bighroder

hey i am looking into using a 13b for my next project. I also wanted to go eco-friendly and burn propane, i was wondering if this has been tried before? I dont know were i heard it but some one told me rotary motors burn premuim, and i think propane's octane is like 80. i dont want to go turbo just NA so the question is will it work?
thanks zeth

Nick_d_TII

iTrader: (6)

You could probably contact http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=50-19

as they have a 1 rotor that runs on propane...

Good luck~!

Jaime Enriquez

Yes...its called LPG. They use it in Australia all the time.

goofe872

yes u can lpg but u have to change you gap on your spark plug but u will get hell of gas milge its like runnin lpg on a forklift .thay have kits out there just look on the web

bumpstart

https://www.rx7club.com/alternative-fuels-249/alternative-fuel-rotary-740177/

bumpstart

aussie take on the repu we should have got but never did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1jl7dXI7Yw
been waiting nearly six months for it to come back from gas fitter
they couldn't work it out and some of the f/ups at that end where laughable

i got it going after 6 hours effort,, 1st tug ,, and this is the first key start vid
( still very rough on the mixes and setup and motor build is 3 mins run time new )

i built and supplied the engine
the rotor conversion ( 12a rx7 front engine bracket and s4 spark side feet welded on to full chassis )
turbo fit and dump pipe
intercooler fit ( supra under the guard)
driveline ( modded s5 turbo box and custom tailshaft )
and wiring ( including partial locked curve dizzy and DLI ignition )

the shop got the radiator
exhaust ( after dump pipe )
gas fit up
battery fit
and supply two intercooler pipes
( the two **** bent ones in the bay )
[ and took 6 months with that ]

this engine is a RESI 6 port,, tall port primary ,, with rx4 rotors
the LPG system is custom plenum, VN TB, impco 225 and model E converter

the turbo will be s4 highflow after run in

GySgtFrank

iTrader: (4)

I've run propane on quite a few piston engine trucks and pickups over the years, including dual fuel setups. Actually, propane (LPG) has a high octane number as it tends to burn slower/cooler than gasoline. I've owned a chevy pickup where the compression ratio was 11:1 to take advantage of this characteristic. The piston engine ran well on the propane, but there are drawbacks.
First, propane has no lubricating properties. In a piston engine with valves, etc. this is a bit of a problem. Since a rotary doesn't have these, it is less of an issue, just make sure your OMP/mixing is adequate.
Secondly, propane contains less energy per volume than gasoline. You have to use more to do the same amount of work. I generally saw a drop of 3-5 MPG on propane as opposed to gasoline. To add insult to injury by the time they get done tacking on road taxes it's not much cheaper than gasoline and finding a fueling station can be a real pain.
Thirdly, fuel storage/tanks is a major hurdle, as it is with most alternative fuels. Propane and compressed natural gas (CNG) take special pressurized tanks. These tanks are oddly shaped and have to be placed well away from any heat sources. This is not a big problem in a truck because you have lots of room (relatively speaking) to play with. This is a bit more problematical in a car. When the tanks become overheated (i.e. overpressurized) they will vent off the excess pressure and fuel to the outside, so your blowoff valve has to be properly placed or venting routed, did I mention this stuff really stinks when it leaks?.
CNG has a lot of the same drawbacks, but it at least has the same energy per volume as gasoline, so your mpg won't suffer.
All that said, it does work and runs well. I would think it would work especially well in a rotary with the slower burning of these fuels. I've only used the carbureted version of the kits on the market so I don't know much about injection. But there are dual use kits on the market, how they will work out on the rotary I'm not sure, but there are other threads out there on this.
If anybody wants to correct me on any of this chime in. You certainly won't hurt my feelings any, I am perfectly aware that I don't know it all. Just passing on my experiences using LPG.

