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You don't want mine since I went super conservative just to get my REPU running, but I suggest taking any one of the base tunes and just use the section below 0psi/100kpa.
What is your timing at idle? My idles high, at around 1200rpm because the itb. The timing Idle at 10degrees max advance to 29 degrees. I just modified the s4 one like u said. Works better than before.
I have an old school 4 port 13b. Disclaimer, my engine is stalling when I come to a stop but will idle and rev fine when parked. I don't know if it's an issue with timing or the idle control.
I'm not even certain I have the right timing marks for the motor but I copied the two I had on the pulley that was on the truck over to the new pulley. Let's just assume they are 0 and -15, but I am probably wrong. I locked the timing at 0 degrees on the triggering page and used a timing light to set the base timing. Then I took the S4 map as a reference. I copied the 0kpa line exact, then I copied the 100kpa line exact. Those are the top and bottom of my table. Then I interpolated the columns. It's crude, but a start. Lastly, I had to make a minimum timing of 10 everywhere below 1200 rpm. Even though the motor will idle at 0 degrees, as I said above it falls on its face when I push the clutch in after driving.
I am getting frustrated and Adaptronic deleting their forum isn't helping. I don't know if my intake is causing problems, lack of a speed sensor, the alternator pulling torque, or what. Something is causing the motor to go right past idle and stall out, only when lifting off the throttle and pushing the clutch in. It's the rapid decel it doesn't like.
I also have a early 4 port 13b street ported. Used my 12a irons and gslse housings. I used the 12a stock pulley. Timing marks are 0 and 20. I used to have a stock mazda cas. But was having trouble with it. Dont know if it was my Mickey mouse plug or what. I got the FFE trigger wheel with the reluctor sensor not the hall effect sensor. My timing is rock solid now and it idles a lot smoother. Made a Big difference. It was tricky trying to figure out what was tdc on the wheel tho. Because the directions dont show u ****. And there is no mark. I had the same problem with it dying coming to a stop. I just turn off or put to 0 all the idle control stuff. Then all the cells around idle I made richer. Im very disappointed in adaptronic for deleting the form. Without it I would of never figured this older select ecu out. Ya there was some b.s. on there but there was also a lot of valuable information that was lost. Just Stupid. That's why I'm on here trolling for some answers.
I got frustrated the other night and switched from TPS back to MAP tune. I haven't ported the motor yet so my MAP signal isn't that bad. After a few base readings with rapid tuning, then flipping on slow converge I got a decent curve that I can drive in open loop. Now you have me wondering whether the CAS is the issue. My logs show a generally smooth RPM readout but when watching the numbers in WARI they tend to fluctuate within maybe a 25 RPM range. Of course I still have the stalling issue whether I run TPS or MAP tune. The engine feels smoother cruising with the MAP sensor and the transients aren't quite as bad.
Then to add another layer of complexity... on my way to work the O2 sensor stopped working and just reads 7. Could be a fuse or something, I don't know...but the funny part is that when I lift off the gas and clutch, it behaves differently now: The RPMs still drop too fast, but they fly past 1000, down to 300, and spring back up and rest solid on 800-900. So I think my problem is that the ECU is trying too hard to solve AFR conditions as the RPMs drop.
Anyway, heading home in a few minutes, going to check the fuses on the O2 sensor before I drive off, and I'll take a log of the ride to see if I can catch this stalling issue.
I've been playing with 1map, 2tps, map × tps. It seems to idle & drive good. Just a little rich. Not as fast as 1 unused 2 tps tho. But i like how smooth it runs on map × tps. I used my current fuel map 2 and on fuel map 1 i put 1.000 across the whole map. Then I used my tps based ignition map2 moved it to ignition map1. Then on ignition map2 i put 10.0 accros the whole map. I think with a little more tuning /figuring out how it works. it should be better than 1unused 2tps. I got the info on how to do it from adaptronic before they deleted everything. What got me curious about map/tps tune was a couple months ago I had my car dyno tuned by a well known rotary tuner. He used
map + tps. But He just copied all my existing maps. I thought he was and had tuned each cell on the whole map. But when i got home pluged in my computer. He tuned fuel map 1 at idle. Then at the top end. Everything else was my old maps. It ran really rich. So i didnt use it for very long. But it got me playing with Map × tps and I now have it running better than map + tps. All I got out of that dyno tune was seeing what he did to get it to work. I guess if u want anything done right just do it yourself.
I think when u dont have a o2 sensor the ecu will be in closed loop like its warming up. So it will be a rich mixture. If it ran better without the o2 sensor then I'd say your cells were too lean. I remember now when I first got my car running I couldn't get it to idle and it would die coming down to idle. In the book it said because too lean. Make all the cell richer around idle. See if that helps.
