Richard L

Design aim of the HFS-5 water/methanol injection system:
In order to maximize of effect of water/methanol injection, the rate of delivery should be closely related to the real time engine operating parameters. The first objective is finding a signal that is comparable to the engine’s cooling/octane demand at the exact moment in time.

Finding the signal to match engine’s demand:
Load sensors such as throttle position, mass air flow and MAP sensor are a prime signal source of engine load. But without RPM reference, these sensor are only representing a two dimensional impression. For example, MAF sensor without RPM reference only measures air consumption, regardless of gearing or boost pressure. The engine could be cruising at high speed (less stress) or it can be travelling at 20mph on a rally stage under extreme load and high temperature stress. The same chuck of MAF signal cannot represent the engine’s running condition overall.

Why tracking fuel injector duty cycle:
With the help of the modern engine management system, the same chunk of MAF signal, coupled up with a bunch of signals gathered from sensors such as ‘air temperature’, ‘coolant temperature’ and ‘EGT’ (interpreting the lambda probe’s heater element) and of course, engine speed. It will make an informed judgment when to add or trim fuel depending on the real-time operating environments. The final decision made by the management will be reflected by the duty cycle of the fuel injector. The HFS-5 uses this IDC signal to meter flow.

Picking the correct delivery method and hardware to complete the task:
We have ruled out the variable pump-speed delivery system for a numbers of reasons. Due to the inertia of the rotating mass, variable pump-speed system is not responsive to the fast changing engine load at various throttle openings and engine speed changes, especially during gear shifts. Flow range is narrow due to limited pressure span. It requires 4x the pressure change to produce twice the flow change. Poor atomisation and pulsating line pressure at low pump speed is an inherent characteristic of such a system. Without consistent droplet size is vital to inlet cooling and even cylinder distribution, one will always tune for cylinder receiving the least cooling, resulting over-injection on other cylinders.

HFS-5 chooses the well established method for fluid delivery:
Decision was made to employ the ‘tried and tested’ delivery system similar to a fuel injection system to meter fluid flow. A 150W heavy duty pump is made specially for us by Shurflo USA. Equipped with three 125psi internal by-pass valves provides the regulated system pressure. A surge arrestor/accumulator refines the low-ripple further. A high-speed stainless inline valve completes the line up. This valve is capable of flow over a litre of fluid at 125psi. A dedicated controller reads the fuel injector’s duty cycle % and channels it to the inline valve.

A dash gauge displays the flow information from a digital turbine flow sensor:
Failsafe is serviced by the Aquamist’s proven DDS3 module, which is designed to go further then just detect clogged jet/nozzle and cut hose…..this device can give visual feedback on a partially clogged jet/nozzle. Two switched outputs provide the necessary interface with device such as boost control valve and map switch equipped engine controllers.

HFS-5 meets all criteria of a reliable and highly precise fluid delivery system:
We believe the HFS-5 is the only fluid delivery system that meets the minimum requirement for achieving full integration into your tuning programme, with absolute precision. Tracking the fuel delivery is the most reliable method to meter your water/methanol flow accurately under the whole engine operating range. Anything short of this means having to tailor your fuel map to compensate the irregular fluid quantity ingested by the engine.
Should you decided not to mirror the fuel flow in your future upgrade programme, the HFS-5 system can read a PWM output from a third party engine management controller so a custom water/methanol map can be created.

This one-time offer is a rare opportunity of a life time for you to try out this professional system at a very affordable price. Jack, our US representative will be hosting this offer.

.

We will be posting the pricing details and the link to the introductory offer next week here.

Richard L

Introductory offer read the following link for instruction to the group buy session:

dis1

The link doesn't work. I'm interested though.

Richard L

My apologises, the thread has been moved to another location and I forgot to correct it.

Here it is again:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324730

calculon

iTrader: (29)

could you please elaborate on the Injector Duty summation?

chiefly what i'm wondering is, how can we tell it what size of injectors we're using for our primaries and our secondaries? for example, i'm wanting to run water through my GT42R 20B which has 6x1680cc injectors. how could I tell your controller that i have 6x1680 as opposed to 3x550 and 3x1680 or any other configuration for that matter?

thanks for pioneering this awesome technology for us. i look forward to implementing this system on my car.

ryan

calculon

iTrader: (29)

sorry for now posing all of my questions in a single post, but as I did more research, I found more questions.

in your description of this product, you mention that the system can deliver up to a liter of fluid. i presume that you mean 1 L/min. this being the case, your gauge and associated flow sensor have a maximum flow rate of 450 mL/min. are these sensors able to be calibrated outside of this flow range, or are they less accurate outside of this? what is your solution to this situation for those of us wishing to have higher flow rates?

thanks again

ryan

Richard L

Hello big rizzlah,
Ryan,

1) The summer has three dials: channel 1, channel 2 and output gain.

