e85 on stock, and built car - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

Alternative Fuels Discussion and Tech on using alternatives such as E85 or Hydrogen or other fuels and/or supplements to Gasoline in Rotary Engines

e85 on stock, and built car

Old 07-20-09, 05:44 AM
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e85 on stock, and built car

I been wanting to switch to e85 for a little while now. and now there is enough pumps in my area for me to do it!!!

im looking to make 470-480 WHP on my race car. but since the e85 needs 30% more fuel im not sure if my current fuel set-up will work. i have a single walbro 255 pump with 850 primary and 1600 secondary on stock fuel lines. i know i can make a little over 400 with regular 93 pump on this. but im not sure if i'll need bigger fuel lines and a second pump.

any tips here?

also, im going to be running with water/meth injection with an intercooler, also to further my detonation supression and cooling intake temps.

and my basically stock turbo II, im looking to run e85. it also has a walbro 255, but this car has a fuel cell with an inline fuel pump and a mixture of -6 aluminum hard line and braided line. with stock 550's. i know, this has a better racing fuel set up and its my daily driver...lol. but its on the stock computer. would i need a stand alone to adjust for more e85 to be injected. or can the stock ECU handle it. this car is also running AI, but water only with the stock top mount intercooler.
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Old 07-25-09, 03:08 AM
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anyone???

the way i see it is if you need 30% more ethenol, then you could essentially just upgrade the injectors 30% larger and leabe it all stock with no tuning. so, my TI has 550's all around.

30% of 550 is 165.

550+165= 715.

so i could just upgrage to 750s all around and be just fine. i already upgraded to a walbro 255 pump with -6 lines and a edelbrock filter that is metal instead of paper filter.

anyone?
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Old 07-27-09, 11:08 AM
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on the t2 get 850 prim and like 1200 or 1000 on second just to make sure dnt need that much but jic and get 2 walbro
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Old 07-27-09, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by flaco View Post
on the t2 get 850 prim and like 1200 or 1000 on second just to make sure dnt need that much but jic and get 2 walbro
are you speaking from your own experience, or just making a guess? sounds like a guess to me...

Im not trying to be an ***. But im looking for information from someone who has done it or researched it. Not a guess from someone who is bored and just post whoring...
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Old 07-27-09, 05:54 PM
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On the stock T2 you "should" be able to put in 4 720's and have it run. How well . Give it a try and let us know.

For the race car you WILL need dual pumps and 4 1600's will probably leave you short on fuel injector.
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Old 07-27-09, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by moremazda View Post
On the stock T2 you "should" be able to put in 4 720's and have it run. How well . Give it a try and let us know.

For the race car you WILL need dual pumps and 4 1600's will probably leave you short on fuel injector.
yeah, after seeing how much fuel is needed with the e85. dual pumps is definitly needed on the race car.


and i might drop in 4 750's and see what happens. but what about timing. dosnt need to be changed at all with the 105 octane rating of e85?
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Old 07-27-09, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by flaco View Post
on the t2 get 850 prim and like 1200 or 1000 on second just to make sure dnt need that much but jic and get 2 walbro
what
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Old 07-27-09, 09:17 PM
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did some research about the "myths" and the cons of e85... some good news came up... so as it turns out, e85will not in no way harm anything.

Im going to copy paste the ones that are relevant.


1. E85 Ethanol is corrosive

Yes ethanol is corrosive, but not very much. Gasoline is corrosive too. Ethanol is biodegradable in water. So it has a tendency to contain and attract water. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle; it is the water which can rust a vehicle’s fuel system from the inside out. Today’s vehicles (since mid 1980s) have fuel systems which are made to withstand corrosive motor fuels and rust from water. Also today’s distilling processes are superior to way back when. We now have better techniques for drying out ethanol or reducing the water content.

On side note, gas contains water too. Ever hear of dry gas?


2. If I put E85 in my gas tank, it will eat it away.

If your car was built in the old days, it was had a lead coated, steel tank. The water in ethanol would cause the tank to rust from the inside out. The government mandated that all gas in the USA contain 10% ethanol to help reduce tail pipe emissions. In the 1980s, automakers made vehicles with fuel systems to be ethanol and rust tolerant. Gas tanks began to contain polymers and Teflon which are extremely durable.

4. Ethanol will burn up my engine.

Ethanol has a lower ignition point than gas. Ethanol has about 115 octane and E85 has 105 octane. It burns cooler and will extend engine life by preventing the burning of engine valves and prevent the build-up of olefins in fuel injectors, keeping the fuel system cleaner.

5. Ethanol will ruin gaskets, seals, rings and more.

Running 100% ethanol or alcohol in an engine can cause damage to cork products.

The rubber neoprene used in the last 20 + years is resistant to the drying effect that ethanol may have.

Today's vehicles are built to withstand the corrosive effects of water in ethanol and gasoline. Any vehicle built since 1985 will have no ethanol related issues. Older vehicles that used more steel in the fuel systems or cork gaskets may have issues from long term exposure to water.

Vehicles in Brazil have been using ethanol for 30 years and they are completely free from using any foreign oil.

6. E85 will eat my rubber fuel lines.

This is another myth from the old days. Rubber technology has significantly advanced so the concerns of a 20 year old car or newer having issues like this are extremely rare. Plus the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated.

7. E85 will destroy my fuel pump.

E85 won’t destroy your fuel pump. If you convert a high mileage vehicle to Flex Fuel, the E85 will cause the sediment in the gas tank to dissolve and then get sucked up by the fuel pump. It is believed that this sediment may shorten the life of the pump of your higher mileage vehicle (100,000+). We have had no reports from customers with damaged fuel pumps.



so basically, unless your driving something older than 1985. you'll be just fine... sorry 1st gen guys...


so i need to figure out now if the 750's will be fine with no tuning... but i could just get an Rtek and an safc II for a decent price to adjust the fuel a little and add sometiming...

but im being a little cheap here...
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Old 07-27-09, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sen2two View Post

but im being a little cheap here...

Cheap and rotary don't exactly mix.
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Old 07-28-09, 02:00 AM
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well, not exactly cheap. i just dont really want to add a computer or a piggy back. I just want to upgrade my injectors and run it. but not many people (rx7 people anyways) have switched to e85 on dailys. mostly on race/track cars.
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Old 07-29-09, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sen2two View Post
are you speaking from your own experience, or just making a guess? sounds like a guess to me...

Im not trying to be an ***. But im looking for information from someone who has done it or researched it. Not a guess from someone who is bored and just post whoring...
mmmmm ok i would not tell somebody to try it fur fun it means ive done it even worst things o and i got a couple of client cars running on e85 running super good and never broken a motor with the e85 so if your just try to get info by just looking on the web then sorry but your doing it wrong so next time be nice 427whp 2 walbro pumps on stock fuel lines ummmm are you close to that ??
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Old 07-29-09, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sen2two View Post
well, not exactly cheap. i just dont really want to add a computer or a piggy back. I just want to upgrade my injectors and run it. but not many people (rx7 people anyways) have switched to e85 on dailys. mostly on race/track cars.
e85= not cheap and you will feel the idle funny with the stock ecu
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