motox_rider695

ok i dont have a whole load of money to just buy a whole new TII motor or anything...

so what im asking is what is the cheapest and best way to make my n/a a turbo??


i was thinking of buying a blown up turbo car and redo the motor and then drop it in, or is it possible to swap over the turbo parts i need into my car and jus leaving the TII car blown up?

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Thats the best way if your engine has good compression. If you have a space for a TII parts car and find a good deal then thats the best way assuming the turbo is good and its the same series.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

cheapest and easiest way is to sell your car and buy a running T2.

oops! that sounded too obvious...however true it may be. if you can't find one near you then i would still look around for a T2 rolling chassis and find a core motor or build one.

2slow4stock

iTrader: (18)

Or find a core and rebuild it, then drop it in when your motor blows.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

many people forget that the whole T2 drivetrain is completely different than the other series. i still don't know why people bother trying to do it the cheapest way possible only to feel a squishy wannabe car that isn't a true T2. yep you can bolt everything in but it is a huge undertaking.

ifryrice

I think there's a lot to be said for the people who can 'properly' manage to turbo a 6port. It can be done *EXTREMELY* cheap and be fairly reliable. The stock n/a driveline will handle the abuse of a basic turbo upgrade without much of an issue.

For example, I'll describe my old '87 Sport. The car was free, had no motor, but everything else including TII suspension. I picked up a $300 shortblock, slapped on TII manifolds (about $100 for a full set). Threw in 550/720 combo ($150 for all 4), walbro ($60), and a good clutch ($400). S5 Turbo ($150), stock TMIC/some random BOV/other crap ($100 or so?), RB downpipe $90 Slapped it all together and ran it with just an SAFC for almost 25k miles beating the ever loving snot out of it and never had an issue.

So, for about $1440 I had a rather solid and reliable car that was faster than most TII's. As long as you're somewhat reasonable with what you're aiming for it's not too expensive nor 'bad' to try to do it cheap. I'd say it has a lot more to do with the research and quality of work the people put into it than anything else.

If it's kept in perspective, it can be done extremely cheap, give a hell of a power increase, and be relatively reliable.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i would say you were probably fairly lucky, i would also assume it was an S4 block with 9.4:1 compression versus the 9.7:1 S5 n/a block. it also requires some tuning knowledge, pressure sensor, AFM, ECU, exhaust and a handful of other items so it leads me to think you forgot just how much it takes gathering up parts and putting it together.

just like milling a head on a small block V8 you have to run higher octane gas, same principle with running high compression with a turbocharger, it will detonate at lower boost levels.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Its not rocket science. There is no "tuning knowledge" or luck involved. Those parts are extremely easy to find, and a turbo car will need exhaust as well.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

mmk

sais the masses of people who slap a turbo on a high compression non turbo and are amassing in this thread.. bolting a car together isn't rocket science, that is the correct part.

ifryrice

Not at all, it's not the first nor last 6port turbo I've got or built in this method.

I used all S4 N/a electronics until I swapped to a BNR Stage 4 at a much later date. The same electronics setup Aaron originally ran, and a lot of people have since. Originally I did nothing with tuning at all, I added an SAFC about a month or so afterwards. The RB DP I bought bolted right up to my old midpipe location, so I never had to bother with anything else on that setup. Not much else required changing or work. Ran the setup for probably 2k miles until the SAFC was installed. No problems at all, running wastegate directly off the spring. Techedge would run about 10.5:1 almost anytime in boost prior to the SAFC, and EGT's were fine. Can't say what total advance was, ignition was set 3* back from stock CAS location.

I wouldn't exactly say that. If you keep it realistic, 5-8psi with the fuel/power levels you're making on the stock equipment has a lot of 'wiggle' room. Start changing that out and the more precision/knowledge is required.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

Changing that out on a turbo car would also require some tuning knowledge. Not that it matters, since 8psi on a 6 port engine would make as much if not more power than the turbo engine @ 12psi and have better boost response.

Versus someone that hasn't ever built a 6 port turbo car? The masses can do what they want. If they want to do it without doing research after being warned then they can blow their cars up for all I care. Turbo charging an NA engine is not rocket science, especially when it has a turbocharged counter part with interchangeable parts.

ifryrice

Effective compression would be similar to a 1.5psi increase at 8psi, not 4psi using S5 numbers. A 9.7:1 6port @ 8psi would have a similar effective compression as a 9.0 @ 9.5.

Using 93, with stable IAT readings, 5-8psi on a 6port gives you a pretty reasonable error margin, but then again we're not really talking a whole lot of power either. Tuning the BNR on the same engine was where you had to start paying attention.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

nope, i haven't. til i pulled apart a S4 "T2" motor that a customer had built by another shop, which had the wrong rotors installed. it's a brick on the floor while i sort it out right now. course it had a stage 4 BNR but it also was assumed to be a 8.5:1 compression not a 9.4.

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

first get the half shafts, Diff, drive shaft and trans. Install all that on a week end. Save your cash then get a JDM TII engine that is the same year range as yours, swap engine, ECU, ect. last i looked a S5 JDM TII motor shipped to your door was cheaper than the rebuild kit.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

they may as well ship them with rebuild kits

nillahcaz

iTrader: (2)

hmm... all 6 jdm motors i have gotten where stripped down ported and put back with just a soft seal kit, i know your going to give some "but you needed six of them" no i did not. I was testing bridge\exhaust port shape and overlap and had 3 S5 4ports and 3 13b-re. I ended up with three combos that ran well, kept one in my car and gave the other two away to friends. One popped on the dyno *BW s374 lost waste gate line, data log shows 28psi* the one in my car was pushing ~240hp and went 89k miles till i revved to 14k on a missed shift. the other now has 114k miles and is still driving to this day.