- You set dial-1 to match you primary injector size - between 550-1350cc/min (18-click dial)
- Set the dial-2 to match your secondary injetcor size: 850-1650cc/min. (18-click dial)
- You can set dial-3 to amplify the summed value: 1x to 3x
( that is all)

2) There are two inputs, ch1 and ch2.
- Wire in the relevent input to the appropriate pulsed side of the fuel injector.

3) One output (gain):
Summer output in 0-5V, 1V = 1000cc/min.

Since there are only two channels on the RX7, adding multiple injectors requires you to dial in the appropriate amplification factor.

This is how it works for the time being. If you can think of any other improvements, let me know. I will try to add them in before the final design.

Richard

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

richard,

as you may know, modified RX7s often run 2 850 cc/min primaries and 2 1600 secondaries for an approximate total of 4900 cc/minute.

i have found that my motor is quite happy w the base fuel map scaled down 20% and the balance replaced w alcohol.... methanol.

so if we are at 90% IDC using 4400 cc/min of pump and we want to remove 20% and replace it w alcohol we would be looking to use approx 1000 cc/minute of alcohol. perhaps a bit more.

AQ now has the pump. the question is will the HSV flow enough alcohol.

additionally, what about your flow meter? if i routinely flow 1000-1200 cc/minute of alcohol will that be out of adjustable range as far as the DDS3V8 safeguard?

thanks, and i look forward to using your advanced design system,

howard coleman

Richard L

In those cases, we will just turn up the system pressure to 150psi (stronger by-pass springs), the HSV will then flow 1300cc/min.

Alternative running two HSVs. The pump is capable of flowing over 2 litres per minute.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

o k so the delivery w one HSV is covered.

what about the flow meter being in range at that delivery rate. is it adjustable so it will work at slightly over 1000 cc/min?

thanks,

howard coleman

Richard L

I have not tested the sensor beyond one litre per minute since I never think people will ever ask. Howard, it will be done tested ASAP.

Richard

calculon

iTrader: (29)

so i'm still a little unclear on how the system works exactly...

i've already joined in this group buy, but i want to make sure that if i need to order more stuff along with it, i do it all upfront.

my case is (after i swap out my primaries)

3-rotor with

3x 850cc primaries

3x 1680cc secondaries

the way i understand it,

1)i will splice in the input to the summer from one injector from the primary and one from the secondary.

2)i will turn dial 1 and 2 to match the injector size appropriately.

3)i turn the gain to 3 since i have 3 of each primary and secondary injector??????

you said that the output (gain) is 0-5V (1V=1000cc)

is this 1V=1000cc of fuel?

i will potentially be running more than that given the extra rotor. can you please help me understand how the system works, and what all i will require form my 3-rotor? if you think that it would be easier to clear up over the phone, i'd be more than happy to PM you my phone number.

thanks
ryan

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

ryan,

to help richard...

what will you be running as AI injectant? if a mix what ratio? if 100% meth how much base fuel are you planning to withdraw?

my guess is there will be no problem as to the pump but there could be a problem w the DD3 having not enough upside in it's "normal" range.

what boost?

what max hp target?

thnx,

hc

calculon

iTrader: (29)

initially, i'll be running water. the only reason i'm not running meth or a mix, is i live in albuquerque, new mexico, and there is just no source for me to get reliable quality products that i know of. if you know otherwise, i'd be happy (more than happy actually) to use some methanol.

i'm running a GT42R on a 20B with stock ports (for now) and am looking to run 10psi on pure pump, and up to 25 psi (maybe 30 on rare occassions if i become confident enough in the system) with AI.

for regular weekend driving, i'll be looking for 400ish rwhp, which by my research, is about 10psi with my setup. for this case, the AI will just be some added safety margin. everynow and then, i'd like to shoot for 600ish rwhp, of course counting on AI. way down the road, i'm looking for 850 rwhp, but this isn't for A LONG time, because it'll require a rebuild and a bunch of other goodies down the road.

thanks for helping out Howard
ryan

Richard L

Richard L

Thank you howard, for helping out.

