E85 Pre-Mix - RX7Club.com - Mazda RX7 Forum

Alternative Fuels Discussion and Tech on using alternatives such as E85 or Hydrogen or other fuels and/or supplements to Gasoline in Rotary Engines

E85 Pre-Mix

Old 12-21-14, 09:46 AM
  #1  
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,309
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
E85 Pre-Mix

E85 premix can be an issue.

the typical 2 cycle oil that many of us used w gasoline often does not mix (stay in solution) w ethanol. also, alcohol requires a lube w a bit more backbone. finally, many are using a caster bean premix primarily because it does have outstanding lube abilities yet caster does deposit a sticky substance on the intake port walls, rotor faces and if used either in too large a ratio, or idled a lot, can cause side seals to stick.
i know this to be a fact from a number of motors.

this does not mean that it doesn't work, it is just that you will end up w sticky internals. pls do run what you wish, i am only offering alternatives.

i recently attended the largest racing trade show in the world and made it a point to speak w most of the oil companies re this issue. i did post this in the other thread but it is lost as post 33.

i learned we have numerous options w re to premix that:

will stay in solution w ethanol, that is, they are soluable

offer excellent lubrication

contain no caster component .



from the 2014 PRI:

here are three caster-free synthetic oils that absolutely will stay in solution w ethanol and methanol.

in each case i spoke w a tech person not a marketing person. Klotz ORIGINAL Techniplate is primarily used in RC airplanes. the tech person, Jame Perkins, is quite familiar w our rotaries and said it would provide proper lube strength. PN is KL 200




i spoke w Scott Wieland, Senior Staff Scientist CLS for Valvoline. Valvoline has recently come out w a new line of products for racing. the PRO-V line.... among them is PRO-V Racing Karting Oil. it is a new product as of Oct 2014. it will stay in suspension with both gas and alcohol and will provide proper lube strength. i am very impressed w my conversation w Scott. check out Valvoline PRO-V for more info. PN is 858545 for a 5 gallon pail.




i received what i thought was incorrect info from a marketing guy at Redline at the PRI and have since checked w Redline tech so can state that the correct E85 premix from Redline is the 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil product. here's the product sheet and an excellent 2 cycle oil write-up. thanks for it Redline...





Bean Free



howard
Howard Coleman CPR is offline  
Old 12-21-14, 10:24 AM
  #2  
Rotary Enthusiast
 
sleeper7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Antonio TX/Okinawa Japan
Posts: 1,214
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanks for posting the info.
Ordering some techniplate today.

Klotz Original TechniPlate
sleeper7 is offline  
Old 01-10-15, 02:59 PM
  #3  
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,309
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
just an FYI:

approx retail price per gallon

Klotz ORIGINAL Techniplate $42.74 (see Sleeper7 link post 2)

Redline 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil $73.95

Valvoline Pro-V 2 Cycle Racing Karting Oil $50

Last edited by Howard Coleman CPR; 01-10-15 at 03:11 PM.
Howard Coleman CPR is offline  
Old 06-09-15, 05:27 PM
  #4  
We're All Fkd..
10 Year Member
iTrader: (16)
 
AcidAngel7477's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Whittier,CA
Posts: 8,654
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
good stuff, right here..thanks!

:AA:
AcidAngel7477 is offline  
Old 09-10-15, 09:05 AM
  #5  
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,309
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
update:

i used the Valvoline product March/April this year around 550/575 and did not like the wear on the rotor housings. i believe it needs more lubricity.

i am now using the Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil and have found my premix. i also have a number of customer E85 engines that have been running it w excellent results.

i used the Redline 2 cycle oil for 4 years around 500 hp (pump gas and 1500 cc of meth) and there was virtually no wear in the engine so i am back in the Redline camp.

