.

i certainly don't have all the answers but there are lots of rotaries running AI and collectively we will get it dialed.

just a few initial comments:

there really has been a huge breakthrough in AI in the last year or so. prior to the new architecture it was nozzles and delivery volume was controlled by pumpspeed. control referenced off boost.

a few problems:

if you make target/peak boost at 4500 the injectant will be the same volume as at 6200 peak torque and the same at 8000. obviously you use less fuel at 4500 at, say 25 psi, than at peak torque, and you use less fuel at 8000 due to the VE decreasing. so the old systems didn't reference RPM. ooops.

secondly for road racers who are constantly pedaling their cars in a turn or drag racers that do have to get on and off the gas the pump just can't keep up with the boost variations.

inspite of this the earlier systems worked pretty well, especially for drag racing where you are generally pedal to the metal.

the new systems are entirely different.

instead of nozzles they run fuel injectors... sometimes referred to as solenoids.

the pump's job is just to provide pressure and the fuel injector is directed similar to how you direct base fuel. you set it up off a X and Y grid map with 150 or so cells. generally boost is the vert axis and RPM is horizontal.

to my knowledge 3 companies now offer such a system: Aquamist, Coolingmist and FJO.

i have run my Alkycontrol system for two seasons... around 10,000 miles. i did 3 dyno sessions in 07 and only got to 15.8 psi as we ran into a few modest problems. i chose to deal with them rather than cranking up the boost. no problems related to the alcohol. i made 364 ft pounds of Tq at 15.8 psi.

i run 100% methanol. i have replaced about 25% of my base fuel with meth. it starts spraying at 8 psi. when it sprays my knock goes to under 10 on a PFC. the engine loves it. my UIM is really cold to the touch after a typical 2000 to 8000 4th gear run.

i have replaced my Alkycontrol system with the new generation FJO system that will be generally available in March. i will be on the dyno in March and of course will report back on my tuning thread in this section.

alcohol is magic.

good luck,

howard

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Thank you all for the responses. I'll post an update after installation.

Anthony

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Are there systems that use an injector rather than a nozzle, where the pump stays on all the time and pressurizes the system. The reason I am asking is because I have a TEC3 that has outputs to control an injector so I would not need to tuning software from the AI kit.

From what I have been reading, most kits come with a nozzle and the amount of fluid injected is controlled by the pump turning on an off rather than a nozzle opening and closing.

Thanks,

Anthony

coolingmist

This one has the pump at 100% dutycycle, it opens and closes the valve very fast. Actually it flexes the valve.
<4 ms response time. 100% methanol compatiable.


You will not find a kit that uses a fuel injector on the market.

http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...d=varicoolshsv


David

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

David

Wow that was fast, I edited my question and then realized there was already an answer! Thanks for answering the questions when I called. My boost is between 30 - 35psi but plan on going up to 38psi max. Do you think I really need the hi-boost version of your systems. I am just going to be using the system for cooling and not adding methanol for air fuel ratio. So am I reading too much into this, what do you recommend?

Thanks

Anthony

coolingmist

You will definately want the 1-30 PSI controller. It can read 1-30, but you can run upto 50 PSI into. This just means that by 30 PSI the unit must be at full flow. For example, If you set the MIN to 15 and the max at 30, you will be at full flow by 30, after 30 it will be at full flow.

If you want it to come on at max at 38, you will need our 4-120 psi controller.

Depending on your flow requirements you may need to add a 2nd S-HSV valve. If you need 10 GPH or less, the kit as shown will work great. If you need more than 10 GPH but less than 20, you need to add a 2nd valve assembley.

of course you are always welcome. You can call me at 888-MORE-HPW, 770.416.1041 if you want to talk about it. We are open for the next 4 hours. No obligation to buy, but I can talk to you about it.

david

IAN

iTrader: (3)

The FJO kit works like a fuel injector and the pump is constant. I believe they were the first system to incorporate such an idea.

I hope it was the right system for me because I will be using the solenoid attached to my PWM DC generic output driven by the E8.

Coolingmist offers fantastic service from what I see. No other company is offering online help!

coolingmist

Thanks for the compliment IAN.

Keep in mind that Anthony was asking about a kit that uses a fuel injector. The FJO kit does not use fuel injectors, it uses a solenoid and a nozzle. We use a solenoid and a nozzle as well.

Both the FJO kit and our kit is capable of using multiple inputs in a grid (we can use 3 inputs).

I dont know how fast the FJO kit is because I dont have one and Have not tested it, but our solenoid is much smaller and is a true solenoid that can take a PWM signal. It would be difficult to find a faster solenoid than ours.

David

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Does intake pressure affect flow? Let's say you're using the cooling mist kit that has max flow at 30psi. At 30psi you get X amount of methanol/water, at 40psi do you get the same amount or does that 10 extra psi limit the amount of meth/water that can come out of the nozzle?

Thanks,

Anthony

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

intake pressure effects flow.

that does not necessarily mean you can't have more injectant at 38 than 30 psi.

total injectant delivery may be controlled by dialing in more duty cycle. i am not familiar w Coolingmist's setup but on my FJO there is a 16 X16 grid, 256 cells that are situated using RPM and boost. you simply set your boost and RPM on the margins and fill in the desired duty cycle for the injectors (or solenoids if you prefer). so you set more duty cycle at 38 than 30 if you wish.

i am running two 700 CC/Min injectors. FJO also offers 900 and a bunch of smaller sizes.

so, yes, you are correct that as your boost pressure rises it requires adjustments within the system to add injectant but this is easily accomplished.

i imagine Coolingmist offers a similar arrangement.

howard

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Howard/Guys, thanks for your help.

I ended up going with the Cooling Mist kit. Since I'm using for high boost areas, I have the simple kit with the boost sensor solenoid that's either on or off. This weekend I raised the boost and with the 50/50 mix the Rx7 went 10.32@139MPH. Just an update...

I'll be heading back to the track since the car has a lot left in it and may go low low 10s high 9s if I get a better 60ft and shifting...

Anthony

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Anthony, you're still running C16 right?

slo

iTrader: (1)

Edit: never mind

adunlap

iTrader: (2)

Seems everybody thinks their AI kit is the best for X reasons. It depends on your tuner, how much you want to spend, and what you plan to use it for. Any kit is good enough to supplement an already well tuned car and will give you 30-50detonation free horsepower.
The more alky or water you need to add to reach higher boost #s, the more reliable the system needs to be.
Having said that...I run 24-25psi on an alkycontrol pure methanol system.

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Yup, still running C16.