bumpstart

correct,, LPG /propane is dry fuel and some additives are included for lube ,, but its essential any rotary engine with LPG maintains a good working OMP
for electronic OMP vehicles i have helped develop a standalone stepper controller so the EOMP can remain functional

http://eomp.info/
its true there is differences in BTU , much as there is with e85 , or with any of the alcohol fuels,, and no engine using these finds that fuels BTU as a practical limit in power production,, rotary and not
the taxes and costs and purity are all relative to where in the world you are and your local market dynamics
in australia,, LPG is at every servo,, and effectively ( in the cities ) half the cost of unleaded petrol ( 92 RON ,, 88 -90 US combined RON/MON )
all while providing ,, depending on location 98- 108 RON
where i am petrol at 98 RON petrol ( necessary for 13bt )
is up to 15 cents per liter more than the standard unleaded

and while we argue the relative economies,, much depends on setups of systems on either fuel
but i have owned ported and boosted petrol rotary engines since about 95
( and NA rotarys back a few more than that )
and i know for sure the economy rate of my old petrol setup on similar engine in my rx2 ( 6 x 550 ) would get 18 L per 100 km on a good tank
similar those locally with 2 x 550 and 2 x 1000

i get that on LPG,, at around 50 % of the fuel cost,, primitive blow through impco and lambda feedback commander,,, in an FC rx7
-- and it cleared a 5 gas test to new car specs here at the time 2005 , cat delete

here is a post of mine from elsewhere regards to the economy rate comparisons of my simple feedback setup

bumpstart

this setup with a baby S trim s4 highflow has made 286 rwhp ( dyno dynamics )
with 13 psi on a 2.5 inch exhaust system

it also costs around $25 AUS per 200 km in LPG to use daily

bumpstart

here is a rehash of an old post from elsewhere regards to the standardisation of my original LPG fit out to stock manifolds
in review a impco 200 would provide better options for strength and clearing the oil filter



i had two hats made up, one short, one long
and i cut out two adapter plates like the one pictured ( between the LIM and UIM )
in the end i needed both so that the mixer hat could clear the oil filter
and had to replace the LIM to UIM studs with bolts and a section of threaded rod to compensate for the lift of the UIM


















stock manifolds
two plates to lift the UIM to clear the oil filter
( could be done with welded offset instead )
stock standard VN- VR commie type impco 225 FB install with now dead standard springs and gas assembly settings
( and my switched air bleed for when the carb is over rich in morning idle )
a modded oil filler pipe
modded dizzy, bosch DFI leading spark only

owner built mild / 6 port 13bt with highflow s5 turbo, 12 - 15 psi daily
20 L per 100 km LPG, hard driving


as basic and OEM as you can put it
old manifold, VN TB
OEM TB and manifolds

bumpstart

thought i might leave these here

gerald mosier's grass dragon.
. a s4 6p engine with the UIM modded to take a vertical holley throttle body adapter..
and a 200 impco mixer..a single model E convertor.... all standard impco stuff
a 12at dizzy and leading only ignition
and a to4B turbo with water injection
and still with operational aux port valves

all made as compact as possible
and tuneable with just a 10 mm ring spanner.. an adjusting wrench ..and a screw driver

idle quality and vacuum is better than many EFI setups.. certainly cleaner ..
.. throttle response is excellent






you can see even gerald gets a shock at how easy this started and idled,,first up
....out of the box...

vid shows the initial holley carb petrol setup, and cuts to the LPG setup.. compare the idle !!

variations on this setup can include adding a feedback controller to make it run at lambda most of the time suit a cat convertor

and .. in a car,, using a bar and plate ( indy ) type intercooler ( low pressure losses ) in conjunction with the 200 or 225 mixers
may have comparable pumping losses of tube and fin intercooler efi setups
( gerald uses no intercooler and water injection to keep the setup compact )

SiNfidelity

I hope he doesn't catch on fire lol. That exhaust looks mighty close hehe. Sure he will sort that.


Love propane/lpg rotors. They are sooo good, especially with turbo rotors.

I'm gonna be running vapour injected on my 20b rx8

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Certainly looks like it would keep the ole' nut sack nice and warm.