drittens

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/o...ring_pump.html

I tried it but it didnt work....anyone know where I can get one of these? These are exactly waht I wanted to do rather than using my worn out OMP.

Thanks

Aviator 902S

Sez "link not found." Can you describe this omp vs. stock?

drittens

its like a dry sump system....has a seperate tank w/ 2 cycle rather than using pan oil.

Aviator 902S

This is exactly the set-up I'm running in my '85 GSL 12A. What I did was purchase a used OMP from the wrecking yard for ten bucks. I then dismantled it down to the last component, cleaned and inspected it, replaced all three seals with Viton ones and then re-assembled it.

Next, I drilled a small (1/16" diameter) passage through the side of the omp lengthwise through the side of the mounting flange so that this new passage terminated at the orfice where the omp normally receives oil from the engine. I then bored out the first 1/4" of this hole to just under 1/8" diameter so that a small metal tube could be threaded into it.

I tapped threads into the first 1/4" depth of this hole (from the outside end, not the end where the oil would normally enter from the engine) and then threaded the first 1/4" external portion of an approximately 2" length of 3/16" (outside diameter) steel tubing. This tubing is similar to some of the small metal emissions tubing on top of your engine, but slightly smaller in diameter.

The next step was to put some red Loctite sealant on the threads and then thread this tube into the end of the hole drilled into the omp. Then I carefully put an approximately 10-degree bend in the tube so that the end of it could be accessible for attaching the 2-cycle oil feeder tube to it. To reinforce this tube I gobbed a generous quantity of JB Weld epoxy on both the tubing and the body of the omp. This was to prevent the drilled (and therefore weakened) flange from cracking due to normal engine resonance.

Before re-installing the metering pump it was necessary to buy two stock omp gaskets from Mazda at a cost of $3 each. I then used one of them as a template to make a replica out of aluminum. This aluminum is the necessary block-off plate. Drill the holes through it for the two mounting bolts but do not drill the same small orfice in it that you see in the stock gaskets. If you do the oil from the pan will not be blocked. I then used silicone sealant to glue the gaskets to each side of this block-off plate. With this done, I could now reinstall the omp.

The reservior I used was an old power steering fluid reservior from the wrecking yard. I mounted it on the right-hand shock tower on the front side of the shock tower. A 2.5' length of fuel hose and a 90-degree elbow and some clamps were all that I needed to complete this mod.

The oil gravity-feeds into the omp and the omp meters this oil into the feeder tubes leading to the carb. Capacity is about 12 oz and I use about 8 oz per tank of gas.

PM me if you have any other questions or concerns.

Brett.

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

It's an MOP it's a friggin MOP. Metering Oil Pump.... Why must everyone get it wrong... Go to Mazda and ask for a OMP and they won't know what you're talking about. Ask for a MOP and then they'll know because that's what i is...

Aviator 902S

"GODDAMMITTOHELL!!! It's a Porsch-e, NOT a "Poorshh."! If you want to be recognized as a serious ****-retentive Porsche snob at least learn the proper way to say it!"

I think the guy who told be this eventually ended up weaving baskets and counting the worms crawling up the wall in his new teflon dorm.



MOP, OMP, who really gives a f%#k? It's either a pump that meters oil (OMP) or a pump that delivers metering-oil (as opposed to oil that gets to stay in the rest of the engine) to the intakes (MOP). Both are correct. In fact, the Haynes manual uses both. And if you ask two different Mazda rotary mechanics which is correct you'll get three different answers. Please try not to lose any sleep over this argument because I'm most certainly not. After all, I'd never cut it as a basket weaver...

Hyper4mance2k

iTrader: (40)

I was just kiding mang. LOL and it is Porsch-e. It's important to say it right only because it's someones name. Not just some word. And awesome job on converting your mop! I was thinking about doin it myself, but I've just been kinda lasy about it. Good Job man!!! I'd like to see some pics!

Aviator 902S

LOL, yeah I know you were kidding but I couldn't resist.

This particular conversion idea wasn't originally my own. Another member on the forum did a similar mod on his 2nd gen using a brake bleeder screw and his thread has photos.

Unfortunately the 12A metering pumps are slightly different so I was unable to do mine in the much simpler and more practical way that he did his. I'd previously been using an adapter that I'd purchased for $76 from PCV Technologies, but when I read this other member's thread I realized that it rendered the adapter obsolete and an un-necessary expense--- hence the mod. I don't have the wheretofore to post pics but if you try a search you'll likely stumble onto this other member's pics.

