Cooling mist S-HSV installed and working off haltech PWM
03-17-08, 11:05 PM
#26
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I have 2 S-HSV set-up with my Haltech E8 and am running the same frequency and staging at around 35% duty cycle.
So, dual valve set-up on a single channel and having no problems yet....
Thanks slo and David (coolingmist) for making my install and set-up a breeze.
So, dual valve set-up on a single channel and having no problems yet....
Thanks slo and David (coolingmist) for making my install and set-up a breeze.
03-23-08, 12:24 AM
#28
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Thanks, than info may well help...
For my initial test, tune I will be starting at 35% duty cycle at 2PSI and increasing in a linear fashion up to 80% duty cycle at 15PSI, for those not farmiliar the haltech generic PWM load/duty cycle output is a 32 x 32 3D map controlling duty cycle percentage on one axis based on RPM and load (boost pressure) on the other 2 axis's. Since a rotary engine has a fairly flat VE curve which varies pretty much only on load after about 3000 RPM this should give a pretty good initial tune. I am keeping the map nearly flat across the RPM axis with just a little more water/meth near the peak torque rpm.
For my initial test, tune I will be starting at 35% duty cycle at 2PSI and increasing in a linear fashion up to 80% duty cycle at 15PSI, for those not farmiliar the haltech generic PWM load/duty cycle output is a 32 x 32 3D map controlling duty cycle percentage on one axis based on RPM and load (boost pressure) on the other 2 axis's. Since a rotary engine has a fairly flat VE curve which varies pretty much only on load after about 3000 RPM this should give a pretty good initial tune. I am keeping the map nearly flat across the RPM axis with just a little more water/meth near the peak torque rpm.
I've developed a spreadsheet based on fuel injector pulse widths that will estimate your AI injector pulse widths. It does not take into account the secondaries you rotary folks use, but it does plot out very well.
03-23-08, 12:52 AM
#29
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ah, so basically your converting fuel injection pulse width and rpm into duty cycle.
Is that correct.
Since a rotary engine fires each cylinder (and consequently each injector at least in seq injection mode) once per revolution, where a piston engine other than a 2 stroke fires twice, you would also have to double the calculated duty cycle.
This could be a helpful tool
Is that correct.
Since a rotary engine fires each cylinder (and consequently each injector at least in seq injection mode) once per revolution, where a piston engine other than a 2 stroke fires twice, you would also have to double the calculated duty cycle.
This could be a helpful tool
I have a Wolf V500 that I am using to PWM control my FJO Racing HSV. It has a similar MAP for PWM controllered auxiliary channels.
I've developed a spreadsheet based on fuel injector pulse widths that will estimate your AI injector pulse widths. It does not take into account the secondaries you rotary folks use, but it does plot out very well.
I've developed a spreadsheet based on fuel injector pulse widths that will estimate your AI injector pulse widths. It does not take into account the secondaries you rotary folks use, but it does plot out very well.
03-23-08, 08:57 PM
#31
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No a four stroke piston engine fires each piston once per 2 revolutions.
Therefore in sequential mode it would have half the duty cycle of a rotary at the same injection time.
Therefore in sequential mode it would have half the duty cycle of a rotary at the same injection time.
03-23-08, 09:05 PM
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Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you said a rotary fired every other revolution.
As for my spreadsheet, it calculates meth quantity based on your fueling IPW as percentages across your EMS MAP band. For Wolf, this is 16 bands from 0 to 107% ranging from -14.7 at 0% up to your max boost as you define it or up to 2 bar gage.
I set my spray to only come on under load, then set the first few bands below 10 psi at 5% linear increases up to 20% at 10 psi. The reason I tied it to the IPW is because my VE is not quite as linear as yours and there is a definite "peak" fueling at peak torque and then drops off.
Duty cycle is calculated the same way as for injectors, the length of the injector being open over one complete engine cycle. The primary difference is that the meth spray requirement is based on, in my case, 6 injectors.
After a discussion with FJO they made a very poignant but simple statement: you know if your calcs are correct and injector sized correctly, if for your horsepower application the duty cycle of the meth injector is close to that for your fuel injectors.
In my case, they are in very close agreement.
As for my spreadsheet, it calculates meth quantity based on your fueling IPW as percentages across your EMS MAP band. For Wolf, this is 16 bands from 0 to 107% ranging from -14.7 at 0% up to your max boost as you define it or up to 2 bar gage.
I set my spray to only come on under load, then set the first few bands below 10 psi at 5% linear increases up to 20% at 10 psi. The reason I tied it to the IPW is because my VE is not quite as linear as yours and there is a definite "peak" fueling at peak torque and then drops off.
Duty cycle is calculated the same way as for injectors, the length of the injector being open over one complete engine cycle. The primary difference is that the meth spray requirement is based on, in my case, 6 injectors.
After a discussion with FJO they made a very poignant but simple statement: you know if your calcs are correct and injector sized correctly, if for your horsepower application the duty cycle of the meth injector is close to that for your fuel injectors.
In my case, they are in very close agreement.
03-23-08, 09:24 PM
#33
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This makes sense I believe the haltech works a little different that what your describing of the wolf. Ive never seen a wolf box so I could be off on this.
For a Haltech there is a 32 x 32 map with load on one axis and rpm on the other. In which you enter actual PW in MS.
Any PWM valve (far more so than a sequential fuel injector, because of the non varying freq) will have a curve in its liquid delivery from lowest to highest DC.