Bwek

iTrader: (4)

I have an S5 9.7cr 6 port turbo

its very easy to put together I did mine on the cheap I got lucky the only parts i had to pay for were injectors and the stock piping

I used an S4 Turbo, rb downpipe,S5 intakes ported to match and stock top mount, oh and don't forget the Fuel rails

I'm Using the Stock S5 n/a ECU, Map sensor,Afm and primary injectors, made it extremely easy to get up and running

I used an Greddy emanage Blue to control the whole thing I have timing setup to Retard for every -1 for every 1 psi, Also I have the extra harness' for the emanage so when i tune, i tune by adjusting the pulse width of the injectors Wwaaaayy better than using an Afc which modifies the Afm to trick the computer Which in turn could advance the timing

And im using the Stock 460cc primaries and 550cc T2 secondaries Im about 11-1 At 8 psi at WOT Runs great drives like stock still fuel mileage is a tiny bit better if i stay below 3500

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

And effective compression ratio is not necessarily related to power output since the intakes on the two engines are different. In the end the 6 port engine will make more power at the same boost and have better boost response-all at the cost of doing some research (which you'll need for a rotary turbo car anyway) and saving money and work in the end.

More of a reason to go 6 port turbo if the NA engine in the car has acceptable compression.

Ultimately you are blaming high compression for the lack of knowledge which led to improper tuning (or no tuning) and high boost levels among other things.

ifryrice

The only thing different in the intakes is a less than ideal transition to the 6port and the iron's port size/shape/timing, which goes both ways as to being larger on one and smaller on the other. EC is by far the largest contributing factor to power output differences at the same relative psi between a TII block and a 6port, all other things being equal.

In any event, turboing a 6port when you've got a solid platform to start from (a car you've rebuilt recently, hopped the suspenion/interior/whatever, or dumped a lot of money into and don't want to sell for a TII), can be done very cheap and be quite reliable. Keeping boost moderate on the stock equipment gives a pretty big cushion of error, allowing for a less than stellar tuning/knowledgebase to make it work fine. You'll also be able to get away with the stock driveline. Sure, you could pick up a TII block and drop that in and keep the original driveline, but it's usually more expensive and a larger gamble than staying with what you've got.

Evil Aviator

Close... Buy the blown up Turbo II car, rebuild the motor, then sell your non-turbo car.

motox_rider695

the only thing is that i dont wanna sell my car, may sound dumb but its hard to even find a rx7 around here... my motor has ~10k mi on it so the comp should be good pretty good and not to mention i just got all the body work done recently... other than my car i've only seen 2 other rx7's

thanx for all the replies...keep them coming!

motox_rider695

what if i were to buy this??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAZDA...Q5fAccessories

ifryrice

That is a whole lot of random ****! It just looks like a mess of random stuff you could possibly use at some point, but really I wouldn't want to nor suggest you do it. List your ideal goals, and I'm sure we can give you a better idea of what route to take. Going with a full T4 turbo requires all kinds of things that'll add up quickly.

Evil Aviator

That is a bunch of shiny Chinese crap that they sell to noobs who they hope will stupidly buy it without first checking with their auto mechanic or automotive internet forum. Fortunately, you outsmarted them. FYI good parts would cost around $6,000 to $8,000 total, so that should give you an indication of the quality of this kit.

Here are some of the problems:
- There is no turbo manifold.
- There is no upgraded fuel pump.
- There are no upgraded fuel injectors.
- There is no fuel computer.
- There is no downpipe.
- An aluminum wastegate? Are they serious?
- Cheap Chinese or Mexican turbos are crap, and many of them have been found simply glued together.
- This particular turbo is not water-cooled. All good modern turbos are water-cooled so they last longer. Rule of thumb: Any newly-manufactured turbo that is not water-cooled is an ancient piece crap.
- A turbo timer (I assume that's what they mean by "timmer") is only needed for crappy turbos that are not water-cooled. Therefore, if you pay the extra $50 for a good water-cooled turbo then you don't need to buy a $100 turbo timer.
- When you see the "T3/T4" designation it means the turbo is a hybrid T4 compressor fitted to a small T3 turbine. While this is fine for a Honda, rotary engines work best with a T4 turbine fitted to a T4 manifold.
- I highly doubt that kit is capable of "500HP+", but a street car would require many other modifications to support that power level, such as an upgraded radiator, Turbo II drivetrain swap, performance clutch and pressure plate, full exhaust system, engine rebuild with high-boost modifications, etc.

Also, some of those kit items are not necessary, such as the oil cooler, tachometer, hose dressings, and voltage stabilizer. It also disturbs me to see the kit set up like that with both BOVs in line next to each other, but I am afraid to ask, lol.

Evil Aviator

It does sound dumb because you say that you don't have a lot of money but that your current engine only has 10k mi on it. So what is the problem?

So let me get this straight... You were thinking about buying a blown up turbo car and then redo the motor to put into your current car. However, when it comes to buying a blown up turbo car and redoing the motor and selling your non-turbo car, then all of a sudden there are no RX-7s in your area for you to buy. Are you on crack or something?