E85 13b 25psi 670rwhp
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E85 13b 25psi 670rwhp
Just got off the phone with a friend. He ended up making 670rwhp using E85 fuel
motor specs:
13brew full bridge port motor- pinned/dowelled
s6 rotors
standard mazda 3mm seals
intercooled
74mm turbo bush bearing
microtech LT10s computer with x4 igniter box
bosch coils
42mm garrett wastegate -old wastegate
B9EGV plugs trailing and leading
4x 1600cc injectors
2x 044 bosch pumps
it made 670hp at 25psi boost
11.0 to 11.3 afr's
Boost was hitting 30psi then it dropped off to 25psi at top end due to the small 42mm wastegate. This is on a LT10s with no upgraded map sensor.
Its still using the standard microtech x4 igniter box only... no CDI and its running b9egv plugs
Motor was revved to 8000rpm. Rev cut 8000rpm..
I will post up the dyno sheets and some videos in a couple of days when i get them. Car will be raced in a weeks time. The owner said it had over 10 full dyno runs with no problems what so ever.
Any questions please feel free to ask. We need more E85 cars like this on the road!
motor specs:
13brew full bridge port motor- pinned/dowelled
s6 rotors
standard mazda 3mm seals
intercooled
74mm turbo bush bearing
microtech LT10s computer with x4 igniter box
bosch coils
42mm garrett wastegate -old wastegate
B9EGV plugs trailing and leading
4x 1600cc injectors
2x 044 bosch pumps
it made 670hp at 25psi boost
11.0 to 11.3 afr's
Boost was hitting 30psi then it dropped off to 25psi at top end due to the small 42mm wastegate. This is on a LT10s with no upgraded map sensor.
Its still using the standard microtech x4 igniter box only... no CDI and its running b9egv plugs
Motor was revved to 8000rpm. Rev cut 8000rpm..
I will post up the dyno sheets and some videos in a couple of days when i get them. Car will be raced in a weeks time. The owner said it had over 10 full dyno runs with no problems what so ever.
Any questions please feel free to ask. We need more E85 cars like this on the road!
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I haven't seen the car yet... but the owner said timings on 15 degrees. He doesn't know what % the injectors are at.
The car raced on the weekend and ran lean in 4th gear = 2 melted plugs
45psi map sensor upgrade and more tuning in the next month.
The car raced on the weekend and ran lean in 4th gear = 2 melted plugs
45psi map sensor upgrade and more tuning in the next month.
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Its melted the plugs twice already and still idles fine and starts up straight away
The car did not have a clean run (10.2 was the quickest of the day) ... its running 26x10 inch slicks, toyota supra w57 box and bent the wheelie bars like a banana on the first pass.
Before the computer gets sent out I'll go past and see what the timing really set at.
The car did not have a clean run (10.2 was the quickest of the day) ... its running 26x10 inch slicks, toyota supra w57 box and bent the wheelie bars like a banana on the first pass.
Before the computer gets sent out I'll go past and see what the timing really set at.
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
Good looking car mate. But no way he's getting 670rwhp on 4x1680cc injectors. He needs min 6 injectors to do this. I managed 530rwhp on 4 1680 injectors last year with E85 and we where at 98% duty cycle then. We raised the base fuel pressure to 45 psi and it dropped to 95%.
So no way he's getting that amount of power with only 4 injectors.
JT
So no way he's getting that amount of power with only 4 injectors.
JT
#11
Good looking car mate. But no way he's getting 670rwhp on 4x1680cc injectors. He needs min 6 injectors to do this. I managed 530rwhp on 4 1680 injectors last year with E85 and we where at 98% duty cycle then. We raised the base fuel pressure to 45 psi and it dropped to 95%.
So no way he's getting that amount of power with only 4 injectors.
JT
So no way he's getting that amount of power with only 4 injectors.
JT
What do you have?
#12
Rotary Enthusiast
I have a Aeromotive Pro Series fuel pump that delivers about 1000 lbs at 60 psi. And i was running a static pressure of 45 psi at 0 boost. So it increased about 21 psi from 0. So at max boost i was running 66psi of fuel pressure. So that's about 145-160 gph at 66 psi of fuel pressure. So don't think that's the problem mate. It's basicly 4 injectors can't deliver enough fuel on E85 for that amount of HP.
530-550rwhp is about the limit on 4x1680cc injectors. If u look at more posts here u will see the same thing, they can't do more.
JT
#13
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
here we go again...
there are 18,400 BTUs in a pound of gasoline.
alcohol delivers 9500 BTUs per pound.
