I'd like to hear what lubricants you guys use in your meth systems. I use Klots lube at 1oz/gal.

 

while i can't speak for other alcohol sytems i can tell you that i run the Alkycontrol system and Julio Don, the Guy, specifically recommends NO lube w the alcohol.

when Julio speaks i listen.

howard coleman

 

From my experience with rotary engines especially when dealing with alcohol/methanol fuel some form of lubrication is a must.
The best lubrication for these corrosive fuels would be some type of castor based oil. Both Klotz and VP Fuels have products available. When used properly corrosion is almost eliminated.

 

With 50:50 is lube necessary?

I already pre-mix my fuel...

 

chrispeed

just so i understand you... are you saying that a typical FD running pump and say 25% alcohol under boost needs lube or are you referring to a rotary running on 100% alcohol w no gasoline? BTW, i do run a bit of 2 cycle oil in my pump.

thanks,

howard

 

So, with this oil it would be possible to use steel lines, rubber lines, or fuel injectors?

 

Are you saying that the addition of a pupose made lubricant makes the aclohol less corrosive?

This makes lots of sense to me, but does the lubricant raise the flash point of the alcohol significantly I would be woried that by adding some type of lubricant, the alcohol would not cool the charge as much.

There are fuel injectors and soft lines (not sure if rubber or what?) that are compatible with alcohol allready.

 

dont forget methanol is a heavy duty degreaser. You cant mix oil in with it but you can increase the amount going in.

Scott

 

"heavy duty degreaser"

someone somewhere posted that methanol is commonly used to clean out the big (distributor) LP gas tanks.

my view is that the amount i run through my motor is probably not going to do any harm. i do realize that i really don't know and that others have differing opinions. my Alkycontrol Guy said it is his experience that the amount is modest and isn't a problem w piston engines. we know, of course, that rotaries are a bit different.

after a season of running methanol my motor posted it's highest compression readings.

i do think it could be another story if i was in boost all the time but w the hp the methanol delivers there are fewer and fewer stretches of road to put the hammer down.

i still remember a comment on the board by someone who observed the faster his car got the slower he goes as there's alot less opportunities to put the hammer down w 500 hp v 350. things happen real fast. that's why we have racetracks of course.

howard

 

I know, I'm just thinking of injectors I already have, if the lube makes it safe for use with them, it will save money, not to mention I already have 360 and 460 cc injectors I could use.

 

I have a set of 1680 cc meth and gas compatable injectors.

What I'd like to do is get a set of 1300s to use as primaries for gas only, and run the car up to about ~6 lbs of boost, off primaries only Then bring on the 1680s using ethonol or E85 as the injectant (e85 is cheap in san diego, even though there is only one station that sells it) in the injector possition of the stock secondairies. I think a system like this controlled off a single ems will be far more consistant and tuneable.

If there is premix that is alcohol compatible, that would make things a little simpler. Otherwise I will run the OMP off the haltech with the premix injection converter.

 

http://klotzlube.com/storeProdDetails.asp?pi=20

Made right here in Indiana. Almost all of the Indy car teams run it.

 

Lube is only needed for most all alky kits. smc is the only alky kit that i know of that needs lube to keep there pump worken with methanol.

everyone else uses the shurflo pump which when it has the right seals mtbe then is 100% compatible with methanol.

Now to further the discussion about cylinder wash. Most alky kits are only adding 15% extra fuel. This is no is no where near enough Mehtanol to cause cylinder wash. I would not worry about lube untill your trying to replace 50% of your fuel or more.

Yes, indy cars run lube, They also only run methanol, no gas.

 

the corrosiveness of the alcohol to the engine components doesn't seem very critical to me, granted i do dilute my methanol with water so it may be a contributor. i pulled the UIM off my car yesterday after running the system for about 3 months and over 2000 miles and it was fairly clean but there was still a bit of dried oil stuck to the intake runners so the methanol didn't even strip that off and the injector pintle caps were fine as well as the injector seals so i'm not worried about it damaging anything.

only thing that is of slight concern is the alky pump, i'm sure some lube wouldn't hurt but then again they were designed to run without any additives.

 

so if i run 80% water 20% meth, and im premixing my gas (no MOP) should i run lube? i read all the posts but i got a little confused

 

I dont run oil to fight corosion, I run it to keep the engine lubricated under boost.

 

I use KLOTZ lube for pump life on my alchy system.

 

Im runing the smc kit and steve at SMC sade you dont have to use any lube with it.

 

do you guys that premix realize that by running 20% meth and not running lube in the meth that you run 20% less lube under boost?

 

^are you running 20% meth? or 20% of 50:50?

 

I have an older SMC kit that still requires lube.

Rat

 

I've run both. Currently running 50/50

 

I use to run straight meth. in my Suzuki LT-500 (punched out to 520) 4 wheeler and I used klotz bean oil. That thing was so much fun in the sand with paddle tires......I need to get another one.

the smell of meth. and bean oil is heavenly!!

 

That is a good point. I plan on lubing just a bit despite what Julio has said (alkycontrol.com) for my own peace of mind.

(this next comment applies to people running Shurflo pumps)
Howard has been running, as he said, without lube for a whole season with no problems, and he is running a significantly more aggressive alcohol/fuel ratio than the majority of us, I would assume. That's comforting to know, seeing as his setup is just a bit more extreme than most of ours as well.

 

Be careful, Mark -- My pump died internally because of either the race fuel or because of the alcohol lube I was using. 50% chance of it.

B