I am installing my AI system. Simple AEM with Sakebomb tank (which fits damn nice) and an AEM "failsafe" flow gauge. (I like the idea of an alarm if the system has an issue, I do not expect it to save my motor however).

Upgraded twins
I have a PFC
Twin power
Fast reacting ait

1st question is how many people have kept their sensor in the uim with no issues. I have a fast reacting sensor, but a little confused why it should be moved. I get the heat soaked lean out issue. My pfc will pull fuel hence the lean out. Why wouldn't the meth prevent/compensate for that to an extent since it is fuel? Is it not enough and/or the lean out is too great? I can't really find the answer I am looking for with the search feature.

2. If the sensor is moved and I am spraying 50/50 will this not be too much fuel. I did find out a bit on this with the search, but not how much richer it will be with the added meth.

Hate to be the broken record player again, but I want to do it right!! I know one of the members on here will be pulling temps off the uim and post ic. Interested to see how it goes.

Thanks,

Terry

 

1) Most people leave it in the UIM and it works just fine. The IAT lean out you describe is a tuning problem, and your tune should be solid before you turn on the AI. In fact it's probably caused by your fast IAT sensor, and you need to change the corresponding fuel tables. The stock system was designed with a slow reacting IAT that wouldn't cause the ECU to yank lots of fuel and run you lean on a dime. You shouldn't expect AI to compensate for tuning deficiencies. It's simply a safety buffer. The intention of AI is not to change your stoich (at least not in the context of your questions, and a street car), it's to cool charge air and increase effective octane. To answer directly, the reason AI won't compensate for your ecu pulling fuel based on IAT is because your AI doesn't take IAT as a parameter, and has no idea what your PFC is doing. Would it help? Sure. Any fuel and octane will help a lean condition. And; situationally, the AI will lower your IATs which wouldn't trip the lean condition as often. But, it won't solve the root issue, which is how your tune deals with varying IATs.

2) No probably not. It depends on your tune, how the IAT adjustment tables are set, and how your AI system is sized. Again, appropriately size AI systems designed for street use won't have a drastic impact your A/F ratio at 50/50. Methanol has a richer stoich than gasoline. So adding a little meth doesn't change things as much as adding a little petrol. There's also a law of diminishing returns in play regarding the meth/water mix. Most of the good work is done before ~30% meth, IIRC. There's a cool chart floating around here recently about it.

I'd get your tune looked at. Leave your IAT in the UIM, so your ecu can see the real IATs and so you can avoid another complication/modification. For AI maybe start with straight water, and see how the car responds to higher ratios of meth.

 

Thanks for the reply. I have no tuning issue as I do not have any tune right now. She is not running. After the rebuild she will be tuned without ai. Then the ai will be used for safety. I was under the impression that no matter the tune of she is heat soaked then has a chance to go lean with the factory location of the iat. I believe people have said you get a much more accurate iat reading outside of uim since the sensor itself is not heat soaked. The air entering will obviously have no time to heat up more, nothing substantial anyway
If what you say is accurate and true then I have no issue leaving it in stock location. Less work and less clutter outside. Why even bother!!
I have also heard of people running ai 50/50 dropping a whole point on afr. Seems like a lot too me. I don't mind losing 20 hp or so off the tune so long as she is safe and increases reliability.

 

I am sure everyone knows how this tank looks, but I thought I show it off a little. I am impressed with it. Nice work Sakebomb!

 

AIT location is certainly a debatable item. In the stock location, it does get heat soaked and will read a higher temp than the actual air temp. This may be compensated in the stock ECU, but may be a factor with an aftermarket ECU. The Triumph sensor may help because it's an open element sensor and may not be "as" affected by heat soak. Best would be to discuss IAT type and location as well as AI with your tuner.

As for the SB tank, interested in what you did for the level sensor. I assume that's not the AEM sensor.

 

The level sensor is whatever Sakebomb installed. I am not sure to be honest. My tuner isnt yo familiar with ai. He is an incredible tuner though from what I understand. I will ask his opinion on relocation.

 

There will be a lot of different opinions on this, but here is what I've done without issue:

-Fast reacting (Triumph) sensor in stock UIM location.
-AI sprayed in throttle body elbow.
-Simple Coolingmist system (non-progressive) that comes on around 10psi
-Car tuned without AI and then AI added as safety measure. Car made around 10whp less with the AI on and I'm ok with that trade off.


Ran just distilled water for years, then added methanol mixtures to lower AIT's on the track compensating for too small of an intercooler. Settled on about 23% methanol mixture as the solution. I hope to go to a bigger SMIC and back to just water for simplicity and not have the car as rich under throttle.

My car sees mostly track use with 20-30 minute sessions of abuse and it's done great. I kill turbos and turbo gaskets like it's my job, but otherwise the motor and AI have been fantastic.

 

Thanks Smokey,

I will keep it in the uim. I have the triumph sensor. The one that seems to have an exposed tip (which I don't like). My tuner is already speaking about tuning with the AI. I am telling him I don't want it!! I would like the 10HP hit and still be semi conservative on the tune. I will have a fail safe gauge to dump boost, but obviously it will not act fast enough at a high rpm full boost run to save my engine.

 

I think you're on the right path. I've had my water injection stop working on track for various reasons (ran out of water, fuse blew, etc) and I just noticed that I had noticeably higher intake temps and pulled off early in the session. Since the car was tuned without it, there wasn't instant damage by the WI failure. If I had tuned for it that would have been a motor dying and been way worse than losing some power over it.

 

Yeah...I know I'm late to this party, but I don't come here that often anymore....
I have boost-activated WI on stock twins with nozzle location post IC/pre-TB. All other mods in sig. I relocated my IAT several years ago and because I'm so NOT a tuner, I left it relocated when I added WI based on this post from Howard Coleman (sticky thread circa 2007 IIRC). Never had issues...
I'm sure by now the OP has decided what to do. But figured I'd post for posterity.

 

I haven't decided yet. I got set back by a new home purchase so I appreciate your response. I was planning on not tuning the wi. You think that is a mistake. My builder I am speaking with says it probably should be tuned with a failsafe. I however am only really doing this for protection and longevity. I plan on running 12psi maybe doing a 14psi as a second d high setting. I don't mind losing 20 ish hp.if it gives me a. Ice safety margine.

 

Well, I guess I’d do what the builder suggests. Like a new car warranty compliance and he knows the car.

That said, my system is about as simple as it gets. I believe that simplicity has contributed to it being pretty much bullet-proof for the last 10 or 12 years (~ 50 k miles). I used H.C’s sticky formula to determine nozzle size too. I’m not tuned with it either. It’s just there for (a) cooling, (b) knock suppression and (c) carbon control...I pre-mix with a working OMP. I don’t even use ignition amplification and using stock plugs and heat ranges. Intuitively power probably does suffer a little. But honestly it’s never showed up on my butt-dyno.