I can totally buy linear relationship (with corection for the delivery curve if required) between injector DC and HSV, but don't think they should necessarily match.
I'm in favor of working out a given amount of meth for given flow, say a constant 15% of fuel volume beyond a cut on point and then doing the real tuning with the fuel maps.
As long as the actual amount of meth is close to that 15% there is no need to have it spot on because the mixtures are being fine tuned in the fuel.
For a Haltech there is a 32 x 32 map with load on one axis and rpm on the other. In which you enter actual PW in MS.
Any PWM valve (far more so than a sequential fuel injector, because of the non varying freq) will have a curve in its liquid delivery from lowest to highest DC.
I can totally buy linear relationship (with corection for the delivery curve if required) between injector DC and HSV, but don't think they should necessarily match.
I'm in favor of working out a given amount of meth for given flow, say a constant 15% of fuel volume beyond a cut on point and then doing the real tuning with the fuel maps.
As long as the actual amount of meth is close to that 15% there is no need to have it spot on because the mixtures are being fine tuned in the fuel.
Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you said a rotary fired every other revolution.
As for my spreadsheet, it calculates meth quantity based on your fueling IPW as percentages across your EMS MAP band. For Wolf, this is 16 bands from 0 to 107% ranging from -14.7 at 0% up to your max boost as you define it or up to 2 bar gage.
I set my spray to only come on under load, then set the first few bands below 10 psi at 5% linear increases up to 20% at 10 psi. The reason I tied it to the IPW is because my VE is not quite as linear as yours and there is a definite "peak" fueling at peak torque and then drops off.
Duty cycle is calculated the same way as for injectors, the length of the injector being open over one complete engine cycle. The primary difference is that the meth spray requirement is based on, in my case, 6 injectors.
After a discussion with FJO they made a very poignant but simple statement: you know if your calcs are correct and injector sized correctly, if for your horsepower application the duty cycle of the meth injector is close to that for your fuel injectors.
In my case, they are in very close agreement.
As for my spreadsheet, it calculates meth quantity based on your fueling IPW as percentages across your EMS MAP band. For Wolf, this is 16 bands from 0 to 107% ranging from -14.7 at 0% up to your max boost as you define it or up to 2 bar gage.
I set my spray to only come on under load, then set the first few bands below 10 psi at 5% linear increases up to 20% at 10 psi. The reason I tied it to the IPW is because my VE is not quite as linear as yours and there is a definite "peak" fueling at peak torque and then drops off.
Duty cycle is calculated the same way as for injectors, the length of the injector being open over one complete engine cycle. The primary difference is that the meth spray requirement is based on, in my case, 6 injectors.
After a discussion with FJO they made a very poignant but simple statement: you know if your calcs are correct and injector sized correctly, if for your horsepower application the duty cycle of the meth injector is close to that for your fuel injectors.
In my case, they are in very close agreement.
03-23-08, 09:37 PM
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This makes sense I believe the haltech works a little different that what your describing of the wolf. Ive never seen a wolf box so I could be off on this.
For a Haltech there is a 32 x 32 map with load on one axis and rpm on the other. In which you enter actual PW in MS.
Any PWM valve (far more so than a sequential fuel injector, because of the non varying freq) will have a curve in its liquid delivery from lowest to highest DC.
I can totally buy linear relationship (with corection for the delivery curve if required) between injector DC and HSV, but don't think they should necessarily match.
I'm in favor of working out a given amount of meth for given flow, say a constant 15% of fuel volume beyond a cut on point and then doing the real tuning with the fuel maps.
As long as the actual amount of meth is close to that 15% there is no need to have it spot on because the mixtures are being fine tuned in the fuel.
For a Haltech there is a 32 x 32 map with load on one axis and rpm on the other. In which you enter actual PW in MS.
Any PWM valve (far more so than a sequential fuel injector, because of the non varying freq) will have a curve in its liquid delivery from lowest to highest DC.
I can totally buy linear relationship (with corection for the delivery curve if required) between injector DC and HSV, but don't think they should necessarily match.
I'm in favor of working out a given amount of meth for given flow, say a constant 15% of fuel volume beyond a cut on point and then doing the real tuning with the fuel maps.
As long as the actual amount of meth is close to that 15% there is no need to have it spot on because the mixtures are being fine tuned in the fuel.
I am only using this spreadsheet to give me an idea of what my meth injector DCs are for a given meth replacement percentage across load and RPM. I am also calculating DC's of the meth injector since I am using a USER DEFINED PWM auxiliary channel that I can set my axes to be whatever I want (RPM, load, boost, vacuum, you name it).
These DCs get me close to my goal. I do my actual final adjustments while tuning on the road and/or dyno.
The relationship between injector DC and HSV only holds if your power levels are matched correctly to your HSV. An HSV that flows too much for your HP levels will have low DCs compared to your fuel injectors; an HSV not flowing enough will be maxed out.
Wolf controls the fuel injectors by inputting pulse widths directly like Haltech. I greatly prefer that arrangement. However, I also have 7 auxiliary channels that are PWM capable in addition to another 10 channels that I can do anything with.
03-23-08, 09:49 PM
#35
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Thats cool, the haltech's mapped out's are only load vs RPM. Never had a reason to want anything else.
Load on a turbo car is of course manifold pressure, which is boost or vaccum.
Load on a turbo car is of course manifold pressure, which is boost or vaccum.
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