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-   -   E85 Pre-Mix (https://www.rx7club.com/alternative-fuels-249/e85-pre-mix-1076063/)

Howard Coleman CPR 12-21-14 08:46 AM

E85 Pre-Mix
 
E85 premix can be an issue.

the typical 2 cycle oil that many of us used w gasoline often does not mix (stay in solution) w ethanol. also, alcohol requires a lube w a bit more backbone. finally, many are using a caster bean premix primarily because it does have outstanding lube abilities yet caster does deposit a sticky substance on the intake port walls, rotor faces and if used either in too large a ratio, or idled a lot, can cause side seals to stick.
i know this to be a fact from a number of motors.

this does not mean that it doesn't work, it is just that you will end up w sticky internals. pls do run what you wish, i am only offering alternatives.

i recently attended the largest racing trade show in the world and made it a point to speak w most of the oil companies re this issue. i did post this in the other thread but it is lost as post 33.

i learned we have numerous options w re to premix that:

will stay in solution w ethanol, that is, they are soluable

offer excellent lubrication

contain no caster component .



from the 2014 PRI:

here are three caster-free synthetic oils that absolutely will stay in solution w ethanol and methanol.

in each case i spoke w a tech person not a marketing person. Klotz ORIGINAL Techniplate is primarily used in RC airplanes. the tech person, Jame Perkins, is quite familiar w our rotaries and said it would provide proper lube strength. PN is KL 200

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/4YO7Xu.jpg


i spoke w Scott Wieland, Senior Staff Scientist CLS for Valvoline. Valvoline has recently come out w a new line of products for racing. the PRO-V line.... among them is PRO-V Racing Karting Oil. it is a new product as of Oct 2014. it will stay in suspension with both gas and alcohol and will provide proper lube strength. i am very impressed w my conversation w Scott. check out Valvoline PRO-V for more info. PN is 858545 for a 5 gallon pail.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/h78HzU.jpg


i received what i thought was incorrect info from a marketing guy at Redline at the PRI and have since checked w Redline tech so can state that the correct E85 premix from Redline is the 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil product. here's the product sheet and an excellent 2 cycle oil write-up. thanks for it Redline...

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/lfqPi1.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/9xawdk.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/TWv9MB.jpg

Bean Free :)



howard

sleeper7 12-21-14 09:24 AM

Thanks for posting the info.
Ordering some techniplate today.

Klotz Original TechniPlate

Howard Coleman CPR 01-10-15 01:59 PM

just an FYI:

approx retail price per gallon

Klotz ORIGINAL Techniplate $42.74 (see Sleeper7 link post 2)

Redline 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil $73.95

Valvoline Pro-V 2 Cycle Racing Karting Oil $50

AcidAngel7477 06-09-15 04:27 PM

good stuff, right here..thanks!

:AA:

Howard Coleman CPR 09-10-15 08:05 AM

update:

i used the Valvoline product March/April this year around 550/575 and did not like the wear on the rotor housings. i believe it needs more lubricity.

i am now using the Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil and have found my premix. i also have a number of customer E85 engines that have been running it w excellent results.

i used the Redline 2 cycle oil for 4 years around 500 hp (pump gas and 1500 cc of meth) and there was virtually no wear in the engine so i am back in the Redline camp.

Howard

street-heat7 09-14-15 05:23 PM

Howard,

If one were to run a rotary aviation OMP adapter, would you still recomend using one of these products for the resivoir (assuming no premixing in the gas tank)? Or would a more traditional two-stroke oil be OK?

Howard Coleman CPR 09-26-15 08:20 AM

street-heat7,

assuming you are running E85, a big yes on the Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil for your RA setup.

one of my engines, on Sep 11, made 614 SAE hp at no more than 26 PSI w a GT4094r using Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil. since then, it has broken two transmissions (i see a T56 this winter) and twisted a driveshaft from second gear street pulls and is running fine...

pls do note that Redline offers:

Redline 2 cycle Racing oil

Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil

you want the Alcohol oil for E85 of course.

Howard

88_N/A_GXL 10-01-15 11:05 AM

I've been running B100 biodiesel as a premix as I have posted in another thread here. I don't remember how many miles I got on it before I finally tore down the block to build my current high compression turbo block. But, there were no signs of inadequate lubrication, I was doing about 1.3oz per gallon, and no sticky residue as associated with castor. Currently I'm running it quite a bit heavy during this new break-in, approximately 2+oz:1gal. It also shows no signs of separation from the E85 during extended periods of sitting.

Pred 10-04-15 07:19 PM

Is this one ok?

Klotz Super Techniplate



or should I just get this one

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/red-40505/overview/

valley 10-04-15 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR (Post 11966530)
i used the Valvoline product March/April this year around 550/575 and did not like the wear on the rotor housings. i believe it needs more lubricity.

I'm very curious as to the circumstances regarding this.
Was it a fresh rebuild to begin with?
Approximately how many miles in those two months?
Any contributing factors (i.e. not the oil) that you can think of?

I ask as I'm given to understand that even using engine oil on a DD that's run hard won't show any appreciable wear in only two months.

rollcoal 02-16-16 06:46 PM

thoughts on castor 927 oil?

RotaryEvolution 12-26-16 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by rollcoal (Post 12028143)
thoughts on castor 927 oil?

no, it's one of the worst for hard deposits.

13btnos 01-01-17 10:16 PM


Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution (Post 12135664)
no, it's one of the worst for hard deposits.

Have to agree I was using this and it did develop hard deposits and I had to completely clean my fuel system out. Been using Redline Alcohol have not had any problems no separation or deposits. It sits for over a month in the tank sometimes before I start it up just to cycle and its perfect and I mix heavy 2-3oz per gal. My buddy uses the Castor 927 and swears by it but he is straight methanol and the fuel system is always emptied out after racing.

Howard Coleman CPR 01-02-17 02:37 PM

i ran Redline 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil in my motor and two of my customer motors and we all had the tarry deposits, especially on the primary intake runners.

previously i had used a caster based (Benol) product and a specially mixed Valvoline item and all 3 created the same issues.

i might have still be running E85 if it had not been that all four motors ended up w significantly scratched rotor housings and seals.

i am back on gas and meth as AI.

if i were looking for more than a touch over 600 i might still run E85 but i do think that a properly set up gas motor will do fine until the 625 area where alcohol begins to pull away.

Howard

WayTooFastMotorsports 03-14-18 04:30 PM

thanks for doing the research man


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