I don't know what the deal was with the O2 sensor. I checked the fuses and connections, turned it back on the next day and it worked fine. As far as idle cells being too lean, I could try giving them more fuel. I get decent AFRs but that's also running 15 degrees more advance than what should be necessary (or at least I think it's 15 degrees more). I do want to get this on a dyno eventually but I'm with you, I don't mind messing with it myself and having issues. I DO mind paying someone by the hour to do a worse job than me.
My o2 sensor last couple of days takes a really long time to warm up. I think i need a bigger alt. 80amp not cutting it anymore. Aem smart coils take alot of juice. EBay has 110amp that should be enough. Cuz i see on my log im only pushing 11.5v with a brand new Bosch alt. & yellow top Batt. If i were to do a dyno again I would just rent it myself and do the tuning. I have some pretty long steep hills near me. Thats how I've been doing it lately
I'm running a TII FC alternator. I burned out one of them by not wiring the sense wire correctly. I had it connected to the ignition but it looks like it is supposed to be direct connect to battery so I ran a separate cable all the way to the REPU's battery in the back. So far so good. I get 13.7v at idle and around 14.1v at cruising speeds as read from the ECU.
I too have some very steep hills I've used for getting some baseline values. I go out late at night and put on slow converge mode...then I just climb the hill at different speeds and gears. And then smooth out the table after a few runs and repeat.
I've been playing with throttle off over run sense u said something about it. There is a improvement. Just got to dial it in. 2500 was too low 3500 think it's too high. Delay at 500. The only thing that I changed was that. now my o2 sensor is acting up. It will go to 8.4 or 9.7 and Just get stuck there. Engine starts to run like ****. It will stay stuck there for a long time then go back to normal. Did u have same problem with your o2 sensor.
Any oddity I saw with the O2 sensor was in the opposite direction for me. It would jump right up to 22 as soon as it engaged the overrun. When I got back on the throttle it would take a bit to smooth out. I thought it was possibly due to the injectors being mounted too far from the combustion chamber and what Andy refers to as "wetting" factor. It takes more fuel to wet the walls of my intake so if they dry out during overrun, it takes a bit for them to soak up again. I have no scientific evidence that this is the case...but I gave up with the low overrun RPM settings so I wouldn't have to deal with it.
Also keep in mind, if throttle off is engaged for a long period, more than a few seconds, the O2 sensor is going to cool down. On my 1st gen, I have the dual Innovate O2 sensor kit installed on the Racing Beat long primary exhaust. The sensors are at the tail end of the header, maybe 3" from the flange. The rest of the motor is stock. When the shutter valve on the Nikki engages during decel, it blocks off the rear rotor, essentially the same feature as throttle off overrun. I'll see the rear rotor gauge jump to 22 when it happens while the front rotor stays at 14-15, and if i do a lot of coasting, it will actually switch back to HTR mode. I don't know what reading an ECU would get when the heater is on. I think my truck reads 7.4 or something right after start up so that could be what you are experiencing.
Ya i think i had the Throttle Off Over Run too high. It did it to me when I was getting on the freeway. I waited for a semi to pass then punched it. Didn't go anywhere. look at the o2 sensor read 8.8. Stayed at 8.8 till I got off the freeway on next exit that was 3-4 miles away. Only thing I changed was throttle off over run.
Ok, so today's exercise...
1) Disable throttle off overrun by setting RPMs to 10,000.
2) Run in open loop
3) Stick to VE MAP tune for my ITBs
4) Focus on what the hell is going on when I lift off the throttle in gear, and out of gear
Here's what I found out. I read somewhere that VE tuning on a basic N/A stock motor is basically a flat matrix. When you add boost, you'll need more fuel to compensate. When things like VTech or timing changes go into affect, you'll need more fuel as well. In the end, you end up with a chart that tends to require more fuel as RPMs go up and vacuum turns to boost. Pretty obvious conclusion looking at the base maps. When I was getting auto tuned cells for cruising loads/RPMs I was assuming that values below it would be similar and values above it would require more fuel. However, I think the overall large amount of throttle body area on my intake means when a high vacuum signal is detected, more air is getting into the motor than Adaptronic was expecting for their "basic stock motor with no boost". After basically cruising, lifting off the throttle, and adjusting the high vacuum cells until I stopped getting a lean condition, I ended up with a chart that looks more like a gorge than a mountain. The motor needs high VE % at high vacuum, low VE% at light throttle, but then high VE% once you get past about 15% throttle. And of course, there is a huge hole in the chart at idle. The chart below for my motor yields cruising AFRs around 14, off throttle AFRs at 13, and wide open throttle around 12, and it idles at 13. It's crude right now with big steps, but it's a starting point for me that doesn't stall out when I lift off the throttle.
05-08-18, 04:57 AM