And yeah, Porsche was the guy's name (Ferdinand). But there was a guy named Wankel too (Felix), yet we generally refer to his (most excellent) engine as a rotary...

kleinke

That is ridiculous. It is better to be consistent, one way or the other. If you pronounce Porsch-e then you should then pronounce all Marques in native fashion. Hence BMW is BAY-EM-VAY and VW is FOW-VAY.

drittens

ok cool thanks, Im going to give that a try....where do I get a rebuild kit for OMP/MOP/WTFBBQEngineSavingOilingDeviceOrWhateverYouWannaCa llIt? Mazdatrix seems kinda expensive and I dont really care for the fact that they dont tell you EVER how much they are going to charge you for shipping until you get your bank statement =/ or is that who you suggest?(they seem to have the biggest selection)

Aviator 902S

If only it were that simple...

The only "rebuild kit" that I'm aware of is a set of o-rings (three of them) that need to be replaced. This one was available from Lowe Performance for around $16. Everything else inside the pump is usually good, although the "cam" on the operating shaft can wear out and when it does the omp (mop) won't work. Inspect this piece carefully for any signs of wear before re-assembling the omp/ mop.

For this reason it's best to pick up two metering pumps (about $10 each) at the wreckers, dis-assemble them and then pick the best components from each to make one good one. Don't even bother going to Mazda ot Mazdatrix--- they will only sell you a comlete pump and charge you almost $200 for it. BTW, Mazdatrix typically gets parts such as this one straight from Mazda so there's no savings to be had.

As for replacement o-rings, I simply measured the old ones and then went to an o-ring supply house and purchased Viton o-rings of the same dimensions. BTW, insist on Viton and accept no substitutes. The Viton o-rings stand up to the heat better and last longer. Also, o-rings are super-cheap to buy--- something like $20 per hundred or thereabouts.

The o-rings you'll need and their dimensions are as follows:

13/16" (outside diameter) with a 1/16" cross-section (cross-section = the "thickness" of the actual o-ring material if you were to saw through it).

Get two of these. One each of them goes into the "rounded-diamond-shaped" groove under each end cap.

1/4" outside diameter (or preferrably the metric size just ever so slightly larger than this) with a 1/16" cross-section.

Get two of these. They both fit back-to-back on the operating shaft inside the back end of the pump. (I know the stock Mazda and the Lowe Performance kit use only three seals rather than four. This is because their 1/4" diameter o-ring isn't a standard o-ring at all, but a twice-as-wide/ same diameter seal. Using two o-rings in place of this seal will work just fine).

BTW, these pumps are super-easy to dis-assemble and re-assemble. For the measily $10 (used) purchase price there's no need to worry if you happen to botch one while drilling the oil passage or forgetting how they go back together. Simply pick up another and try again. Total cost if you do it yourself as described above shouldn't exceed $60 or so--- and a few hours of your time.

RussTypeS

iTrader: (3)

I think you mean inside diameter, the ID of the OMP cam seal is 5.3mm, or .29in, the OD is 9.23mm or .363in. I was gonna try one of these...

http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/PS...MainWidth=1193

Aviator 902S

I just checked the ones I have in the garage and you're right--- the smaller o-rings (cam seals) are in fact 1/4" inside diameter, not O.D. as I'd stated earlier.

The larger seals that go under the end caps however are an outside diameter of 13/16". I initially measured this by making a mark on the edge of an old omp end cap seal (which was no longer round but had taken on the diamond shape of the slot it had lived in for the past 20 years) and then rolling it on a flat surface and measuring the distance covered in one complete revolution. When I purchased and installed new ones of this O.D. they fit perfectly.

RussTypeS

iTrader: (3)

lol i just realized i measured .209, not .29, how do the 1/4" ID rings fit? are they tight against the inside of the cam?

Aviator 902S

If I recall correctly they fit slightly loose on the cam, but tight against the housing. Of course, they had to stretch over the larger diameters on the cam in order to be installed into their groove. And there are no leaks, so they're definitely doing their job.

boyee

iTrader: (3)

just to clarify what is the easiest way to take out the omp? i was reading the mazda repair manual for an 82 and from what i see i have to take out the front cover of the engine including water pump, etc and then take out the front cover plate and then loosen the nut and washer on the omp and slide the omp out together with the chain to the eccentric shaft. correct me if i am wrong. i just want to replace the orings on my omp since my omp leaks onto my exhaust manifold and it causes my engine to smoke oil. if theres an easier way id like to try that first. would lucas oil stabilizer help stop the leak? if i have to take out the front engine cover anyways would it be best to do a complete rebuild? any reply is greatly appreciated. have a great day!

