Acceleration Enrichment ID Injectors
 

Adaptronic recommends using the fuel film model (X-Tau) for acceleration enrichment / transient throttle response. If you watch this (or read this article) from Andy, he recommends some settings for Injector Dynamics injectors (X of 0.400) because the ID injectors spray more fuel on the walls vs the stock injectors.

I run 1050X primaries, 1700X secondaries. Currently, with the stock injector basemap setting of 0.200, I get a hesitation when I give the throttle rapid movements.

Does anyone have some baseline settings for ID injectors or have spent some time working on Adaptronic transient response?

I would say I probably have the most experience specifically with the adaptronic on this tuning formula. With that being said I will do a write up this week on it for everyone.

Great!
This should help me too.
Just gotta find some free time to work on it.


Whats the latest on the Modular manual to be released??
Got a ETA?

Thx Steve

Map prediction and the throttle sensitivity table make the biggest difference to fast throttle movements. The fuel film model can't compensate for a change in MAP that hasn't been detected yet. With stock injectors my best results so far have been with an X of 30, tau of .2, map prediction enabled and async injection disabled.

That would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also running the same 1050x/1700x ID injectors and will be trying to work on the partial/transient throttle response soon. A guide or write-up would be super helpful!

stompz, whats your engine/manifold setup? I did some porting/clean-up of the ports and have a mild street-port.. not sure how much effect those things would have on transient throttle?

My manifold is stock FD UIM/LIM with 'medium' street intake/exhaust porting. I think it's fairly close to a Pineapple Med Street port templates.

I have to imagine the amount of air going into the engine will have an effect on the evaporation rate of the fuel film from the port/intake walls.

I want to correct myself, the rate doesn't change but the amount will. I am eagerly awaiting Shawn's post :nod:. Because of not having the accel enrichment settings correct, all of the cells around idle in my fuel map are overly rich to compensate. If they aren't, and are closer to 0.900 or 1.00 lambda, the car dies when trying to start moving from a stop. That really makes the driving the car feel awful not to mention the hesitation when stabbing the throttle makes the car feel unresponsive.

Sure, getting the AFRs right at WOT full boost is important because you don't want to pop your motor but equally as important is getting transient throttle right because you don't want to drive the car (on the street) if it isn't.

When pigs fly, at the earliest. There is a whole thread on this they fail to address when directly asked.

They dont even know how it all works. Hard to write a manual when the software is in-process and their support team can't diagnose the discrepancies brought to them. Hey but whatever sells, sells.

Id be surprised if we ever see a manual conclusive of the as-sold modular product. Haltech will revamp the hardware and software and put out an 'adaptronic' manual reflective of their fixed and functional version of the product, which I highly doubt will be encompassing of the product sold between its halfass developed release and the still disfunctional point at which the company sold its problems away.

Skeese

The Manual is already being written here... It is a work in progress but it is getting updated regularly. Along with this there is help files being written with in Eugene to further instruct customers. Also you realize Andy the previous owner of Adaptronic works for haltech now... and is one of the managers for Adaptronic now... So before you speak maybe you should actually know whats going on instead of spewing out bullshit like you normally do.

https://s3.amazonaws.com//adaptronic...GENE_HOME.html

Can we keep the politics out of it and focus on the topic?

Patiently waiting.

I'll butt out and divert my comments to the thread asking where the manual is and where the forums went, that goes otherwise unanswered.

As for the topic, if you read the article from andy he lays it out extremely clearly and provides plenty of rationale to dictate a starting place and even gives a specific reference to the ID injectors....so I'd recommend you start there. I expect Shawn's promised upcoming thread will be a regurgitation of bits and snippets of Andy's article, but don't expect you'll see much to justify anything different from what Andy recommended, but we shall see.

Skeese

I'm guessing these X and Tau settings are only for Modular ECUs? I didn't see anything in Wari and I gave up trying to use Eugene on my 440d.

Actually I gave up entirely and dropped my REPU off at a tuning shop that claims to know rotaries and adaptronic. They proceeded to break the transmission. FML. Probably not their fault, but now I'm missing the one event I was looking forward to all year because a 1 day tuning session to fix the transients has now turned into a transmission rebuild.

That is where I started, and Andy does a decent job going over the cause and effect feedback loop of tuning with the fuel film model. But in practice, when trying to get the engine to rev quickly from idle and maintain some reasonable and predictable AFRs, I'm having trouble narrowing in on some good settings. I understand the topic, the difficulty and the goal of the fuel film model. I'm just looking for some experience from someone who has successfully tuned acceleration enrichment via fuel film model and the steps they took to get a good tune.

At the moment, I have some decent settings when it comes to X (Fuel Pooling) and Tau (Evap Time). They aren't ideal but the engine feels responsive now. AS SOON as I turn on Automatic Async, it all goes downhill again. So at the moment, the car is still going lean (still on the scale instead of completely falling on its face) at rapid movements.