BTUs equal POWER.
from the above you can see it takes 1.93 pounds of alcohol to deliver the power in one pound of gasoline.
it takes 3773 CC/Min at 11.3 AFR to make 500 rw rotary hp on gas.
it takes 7281 CC/Min to make 500 rotary rwhp on alcohol.
therefore it would take approx 6774 of E85 (assuming 85/15 by weight) to make 500 rear wheel rotary hp
4 X 1680 = 6720 at 100% duty.
to make 500 rw rotary hp.
maybe if you run the injectors static open and crank up the pressure... run them sort of like nozzles... til they overheat.
since flow increases at the SQUARE ROOT of the change in pressure....
if you were to double the pressure you would get a 10% increase in flow volume.
so you could make 550
howard coleman
there are 18,400 BTUs in a pound of gasoline.
alcohol delivers 9500 BTUs per pound.
BTUs equal POWER.
from the above you can see it takes 1.93 pounds of alcohol to deliver the power in one pound of gasoline.
it takes 3773 CC/Min at 11.3 AFR to make 500 rw rotary hp on gas.
it takes 7281 CC/Min to make 500 rotary rwhp on alcohol.
therefore it would take approx 6774 of E85 (assuming 85/15 by weight) to make 500 rear wheel rotary hp
4 X 1680 = 6720 at 100% duty.
to make 500 rw rotary hp.
maybe if you run the injectors static open and crank up the pressure... run them sort of like nozzles... til they overheat.
since flow increases at the SQUARE ROOT of the change in pressure....
if you were to double the pressure you would get a 10% increase in flow volume.
so you could make 550
howard coleman
#15
So it will still limit the amount of fuel on the injectors even tho the injectors will deliver more fuel at higher pressure.
I have a Aeromotive Pro Series fuel pump that delivers about 1000 lbs at 60 psi. And i was running a static pressure of 45 psi at 0 boost. So it increased about 21 psi from 0. So at max boost i was running 66psi of fuel pressure. So that's about 145-160 gph at 66 psi of fuel pressure. So don't think that's the problem mate. It's basicly 4 injectors can't deliver enough fuel on E85 for that amount of HP.
530-550rwhp is about the limit on 4x1680cc injectors. If u look at more posts here u will see the same thing, they can't do more.
JT
I have a Aeromotive Pro Series fuel pump that delivers about 1000 lbs at 60 psi. And i was running a static pressure of 45 psi at 0 boost. So it increased about 21 psi from 0. So at max boost i was running 66psi of fuel pressure. So that's about 145-160 gph at 66 psi of fuel pressure. So don't think that's the problem mate. It's basicly 4 injectors can't deliver enough fuel on E85 for that amount of HP.
530-550rwhp is about the limit on 4x1680cc injectors. If u look at more posts here u will see the same thing, they can't do more.
JT
It seems you have more than enough flow....
The only another thing that I can think of is, much higher fuel pressure, you may not be running an intercooler or fuel injector location (much higher up the runner)
If you have all these bases covered then someone is not telling the truth here
#16
Rotary Enthusiast
Hi,
It seems you have more than enough flow....
The only another thing that I can think of is, much higher fuel pressure, you may not be running an intercooler or fuel injector location (much higher up the runner)
If you have all these bases covered then someone is not telling the truth here
It seems you have more than enough flow....
The only another thing that I can think of is, much higher fuel pressure, you may not be running an intercooler or fuel injector location (much higher up the runner)
If you have all these bases covered then someone is not telling the truth here
JT
#18
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The car is only running 4x1600 injectors 40psi static. I was shocked when he told me what he made too
The microtech is getting a map sensor upgrade plus the data logging feature installed After that its going on the dyno again in around 1months time ... this time I'll be there to record it even though i don't like the tuner . And i will post up the data log (if it doesn't blow )
enzo:
Im only posting what the owner told me over the phone. He ended up buying a 60mm wastegate and smoothing the insides of the manifold with a die grinder . 2inch ID manifold with about a 90 degree bend going to the wastegate. 3 1/3 inch exhaust. t6 1.05 a/r exhaust housing.
I'll keep everyone updated in around 1months time after the new tune.
The microtech is getting a map sensor upgrade plus the data logging feature installed After that its going on the dyno again in around 1months time ... this time I'll be there to record it even though i don't like the tuner . And i will post up the data log (if it doesn't blow )
enzo:
Im only posting what the owner told me over the phone. He ended up buying a 60mm wastegate and smoothing the insides of the manifold with a die grinder . 2inch ID manifold with about a 90 degree bend going to the wastegate. 3 1/3 inch exhaust. t6 1.05 a/r exhaust housing.
I'll keep everyone updated in around 1months time after the new tune.
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Its got a 60mm wastegate now.. It had a 12psi spring in the old 42mm wastegate 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear was hitting 12psi and 4th was spiking to 30psi then dropping off to 25. It has no tap or boost controller.
They never knew what the injector cycle was at cause they never monitored that But going from other posts on here maxing out at 550hp... must of been the reason why it never ran properly when in 4th gear -farting and popping and melting the plugs, so it must of been very very lean. It did make 670hp on the dyno with the manifold glowing red hot but when he ran it at the track it never ran properly in 4th gear.