MattG

iTrader: (2)

You dont think you would be able to make me one do you? As I am in college and dont have the time. PLEASE!!

Id pay ya! And pay ya good!

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

rotaryaviation has a seperate 2-stroke OMP addon.
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm

It still uses your omp itself to do the pumping, just gives a different supply.

If you think your OMP is "worn out", a simple and cheap rebuild will fix it. Check the FAQ, Archive, search for Lowe's Performance.
Call them, order the OMP rebuild kit, rebuild your OMP. It's that easy. Took me 45 minutes including a 1/2 hour of just letting it soak in mineral spirits to clean it.

So yeah, literally 15 mins of work to rebuild the omp good as new. The pump itself will never wear out, only its seals.

Jon

MattG

iTrader: (2)

Wow I like that!

From what I undetstand the one from Rotaryaviation, you put the adaptor on first, then you attach the stock OMP/MOP to that. And it uses the stock OMP/MOP lines to carry the 2 stroke oil to the carb nipples.

Is this correct?

EDIT: I guess I am correct, I just read vip's new post!

Man that is hella awesome, 76 bucks is not that bad, Im willing to pay a little extra, So I dont have to do it myself. Even though Id rather do it myself, but Stupid college taking away from my 7 time! Gosh, I think ima drop out and work on the 7 full time!

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Still have to find a resivoir that can hold 2-stroke oil though. I hear that you need something capable of holding *oil* because otherwise it'll eat through. I was going to use the sub-zero resivoir until I heard that.

Jon

MattG

iTrader: (2)

I am thinking of using a power steering resivoir, I think that should be able to hold up! If not it will be a temp, until I can machine an aluminum one.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

You either need to read better or correctly identify parts. What you are reffering to is the oil pump itself, entirely from the MOP. The MOP bolts on the outside of the front cover, under the lower cooling outlet of the waterpump housing.

boyee

iTrader: (3)

sorry ill double check. because i was reading my mazda factory repair manual and it was showing the steps to reomving the 12a and disassembling it and they took out the front cover and then it showed to take out the eccentric shaft pulley and then unbolt the nut and washer to the omp (mop) and slide it out along with the chain to the eccentric shaft. i might have read this wrong.

so basically i can juse unbolt the exhaust manifold and let it hang to the side and put my car on jacks and access the omp (mop) and remove it (after draining the oil first) and take it apart to rebuild and reverse each step to install it back on. i plan to buy the vito orings myself to replace all 4 orings since the lowes only replaces 3. for me i like to replace everything since i have the omp all apart already

thanks for your replies!

Aviator 902S

You don't need to unbolt the exhaust manifold or drain the engine oil first--- the manifold is not in the way. A very small amount of engine oil will drip when you pull the omp away from it's mounting surface on the outside of the front cover but that's about it.

All you need to do is remove the cotter pin from the bottom of the actuating rod that runs from the carb to the omp and then pull the washers off the bottom of the same rod. Next, pull the rod upward so that the lower end of it pulls out of the actuator link on the omp. Now disconnect the nylon feeder tubes from the lower end where they are held onto the omp via small spring clamps. Finally, remove the two bolt that hold the omp onto the front cover (you'll need a 10mm socket/ ratchet/ extension and a 10mm open end wrench to do this) and then pull the omp away from its mounting surface and out of the engine bay.

As for the o-rings, in stock form there are only three of these: the two larger ones that fit into the grooves under each end cap, and a specialized rectangular cross-section one that seals the actuating cam. But this one can be successfully replaced by using two 1/4-inch Viton o-rings placed back-to-back in the same groove on the shaft as the specialized one used to occupy.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Gawd..

The OMP is MUCH easier to deal with than that.

It's literally bolted to the side of the front cover with 2 bolts. No need to drain oil or anything. Go stand on the passenger side of your car. Follow the white tubes down from your carb. The thing they attach to has 5 things you have to remove:

1 & 2: Those two white tubes (duh)
3: The metal rod hooking it to the carb linkage
4 & 5: The two bolts holding it in place.

It's that simple. Go out to your car and take a look at it now, bring a mirror 'cause it's kinda difficult to see with the angle. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of mine.

Jon