If all else fails I can go back to enrichment tables, reference my PFC tune and move on with my life.

Have you tuned map prediction? I am not using asynchronous injection, I do get a short lean event if I slam the throttle open but the car doesn't hesitate. The car free revs very well. Do you have a datalog and ecu config file you could share with us? :)

I have some from the dyno but they are before I was looking at transient throttle stuff. I'll go grab some logs to post this weekend.

Hi Everyone,

I do apologize that I have not written the guide yet. There has been some major changes in my life and its just going to delay the guide about a week. The guide will be on a separate website than the forum as I can ensure the quality of the guide. I know some of you will take this the wrong way but I promise the guide will be available to the public and it is not just a regurgitation of Andy's explanation of the transient solution aka fuel film model. I will have a in-depth guide on the tools that are used to obtain your X, Tau, Transition time for Map Prediction, Predicted Map table. The the tools that are used are both Adaptronic tools and a 3rd party application.

Thank you for your patience

Cheers,
Shawn Christenson

No problems Shawn. Everyone has real lives outside of the internet and our RX7s. Looking forward to it when you get a chance.

Any updates Shawn? I need to get some logs of how my accel enrichment works now but I myself have been busy and the weather has been pretty rainy. My FD is a garage queen...

As honest as I can be it is going to take me longer than I had expected. I am going to be vague but once I have done what I do plan in my head of doing I think you will be happy had have value of what I am working on providing.

Sorry for the delay on the logs, haven't had a chance to get the car out lately.

Here are some logs of me changing the X % value for my E0 map. Sorry they are long, was driving by myself so had to get to a good spot to stop the log:

• The file ending in *_35X.alg is 35% (at operating temp but cold night) and the applicable time range is between 52s and 67s
• The file ending in *_40X.alg is 40% (at operating temp but cold night) and the applicable time range is between 208s and 230s

For both of these sections I gave the throttle approximately 25% change and it goes straight lean. Note: Automatic async injection is on but it is set to 0. I personally don't see any changes between these two logs. Am I still not even close to the expected percentage?

Thanks for any input.

I think you should spend a bit more time on the VE table before going any further. In the second datalog, you start pressing the throttle at around 210 seconds, but prior to that at steady state you're hitting 15.5:1 and your target is closer to 14.2:1. At 242 seconds you're at 15.5:1 steady state at 3750pm and 80kpa. Any deviation from that is going to cause a stumble and you'll never eliminate the lean condition entirely. Even the Motec manual on X-Tau states that some deviation from target is to be expected.

Also in the second log, you are running E10 so your X is actually 35%. You still have the E85 X map set at 15% and it's blending between the two. X is 32.5% in your first datalog. Changing the X by 2.5% won't be very noticeable.

After correcting the fuel table I think it would be worth trying X of 40% and Tau of .4 and posting another datalog. :)

Edit: Also just out of curiosity why are your period angle offsets set at -10 and 170 with a firing order of 2-1, and do you run the factory OMP?

No OMP. If you look at my wiring guide in Eugene, anything marked with a "__" has been eliminated and anything with a "*" is modified from it's normal function. The harness is a RyWire-like single turbo hardness that I made.

When I was setting base timing with a timing light I found to get timing spot on (with FFE 36-2-2-2 trigger wheel) I had to retard timing 10*. On the FFE wheel the mark is at 0*, and revving the engine a bit after setting timing, it stayed rock solid. Why it appears to have switched to 2-1 fire order I have no idea; I didn't explicitly set that.

Everything seems to be a 10% blend around me, so yeah my E0 map is really an E10 map. I'll be honest, the E85 map is set to default and I didn't even consider changing it. I wasn't expecting that much interpolation between the two maps; thanks for pointing that out. What value are you looking at in the logs to see the calculated X value? I can't seem to find it.

Yeah, I'll clean up some of the low load areas. I keep having issues with accel enrichment affecting starting from a stop because of the delta in TPS. Every time I cleanup the low load areas/idle, the car the becomes a pain to drive home lol.

I'm curious why I haven't seen many posts about accel enrichment and people struggling with it when using Adaptronic with non-OEM injectors. Is this just my inexperience showing?

Does anyone out there have an Adaptronic or other ECU map I can see an example of some modified X-Tau settings using ID injectors?

My understanding is that your period angle offsets should be 0 and 180 with a firing order of 1 - 2. You can then adjust the base timing offset on the triggering page.

From memory I think that X is logged as Calc Fuel Film %.

You will be chasing your tail trying to get acceleration enrichment sorted out before tuning the main fuel table. Try targeting closer to 14:1 during cruise for the time being so that the car is easier to drive - you can always adjust the target table once your VE table is closer.

It looks like adaptive fueling has been enabled in the latest firmware (aka autotune) under the Closed Loop Fuel tab, that might be worth a try to speed things up.