Howard
Howard Coleman CPR is offline  
Old 09-14-15, 06:23 PM
  #6  
Full Member
iTrader: (7)
 
street-heat7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 216
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Howard,

If one were to run a rotary aviation OMP adapter, would you still recomend using one of these products for the resivoir (assuming no premixing in the gas tank)? Or would a more traditional two-stroke oil be OK?
street-heat7 is offline  
Old 09-26-15, 09:20 AM
  #7  
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,309
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
street-heat7,

assuming you are running E85, a big yes on the Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil for your RA setup.

one of my engines, on Sep 11, made 614 SAE hp at no more than 26 PSI w a GT4094r using Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil. since then, it has broken two transmissions (i see a T56 this winter) and twisted a driveshaft from second gear street pulls and is running fine...

pls do note that Redline offers:

Redline 2 cycle Racing oil

Redline 2 cycle Alcohol oil

you want the Alcohol oil for E85 of course.

Howard
Howard Coleman CPR is offline  
Old 10-01-15, 12:05 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
5 Year Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Glenwood, Iowa
Posts: 446
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've been running B100 biodiesel as a premix as I have posted in another thread here. I don't remember how many miles I got on it before I finally tore down the block to build my current high compression turbo block. But, there were no signs of inadequate lubrication, I was doing about 1.3oz per gallon, and no sticky residue as associated with castor. Currently I'm running it quite a bit heavy during this new break-in, approximately 2+oz:1gal. It also shows no signs of separation from the E85 during extended periods of sitting.
88_N/A_GXL is offline  
Old 10-04-15, 08:19 PM
  #9  
Full Member
10 Year Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 72
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Last edited by Pred; 10-04-15 at 08:33 PM.
Pred is offline  
Old 10-04-15, 09:19 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: VA
Posts: 299
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Howard Coleman CPR View Post
i used the Valvoline product March/April this year around 550/575 and did not like the wear on the rotor housings. i believe it needs more lubricity.
I'm very curious as to the circumstances regarding this.
Was it a fresh rebuild to begin with?
Approximately how many miles in those two months?
Any contributing factors (i.e. not the oil) that you can think of?

I ask as I'm given to understand that even using engine oil on a DD that's run hard won't show any appreciable wear in only two months.
valley is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 07:46 PM
  #11  
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 257
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thoughts on castor 927 oil?
rollcoal is offline  
Old 12-26-16, 11:44 AM
  #12  
Sharp Claws
iTrader: (30)
 
RotaryEvolution's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 5,135
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by rollcoal View Post
thoughts on castor 927 oil?
no, it's one of the worst for hard deposits.
RotaryEvolution is offline  
Old 01-01-17, 11:16 PM
  #13  
Rotary Enthusiast
iTrader: (1)
 
13btnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: VISTA
Posts: 789
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by RotaryEvolution View Post
no, it's one of the worst for hard deposits.
Have to agree I was using this and it did develop hard deposits and I had to completely clean my fuel system out. Been using Redline Alcohol have not had any problems no separation or deposits. It sits for over a month in the tank sometimes before I start it up just to cycle and its perfect and I mix heavy 2-3oz per gal. My buddy uses the Castor 927 and swears by it but he is straight methanol and the fuel system is always emptied out after racing.
13btnos is offline  
Old 01-02-17, 03:37 PM
  #14  
Racing Rotary Since 1983
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 5,309
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
i ran Redline 2 Cycle Alcohol Oil in my motor and two of my customer motors and we all had the tarry deposits, especially on the primary intake runners.

previously i had used a caster based (Benol) product and a specially mixed Valvoline item and all 3 created the same issues.

i might have still be running E85 if it had not been that all four motors ended up w significantly scratched rotor housings and seals.

i am back on gas and meth as AI.

if i were looking for more than a touch over 600 i might still run E85 but i do think that a properly set up gas motor will do fine until the 625 area where alcohol begins to pull away.

Howard
Howard Coleman CPR is offline  
Old 03-14-18, 05:30 PM
  #15  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Agoura Hills, CA
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
thanks for doing the research man
WayTooFastMotorsports is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ChrisRX8PR
Single Turbo RX-7's
21
10-18-15 05:01 PM
Captain_Panic
Alternative Fuels
9
09-16-15 03:06 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: E85 Pre-Mix


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: