Acceleration Enrichment ID Injectors
Adaptronic recommends using the fuel film model (X-Tau) for acceleration enrichment / transient throttle response. If you watch this
I run 1050X primaries, 1700X secondaries. Currently, with the stock injector basemap setting of 0.200, I get a hesitation when I give the throttle rapid movements. Does anyone have some baseline settings for ID injectors or have spent some time working on Adaptronic transient response? |
Originally Posted by stompz
(Post 12305934)
Adaptronic recommends using the fuel film model (X-Tau) for acceleration enrichment / transient throttle response. If you watch this video (or read this article) from Andy, he recommends some settings for Injector Dynamics injectors (X of 0.400) because the ID injectors spray more fuel on the walls vs the stock injectors.
I run 1050X primaries, 1700X secondaries. Currently, with the stock injector basemap setting of 0.200, I get a hesitation when I give the throttle rapid movements. Does anyone have some baseline settings for ID injectors or have spent some time working on Adaptronic transient response? |
Great!
This should help me too. Just gotta find some free time to work on it. Whats the latest on the Modular manual to be released?? Got a ETA? Thx Steve |
Map prediction and the throttle sensitivity table make the biggest difference to fast throttle movements. The fuel film model can't compensate for a change in MAP that hasn't been detected yet. With stock injectors my best results so far have been with an X of 30, tau of .2, map prediction enabled and async injection disabled.
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Originally Posted by shawnm565
(Post 12305937)
I would say I probably have the most experience specifically with the adaptronic on this tuning formula. With that being said I will do a write up this week on it for everyone.
I'm also running the same 1050x/1700x ID injectors and will be trying to work on the partial/transient throttle response soon. A guide or write-up would be super helpful! stompz, whats your engine/manifold setup? I did some porting/clean-up of the ports and have a mild street-port.. not sure how much effect those things would have on transient throttle? |
Originally Posted by photoresistor
(Post 12306220)
stompz, whats your engine/manifold setup? I did some porting/clean-up of the ports and have a mild street-port.. not sure how much effect those things would have on transient throttle?
I have to imagine the amount of air going into the engine will have an effect on the evaporation rate of the fuel film from the port/intake walls. |
Originally Posted by stompz
(Post 12306256)
I have to imagine the amount of air going into the engine will have an effect on the evaporation rate of the fuel film from the port/intake walls.
Sure, getting the AFRs right at WOT full boost is important because you don't want to pop your motor but equally as important is getting transient throttle right because you don't want to drive the car (on the street) if it isn't. |
Originally Posted by estevan62274
(Post 12305961)
Whats the latest on the Modular manual to be released??
Got a ETA? Thx Steve They dont even know how it all works. Hard to write a manual when the software is in-process and their support team can't diagnose the discrepancies brought to them. Hey but whatever sells, sells. Id be surprised if we ever see a manual conclusive of the as-sold modular product. Haltech will revamp the hardware and software and put out an 'adaptronic' manual reflective of their fixed and functional version of the product, which I highly doubt will be encompassing of the product sold between its halfass developed release and the still disfunctional point at which the company sold its problems away. Skeese |
Originally Posted by Skeese
(Post 12306494)
When pigs fly, at the earliest. There is a whole thread on this they fail to address when directly asked.
They dont even know how it all works. Hard to write a manual when the software is in-process and their support team can't diagnose the discrepancies brought to them. Hey but whatever sells, sells. Id be surprised if we ever see a manual conclusive of the as-sold modular product. Haltech will revamp the hardware and software and put out an 'adaptronic' manual reflective of their fixed and functional version of the product, which I highly doubt will be encompassing of the product sold between its halfass developed release and the still disfunctional point at which the company sold its problems away. Skeese The Manual is already being written here... It is a work in progress but it is getting updated regularly. Along with this there is help files being written with in Eugene to further instruct customers. Also you realize Andy the previous owner of Adaptronic works for haltech now... and is one of the managers for Adaptronic now... So before you speak maybe you should actually know whats going on instead of spewing out bullshit like you normally do. https://s3.amazonaws.com//adaptronic...GENE_HOME.html |
Can we keep the politics out of it and focus on the topic?
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Originally Posted by shawnm565
(Post 12305937)
I would say I probably have the most experience specifically with the adaptronic on this tuning formula. With that being said I will do a write up this week on it for everyone.
Originally Posted by stompz
(Post 12306643)
Can we keep the politics out of it and focus on the topic?
As for the topic, if you read the article from andy he lays it out extremely clearly and provides plenty of rationale to dictate a starting place and even gives a specific reference to the ID injectors....so I'd recommend you start there. I expect Shawn's promised upcoming thread will be a regurgitation of bits and snippets of Andy's article, but don't expect you'll see much to justify anything different from what Andy recommended, but we shall see. Skeese |
I'm guessing these X and Tau settings are only for Modular ECUs? I didn't see anything in Wari and I gave up trying to use Eugene on my 440d.
Actually I gave up entirely and dropped my REPU off at a tuning shop that claims to know rotaries and adaptronic. They proceeded to break the transmission. FML. Probably not their fault, but now I'm missing the one event I was looking forward to all year because a 1 day tuning session to fix the transients has now turned into a transmission rebuild. |
Originally Posted by Skeese
(Post 12306682)
As for the topic, if you read the article from andy he lays it out extremely clearly and provides plenty of rationale to dictate a starting place and even gives a specific reference to the ID injectors....so I'd recommend you start there.
At the moment, I have some decent settings when it comes to X (Fuel Pooling) and Tau (Evap Time). They aren't ideal but the engine feels responsive now. AS SOON as I turn on Automatic Async, it all goes downhill again. So at the moment, the car is still going lean (still on the scale instead of completely falling on its face) at rapid movements. If all else fails I can go back to enrichment tables, reference my PFC tune and move on with my life. |
Have you tuned map prediction? I am not using asynchronous injection, I do get a short lean event if I slam the throttle open but the car doesn't hesitate. The car free revs very well. Do you have a datalog and ecu config file you could share with us? :)
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With all the cars that have been tuned so far, if nothing else you would think there would be a chart of effective values with certain engine configurations. Theoretically, wouldn’t every car with stock ports/manifolds and id2000 secondaries run the same transient throttle settings? |
Originally Posted by mrselfdestruct1994
(Post 12306863)
Have you tuned map prediction? I am not using asynchronous injection, I do get a short lean event if I slam the throttle open but the car doesn't hesitate. The car free revs very well. Do you have a datalog and ecu config file you could share with us? :)
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Hi Everyone,
I do apologize that I have not written the guide yet. There has been some major changes in my life and its just going to delay the guide about a week. The guide will be on a separate website than the forum as I can ensure the quality of the guide. I know some of you will take this the wrong way but I promise the guide will be available to the public and it is not just a regurgitation of Andy's explanation of the transient solution aka fuel film model. I will have a in-depth guide on the tools that are used to obtain your X, Tau, Transition time for Map Prediction, Predicted Map table. The the tools that are used are both Adaptronic tools and a 3rd party application. Thank you for your patience Cheers, Shawn Christenson |
No problems Shawn. Everyone has real lives outside of the internet and our RX7s. Looking forward to it when you get a chance.
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Any updates Shawn? I need to get some logs of how my accel enrichment works now but I myself have been busy and the weather has been pretty rainy. My FD is a garage queen...
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As honest as I can be it is going to take me longer than I had expected. I am going to be vague but once I have done what I do plan in my head of doing I think you will be happy had have value of what I am working on providing.
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1 Attachment(s)
Sorry for the delay on the logs, haven't had a chance to get the car out lately.
Here are some logs of me changing the X % value for my E0 map. Sorry they are long, was driving by myself so had to get to a good spot to stop the log:
Thanks for any input. |
I think you should spend a bit more time on the VE table before going any further. In the second datalog, you start pressing the throttle at around 210 seconds, but prior to that at steady state you're hitting 15.5:1 and your target is closer to 14.2:1. At 242 seconds you're at 15.5:1 steady state at 3750pm and 80kpa. Any deviation from that is going to cause a stumble and you'll never eliminate the lean condition entirely. Even the Motec manual on X-Tau states that some deviation from target is to be expected.
Also in the second log, you are running E10 so your X is actually 35%. You still have the E85 X map set at 15% and it's blending between the two. X is 32.5% in your first datalog. Changing the X by 2.5% won't be very noticeable. After correcting the fuel table I think it would be worth trying X of 40% and Tau of .4 and posting another datalog. :) Edit: Also just out of curiosity why are your period angle offsets set at -10 and 170 with a firing order of 2-1, and do you run the factory OMP? |
Originally Posted by mrselfdestruct1994
(Post 12310726)
Edit: Also just out of curiosity why are your period angle offsets set at -10 and 170 with a firing order of 2-1, and do you run the factory OMP?
When I was setting base timing with a timing light I found to get timing spot on (with FFE 36-2-2-2 trigger wheel) I had to retard timing 10*. On the FFE wheel the mark is at 0*, and revving the engine a bit after setting timing, it stayed rock solid. Why it appears to have switched to 2-1 fire order I have no idea; I didn't explicitly set that. Also in the second log, you are running E10 so your X is actually 35%. You still have the E85 X map set at 15% and it's blending between the two. X is 32.5% in your first datalog. Changing the X by 2.5% won't be very noticeable. I think you should spend a bit more time on the VE table before going any further. I'm curious why I haven't seen many posts about accel enrichment and people struggling with it when using Adaptronic with non-OEM injectors. Is this just my inexperience showing? |
Does anyone out there have an Adaptronic or other ECU map I can see an example of some modified X-Tau settings using ID injectors?
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Originally Posted by stompz
(Post 12310763)
No OMP. If you look at my wiring guide in Eugene, anything marked with a "__" has been eliminated and anything with a "*" is modified from it's normal function. The harness is a RyWire-like single turbo hardness that I made.
When I was setting base timing with a timing light I found to get timing spot on (with FFE 36-2-2-2 trigger wheel) I had to retard timing 10*. On the FFE wheel the mark is at 0*, and revving the engine a bit after setting timing, it stayed rock solid. Why it appears to have switched to 2-1 fire order I have no idea; I didn't explicitly set that. Everything seems to be a 10% blend around me, so yeah my E0 map is really an E10 map. I'll be honest, the E85 map is set to default and I didn't even consider changing it. I wasn't expecting that much interpolation between the two maps; thanks for pointing that out. What value are you looking at in the logs to see the calculated X value? I can't seem to find it. Yeah, I'll clean up some of the low load areas. I keep having issues with accel enrichment affecting starting from a stop because of the delta in TPS. Every time I cleanup the low load areas/idle, the car the becomes a pain to drive home lol. I'm curious why I haven't seen many posts about accel enrichment and people struggling with it when using Adaptronic with non-OEM injectors. Is this just my inexperience showing? From memory I think that X is logged as Calc Fuel Film %. You will be chasing your tail trying to get acceleration enrichment sorted out before tuning the main fuel table. Try targeting closer to 14:1 during cruise for the time being so that the car is easier to drive - you can always adjust the target table once your VE table is closer. It looks like adaptive fueling has been enabled in the latest firmware (aka autotune) under the Closed Loop Fuel tab, that might be worth a try to speed things up. |
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