I adjusted my cruise areas to be closer to 14.1:1. X is 40% into boost (35% from a stop seems to work better) and Tau is 0.400. It felt a little better but still a hiccup in power when there's a large delta in TPS. See 62s and 83s to see 25-30% change in throttle.

Cold weather shows I could use some more fuel into boost!

Any thoughts?

I also adjusted my period angle offsets, firing order and base timing to be correct.

I agree I think you may need to richen the fuel map between 3-4k rpm and 0-15psi boost. If it ends up being too much at steady state its easier for closed loop to remove fuel rather than make up for the lack of enrichment. You could also try increasing X or Tau further and see if that helps. I'd be interested in seeing your results. :)

Any update on this guide that you stated you would be providing? Its been a month and a half and the only update we got was that it was "going to be vague".

Skeese

Yes as I stated before there was some major changes that happened in my life. I do still plan on making the guide - Could possibly be done this week but that is not guaranteed.

For me main problem with AE on FD basemap was MAP prediction not activating aggressively enough.

YMMV, but after a lot of logging TPS rates vs TPS position and predicted MAP vs actual MAP I started changing the Sensitivity %/Sec to lower values for cells so that AE and MAP prediction actually gets activated when it's required.

This is right on par with my experience with the PMAP tuning. It just always requires a good ol'e fashion fiddlin with to figure out what works for each car. I had initially tried to figure it out mathematically through log data to balance the PMAP points with the transition time and the actual boost level at the transition but I ultimately found the seat-of-the-pants feeling of the car responding to a throttle change was really the best gauge on the PMAP settings.

Skeese

Hey Shawn.. any progress with this article?

I'm also stuck on the same boat with the transient throttle stuff. It was tuned and it runs amazing and pulls hard but at certain conditions (ie. quick throttle changes during a mountain pass/touge, cruising at 4k at 100kph and applying throttle) it will feel like no response at all, like pedal to the floor and nothing happening. Wish there were more people with our setup to see more results/setups that work with it. I'm running 1050x Primaries and 2000xx secondaries.

Contact Claudio at Tuning Technology in Florida, USA here: https://www.tuningtechnology.net/

Tell him Ryan sent you for help with the Adaptronic unit and he will offer you a remote tuning session and explain what is going on properly.

Rob Olbtomski I believe I missed your message and you dont appear to have FB if you could call or text me at 2183307369 we can chat about your car.

Cheers,
Shawn Christenson

Im having the same issue, tried 40% pooling, 0.4 evap time with 0 async. Tried also acceleration enrichement tables with no success. Still have a lean spot after i blip the throttle

any updates here?

Are you just talking about in the datalog or you can feel it hesitate? Have you setup predicted map table and tps sensitivity? Xtau can't fix what it doesn't know about.

I feel it hesitate and afr go to 22 just after i blip throttle just as described in op

i ajusted map prediction table using mlvhd with a large cruising log in a graph using tps vs rpm vs map

my fuel table is aslo tuned, when i check it with the tracer, all the cells in cruise zone are fine

i checked with logs and i see the tps go up, then map go up, then injector duration go up then down and when it goes down so does the afrs

i tried with x and tau tables, async table, ae manual tables and they all give the same results
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx7...37c39de6f.jpeg

i attached a picture of the log

its like if injectors dont stay open long enough

Can you please post your ecu file and datalog? :)

Make sure your throttle enrichment and Map prediction actually activates. The are flags you can check for this but plot map and predicted map on top of each other and check.

Adjust sensitivity in throttle %/%

This was one of my problems when I first started. Reference the the modular S6 basemap values and make sure you see AE triggered when you make a moderate (coming off the clutch from a stop) throttle change. If I recall, my settings were not sensitive enough and normal throttle movements wouldn't trigger any AE.

What I've been fighting is the opposite of Mad666Max, my AFRs go too rich but I may have tracked down the problem. I thought I had ASync disabled, but it is turned on and set to values like 60, 80 and 100%. Does anyone have a map they can post with reasonable AE response with Async enabled? I will double back if I get a chance to test some changes.

So i figured tps rate to trigger enrichement table values need lower values to make it more sensitive. Played with that and seem to be better but now i get a rich afr 1-2 seconds after i blip throttle.

i lowered x/tau with no success, must be the tps rate table thats too low now but not sure

max

Seems we're still waiting on this article from Shawn.

Article or Video? I'd take either at this point.

Hey mate, in the datalog you pm'd me you weren't triggering predicted map, as you realised above. My car hasn't been running for a long time, but from memory the attached values worked ok for me.

I can do both a video and an article on this, but I'm not a vendor. :lol:

If y'all need help, you know how to reach me.

Did an article ever get published?

Shawn has written a quick guide in this thread

https://www.rx7club.com/adaptronic-e.../#post12380812

Thank you, I will check it out.