2 more indy blue injectors are being fitted. Dont know what hes doing with the ignition side and plugs... The tuner told him to run b9 plugs
They never knew what the injector cycle was at cause they never monitored that But going from other posts on here maxing out at 550hp... must of been the reason why it never ran properly when in 4th gear -farting and popping and melting the plugs, so it must of been very very lean. It did make 670hp on the dyno with the manifold glowing red hot but when he ran it at the track it never ran properly in 4th gear.
2 more indy blue injectors are being fitted. Dont know what hes doing with the ignition side and plugs... The tuner told him to run b9 plugs
#24
Rotary Enthusiast
Ok so correct me if I am wrong...
He is running 15 deg advance, and he is retarding 10Deg at 25psi? or at 15? or what?
Doesn't this mean he is running at 5Deg advance actual timing and this is pretty conservative for a E85 rotary, right?
I am running e 85 25 advance with a Tmap of -17 above 16psi which puts me at 8deg actual advance with a split of 8 going down to a split of 6 towards the upper rpm range but my engine is a renesis which is 10:1 compression.
I am running an lt10s with ls2 coils and I boost up to 20-21psi due to the fact that my Microtech only goes up to 20psi. The turbo is a Precision turbo PT71GTQ...2 X -044 pumps with aeromotive regulator, 2X 720cc Primaries, 2X 1000cc Primary 2's and 2X1680cc Secondaries(renesis has 6 injectors total).
Also if he is running 5 deg actual advance, 10deg of gap would put him at -5deg for the trailing, is this better?, worse?
Am I pushing mine too much...Any thoughts..
Great numbers by the way .
Thanks for the help.
Chris
He is running 15 deg advance, and he is retarding 10Deg at 25psi? or at 15? or what?
Doesn't this mean he is running at 5Deg advance actual timing and this is pretty conservative for a E85 rotary, right?
I am running e 85 25 advance with a Tmap of -17 above 16psi which puts me at 8deg actual advance with a split of 8 going down to a split of 6 towards the upper rpm range but my engine is a renesis which is 10:1 compression.
I am running an lt10s with ls2 coils and I boost up to 20-21psi due to the fact that my Microtech only goes up to 20psi. The turbo is a Precision turbo PT71GTQ...2 X -044 pumps with aeromotive regulator, 2X 720cc Primaries, 2X 1000cc Primary 2's and 2X1680cc Secondaries(renesis has 6 injectors total).
Also if he is running 5 deg actual advance, 10deg of gap would put him at -5deg for the trailing, is this better?, worse?
Am I pushing mine too much...Any thoughts..
Great numbers by the way .
Thanks for the help.
Chris
#25
Rotary Enthusiast
Ok so correct me if I am wrong...
He is running 15 deg advance, and he is retarding 10Deg at 25psi? or at 15? or what?
Doesn't this mean he is running at 5Deg advance actual timing and this is pretty conservative for a E85 rotary, right?
I am running e 85 25 advance with a Tmap of -17 above 16psi which puts me at 8deg actual advance with a split of 8 going down to a split of 6 towards the upper rpm range but my engine is a renesis which is 10:1 compression.
I am running an lt10s with ls2 coils and I boost up to 20-21psi due to the fact that my Microtech only goes up to 20psi. The turbo is a Precision turbo PT71GTQ...2 X -044 pumps with aeromotive regulator, 2X 720cc Primaries, 2X 1000cc Primary 2's and 2X1680cc Secondaries(renesis has 6 injectors total).
Also if he is running 5 deg actual advance, 10deg of gap would put him at -5deg for the trailing, is this better?, worse?
Am I pushing mine too much...Any thoughts..
Great numbers by the way .
Thanks for the help.
Chris
He is running 15 deg advance, and he is retarding 10Deg at 25psi? or at 15? or what?
Doesn't this mean he is running at 5Deg advance actual timing and this is pretty conservative for a E85 rotary, right?
I am running e 85 25 advance with a Tmap of -17 above 16psi which puts me at 8deg actual advance with a split of 8 going down to a split of 6 towards the upper rpm range but my engine is a renesis which is 10:1 compression.
I am running an lt10s with ls2 coils and I boost up to 20-21psi due to the fact that my Microtech only goes up to 20psi. The turbo is a Precision turbo PT71GTQ...2 X -044 pumps with aeromotive regulator, 2X 720cc Primaries, 2X 1000cc Primary 2's and 2X1680cc Secondaries(renesis has 6 injectors total).
Also if he is running 5 deg actual advance, 10deg of gap would put him at -5deg for the trailing, is this better?, worse?
Am I pushing mine too much...Any thoughts..
Great numbers by the way .
Thanks for the help.
Chris
Anyone?
Chris