Richard L

Wow, you run a great deal of fuel. 7590 litre of fuel, capable of 1500whp.

You have understood how the summing module 100%. After the summer has calculated the fuel flow, it will turn it into PWM signal and feed it to the HFS-5 input. In you case, I will rescale the 7.590volt (7.590 litre) to 0-5V to give a 0-100% duty cycle.

Do you really use that much of fuel?

Richard

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

Richard,

ryan is running a 3 rotor and as such he can run 50% more fuel and air thru the motor than a 2 rotor.

i run the same sized injectors as ryan on my 2 rotor. they nominally make 4900 cc/min but actually are capable of 5080 cc/min as per RC engineering.

it is not unusual for a 3 rotor to make 950 rwhp and a 2 rotor to make 630 rwhp.

the key to keep in mind is that a rotary requires substantially more air and fuel V a piston engine.

a good rule of thumb is:

60 pounds per minute of turbo output makes 600 piston engine rwhp. you divide piston rwhp by 1.3 to get rotary rwhp. so the air and fuel that makes 600 piston rwhp makes 461 rotary rwhp.

so when AQ is sizing it's AI components as they relate to the rotary you need to add volume V a piston engine.

generally, most rotaries are 2 rotor and when modded w a single turbo make around 400-425 rwhp. this requires airflow of 55 pounds per minute. AFRs w AI generally are tuned to mid 11s.

as i have previously mentioned to you, i run two T04 turbos that make 84-88 pounds per minute and will tune out around 600-640 rwhp. my motor likes around 1000 to 1200 cc/minute of methanol while using approx 4200 cc/minute of pump gas.

i might be able to reduce both the pumpgas and methanol as i am a bit rich.

the above metrics are the reason for my question to you about the range of the DDS. this question is an important one for the rotary community going forward.

07 is going to be a huge year for the adoption of AI as pumpgas 500-600 rwhp dyno sheets start to appear.

we look forward to AQ being a major part of the rotary AI 07 explosion.

howard coleman

Richard L

I didn't realise rotary uses so much fuel!!

a normal 4 stroke force induced engine can make 1500BHP (not whp) at that amount of fuel. Learning something new everyday.

Richard L

I will test the DDSs's range if I go into the office during the weekend. Too much to do today.

cozmo kraemer

Well I think the system is a bit overkill for my application, but the price point on that introductory offer is irresistable so I attempted to get in on it as soon as possible. I am number 26 on the list so that is a bummer....I just hope one of those SRT-4 boys drops out so an FD can get in on the deal!!

calculon

iTrader: (29)

any clarification on the flow meters range and the scalability of the summer?

I know you're busy, and i don't want to bother you, but at the same time, if i need to order more flow meters, HSVs, nozzels, etc, I'd like to do so all at once. I'd really like to leave myself room to eventually do what Howard is doing, which will require a sizable system.

your help is greatly appreciated.

thanks
ryan

Richard L

ryan,

I still have not been to the office yet to do the test. I will be there tomorrow. I will do the test first thing. My work is mainly done outside my office due to constant interruptions. Apologise for the delay.

Pimp Hand

iTrader: (3)

Now you understand Richard why we are so easily out striping the flow capabilities of AQ’s race pump even with a booster pump.

I personally run a moderately large turbo with 850x2 cc/min & 1680x2 cc/min injectors, with a base pressure of 40 psi. I do TRY to keep the IDC under 80%, though I am getting to the point where I need to consider alternate (larger) primaries or adding injectors.


Make no mistake: to make the kind of HP we are, with a 1.3L engine requires profound amounts of fuel and air. IE a single 255L/hr pump will make around 420rwhp. Before you run out of flow, and start dropping pressure.(no A.I.)

When you approach the 500-600 mark, requires a serious fuel system. Personally I run a single 255L/hr pump to each fuel rail. With -6 lines to each rail.

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

it is very simple:

a rotary requires 30% more fuel and air to make the same hp as a piston engine.

anyone making AI systems need to know that. a rotary AI system should be capable of flowing and metering 1200-1300 cc/ minute. 20 GPH.

howard coleman