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I saw your build thread and that is a lot of work I eventualy want to put a 5l coyote in a first gen
I've been working with Skeese on my tune aswell.
I think between the three of us, we can figure something out.
I love the Coyote motor...the OHC deal will make fitment tough, unless you know something I don't. My project after the Rx7 is an Eddie Bauer Edition Bronco with a Coyote swap set up for high speed rally-like driving offroad.
Quick question. My 7 was tuned 2 years ago on ver 12 and have my coils dwell time set at fixed @ 3000. I'm also running the aem coils in direct fire. I recently upgraded to ver 14 on the adaptronic. Would switching to those settings help out or cause issues?
Originally Posted by SirLaughsALot
I actually calculated this for direct fire, but wasted spark uses the coil more, which would have shown more wear (heat) on the coil itself.
Glad it's working out for you as I had planned. It's going to be my baseline for the coil setup. I'm sure you could push the coils harder, but why **** with reliability?
Quick question. My 7 was tuned 2 years ago on ver 12 and have my coils dwell time set at fixed @ 3000. I'm also running the aem coils in direct fire. I recently upgraded to ver 14 on the adaptronic. Would switching to those settings help out or cause issues?
You could technically use these values in a direct fire application, however a you could also modify them to be more aggressive. Apparently these dwell times don't even push the coils to their full potential in wasted spark so you shouldn't be anywhere near overworking these coils if you are wired for direct fire. I know of people who have run direct fire coils at a fixed 4500 without any issues, so you could technically modify the table here to taper down to 4500 instead of 3000 and get even more out of them. I was actually hoping somebody would post up the calculation or a recommended variable dwell table ideal for a direct fire.
I'll figure it out this next week regardless but for the sake of answering your question, yes you could run those variable dwell values on a direct fire setup. While they are not the max the coil can push, it will still be alot hotter than with the set 3000 value you have now.
Quick question. My 7 was tuned 2 years ago on ver 12 and have my coils dwell time set at fixed @ 3000. I'm also running the aem coils in direct fire. I recently upgraded to ver 14 on the adaptronic. Would switching to those settings help out or cause issues?
They would help you out.
Skeese, Andy does NOT suggest going over the 40% duty cycle for dwell time, as per manufacturer's recommendations, so my limits are right at that maximum as a DIRECT FIRE setup.
Just because Ludwig does it doesn't mean it's safe as per the coil manufacturers. Sure, you could do it, but I'd rather have everything run cool and last 100k miles, wouldn't you?
Skeese, Andy does NOT suggest going over the 40% duty cycle for dwell time, as per manufacturer's recommendations, so my limits are right at that maximum as a DIRECT FIRE setup.
Just because Ludwig does it doesn't mean it's safe as per the coil manufacturers. Sure, you could do it, but I'd rather have everything run cool and last 100k miles, wouldn't you?
So now my recommendations are rubbish and are burning **** down? I was the FIRST to use these coils on an RX-7. Hell, I was the one that decoded the Datalogit dwell settings because no one had bothered to properly setup dwell with an inductive coil before that car was put together. That car is still running well with the original coils in wastespark with a PFC exceeding 40% duty any time the engine sees over 4000 rpm nearly a decade later. I was using these coils before Andy knew they existed and long before the fan boys thought AEM invented the damn thing. Do you even know how to do a duty calculation? Have you discussed dwell with the DESIGNER of the coil? Have you sold hundreds of these coils over a span of nearly a decade to have only ONE coil returned as inop, all the while the bulk of them running dwell settings I recommended?
You want to be cautious? No harm in that. But don't come out in public and insinuate that my recommendations are reckless. You've got not one hope for a thought to base that on and it's simply not even close to accurate. I'd be willing to wager our experience with the IGN-1A coil at LMS is on par with yours, Andy's, SBG's, and the lot of the rest of you combined. And we're not burning **** up. Never have. Go ahead and be cautious. But, if you're going to call me in to question, bring something more than your baseless feelings.
Honestly it's all preference.. Like ppl pushing turbos past what they are recommended. I bought the sake bomb kit before i knew Ludwig was selling em. I'd like to see what he recommends running dwell for direct fire also.
So now my recommendations are rubbish and are burning **** down? I was the FIRST to use these coils on an RX-7. Hell, I was the one that decoded the Datalogit dwell settings because no one had bothered to properly setup dwell with an inductive coil before that car was put together. That car is still running well with the original coils in wastespark with a PFC exceeding 40% duty any time the engine sees over 4000 rpm nearly a decade later. I was using these coils before Andy knew they existed and long before the fan boys thought AEM invented the damn thing. Do you even know how to do a duty calculation? Have you discussed dwell with the DESIGNER of the coil? Have you sold hundreds of these coils over a span of nearly a decade to have only ONE coil returned as inop, all the while the bulk of them running dwell settings I recommended?
You want to be cautious? No harm in that. But don't come out in public and insinuate that my recommendations are reckless. You've got not one hope for a thought to base that on and it's simply not even close to accurate. I'd be willing to wager our experience with the IGN-1A coil at LMS is on par with yours, Andy's, SBG's, and the lot of the rest of you combined. And we're not burning **** up. Never have. Go ahead and be cautious. But, if you're going to call me in to question, bring something more than your baseless feelings.
I have zero experience and am only taking information from a previous forum post to calculate out an ideal mapping.
Is there a better ideal DC % that you would recommend I reformulate everything to?
I'm not trying to call you out on your experiences and waste everyone's time, only stating that you don't think this 40% DC recommendation is necessary. I'm actually going to be buying my coils from you, as well as a few other little bits and pieces this motor still needs. No offense was meant.
I have zero experience and am only taking information from a previous forum post to calculate out an ideal mapping.
Is there a better ideal DC % that you would recommend I reformulate everything to?
I'm not trying to call you out on your experiences and waste everyone's time, only stating that you don't think this 40% DC recommendation is necessary. I'm actually going to be buying my coils from you, as well as a few other little bits and pieces this motor still needs. No offense was meant.
I get a little twitchy about the coils. Like everything else, there's a lot of misinformation.
The spec sheet says 80% intermittent duty. 5 second max interval. So that's a good rule of thumb. Look at that v how long you're actually using the higher rev range. A lot of it comes down to experience and seeing for yourself what works.
These coils are very robust. Other than the sigle coil I had returned a couple years ago, and a few that were fried due to improper dwell mode settings by a couple different users, the only failures of these coils I've heard of directly related to an over dwell situation, were SBG's early customers who received bad info on PFC/Datalogit setup. SBG had copied my recommended settings but failed to transpose the RPM data in my spreadsheet to match the Datalogit format. So their customers entered very long dwell times at low revs and very short times at high revs. The result was some melted coils. Helps when you know what your doing and not just trying to parrot the work of others.
I get a little twitchy about the coils. Like everything else, there's a lot of misinformation.
The spec sheet says 80% intermittent duty. 5 second max interval. So that's a good rule of thumb. Look at that v how long you're actually using the higher rev range. A lot of it comes down to experience and seeing for yourself what works.
These coils are very robust. Other than the sigle coil I had returned a couple years ago, and a few that were fried due to improper dwell mode settings by a couple different users, the only failures of these coils I've heard of directly related to an over dwell situation, were SBG's early customers who received bad info on PFC/Datalogit setup. SBG had copied my recommended settings but failed to transpose the RPM data in my spreadsheet to match the Datalogit format. So their customers entered very long dwell times at low revs and very short times at high revs. The result was some melted coils. Helps when you know what your doing and not just trying to parrot the work of others.
So what I did initially might be best (for me) then.
Sirlaughsalot's last post is what I would suggest for direct fire. I assume that's what he's referring to. If that's supposed to be for wastespark, it's not going to be appropriate.
Let us know if you feel the difference from my original map vs. this version.
Thank you Chris, I appreciate your patience.
I'd try these out, but, I'm still in wasted spark. I'll soon be converting to direct fire and will update to these values then. I have no problem being the guinea pig! I'm not really worried about cooking a coil, given they are only $75??? There are ALOT of expensive things I worry about destroying when pulling hard in the 7 and the $75 coil isn't one of them.
Given that the initial post has now been fully answered for both wasted spark and direct fire I wanted to post a verdict to ward off some of the confusion between which table was intended for what wiring setup in the earlier posts.
I have personally been running on the wasted spark table and can vouch for it working flawlessly for me up to this point. I've beat on the car pretty hard and done a few back to back long hard pulls without any issues so I think this is solid.
I have not personally run the direct fire settings, however as they have been OK'd my Mr Ludwig I would consider them correct by default.
Thanks for all of the input on this thread, it came a long way from me scratching my head at the beginning and from what I can find online is the only rx7 specific decently documented info on it. Cool deal.
I updated my direct fire settings this morning. Drive into work i had no issues so far. I'll watch to see how it's running for a bit and comment back.
Touch the coils right after driving the car hard (and shutting it off with at least a 60s cooldown period) and see how hot they get. Should be a bit toastier, but NOTHING near their limits.
03-30-16, 04:00 PM
