you need to know about REFORMULATED OIL!!!! REVISITED AGAIN JULY 08
10-19-11, 04:03 PM
#127
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The same as comparing standard valvoline to vr1
10-19-11, 11:31 PM
#132
There's 2 different RP's, the standard oil you find at any advance auto parts, and the racing oil. I believe that everyone talks bad about their regular oil, the racing oil is their quality stuff and what I'm assuming the above article is referring to.
The same as comparing standard valvoline to vr1
The same as comparing standard valvoline to vr1
10-20-11, 05:39 AM
#133
There's 2 different RP's, the standard oil you find at any advance auto parts, and the racing oil. I believe that everyone talks bad about their regular oil, the racing oil is their quality stuff and what I'm assuming the above article is referring to.
The same as comparing standard valvoline to vr1
The same as comparing standard valvoline to vr1
Valvoline conventional and even vr1 are non syn. You have to get the "non street legal" vr1 to get the full syn.
Both, or should I say ALL rp oil is full syn. I would just imagine the higher end rp just has more additives.
Imo rp regular looks to be better than the other reg off the shelf syn.
10-20-11, 10:18 AM
#134
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Eh not really. HP tv used reg rp oil in their build engines and it showed 9-10hp more with just adding the oil.
Valvoline conventional and even vr1 are non syn. You have to get the "non street legal" vr1 to get the full syn.
Both, or should I say ALL rp oil is full syn. I would just imagine the higher end rp just has more additives.
Imo rp regular looks to be better than the other reg off the shelf syn.
Valvoline conventional and even vr1 are non syn. You have to get the "non street legal" vr1 to get the full syn.
Both, or should I say ALL rp oil is full syn. I would just imagine the higher end rp just has more additives.
Imo rp regular looks to be better than the other reg off the shelf syn.
I have RP readily available but never tried it because I've read a lot of negative stories about it.
I think I'm gonna try the Brad Penn oil next time. It's pretty cheap for a racing oil, you can get a 12qt case for just $50-$60 on ebay.
10-20-11, 01:29 PM
#135
Well in my case, I've never used synthetic on my engine, but that's a whole other discussion.
I have RP readily available but never tried it because I've read a lot of negative stories about it.
I think I'm gonna try the Brad Penn oil next time. It's pretty cheap for a racing oil, you can get a 12qt case for just $50-$60 on ebay.
I have RP readily available but never tried it because I've read a lot of negative stories about it.
I think I'm gonna try the Brad Penn oil next time. It's pretty cheap for a racing oil, you can get a 12qt case for just $50-$60 on ebay.
I was the same way like you. Strictly used castrol gtx til about 18 months ago when I decided to run rp, syn for the first time..
If you look up the thread u.o.a analysis thread, you will see I posted reports for 4 oils.
Castrol gtx, Mobil 1 syn, rp syn, and idemitsu syn. Rp and idemitsu showed better figures. Much better than Castrol gtx. And my driving style hasn't changed between the tests. I tried to make it as even as possible.
Brad penn is good oil thought. Iirc a lot of Porsche guys run it.
10-20-11, 06:41 PM
#136
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I'm a big proponent of Idemitsu synthetic for every engine IRP turns out. Ihor has also moved towards recommending VR1 as a non-synthetic oil for the break-in period.
10-20-11, 08:56 PM
#138
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I use this stuff
1. Low viscosity at cool temps (since most engine wear occurs at inital startup)
2. High concentration of ZDDP
3. Low ash formula (I still have my OMP)
4. Synthetic (less friction modifiers to break down changing viscosity grade)
5. Cheap (approximately $3.00 per Qt.)
6. Easily available (Wal-Mart sells it)
John
1. Low viscosity at cool temps (since most engine wear occurs at inital startup)
2. High concentration of ZDDP
3. Low ash formula (I still have my OMP)
4. Synthetic (less friction modifiers to break down changing viscosity grade)
5. Cheap (approximately $3.00 per Qt.)
6. Easily available (Wal-Mart sells it)
John
10-20-11, 09:18 PM
#139
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I think everyone forgets that the "no synthetic" rule was written over twenty years ago.
There have been great strides in synthetics since then, and I too use Idemitsu oil and premix. Car couldn't be happier.
There have been great strides in synthetics since then, and I too use Idemitsu oil and premix. Car couldn't be happier.
10-20-11, 11:38 PM
#140
In the article Howard quoted above (post 126)... they changed from 20W-50 to 10W-30 AND they changed the brand AND they changed the amount of ZDDP. That's three variables in that test. So they had a thrust bearing failure when they changed to Mobil 1 10W-30 with no ZDDP additive. So what did it? The Mobil 1 part? The 10W-30 part? or the lack of ZDDP?
Of course the 10W-30 caused problems in this application--it has way less shear strength, and it won't take long for oil dilution to break down its protection.
Of course the 10W-30 caused problems in this application--it has way less shear strength, and it won't take long for oil dilution to break down its protection.
10-21-11, 08:16 AM
#141
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it would be good if this thread did not morph into an oil thread. the board archives already contain enough speculation on the subject.
if you want to talk oil brands please relate to their content of zinc and phosphorus in keeping w the intent of the thread.
while Robert Young's article does switch brands and viscosity it is clear that the intent of the test is to compare the effect of anti-wear additives in a race engine enviornment. and yes, it might have been better to use similar oils and viscosities.
if i had done the test i would have used the same exact oil and removed the ZDDP+ product.
you can see the anti-wear focus from the accompanying tables (not copied over to this thread) in the original letter... they clearly highlight the amount of Zn and P existent in the various oils.
i do not believe he picked Mobil One or the viscosity to do the non additive part of the test to fail the engine. to the contrary, he picked it, IMO, as being one of the best of the street oils. the concept being that even Mobil One can't protect if it doesn't have the additives.
as mentioned previously i have always run Mobil One, during my 22 racing seasons, in a 10,000 rpm rotary as well as my FD. i have always used 5-30 which was recommended by my Mobil contact. further, my drag racing friend, Jose Le Duc has been making significantly over 1000 rwhp from his 2 rotor and with surprising engine longevity. he has yet to give me bad advice on anything and he specifically states to run nothing but Mobil One 5-30 weight. when Jose pounds the table on something i listen and i take his advice. i note that my engines on the dyno at 8000 RPM make 80 pounds of oil pressure which is plenty.
i especially like the wear surfaces on my stationary gears. i believe Mazda uprated them V prior generations. back in my racing days we were always looking for better wear characteristics so my guess is that they may be the key wear area in our very high hp turbo'd rotaries.
howard
if you want to talk oil brands please relate to their content of zinc and phosphorus in keeping w the intent of the thread.
while Robert Young's article does switch brands and viscosity it is clear that the intent of the test is to compare the effect of anti-wear additives in a race engine enviornment. and yes, it might have been better to use similar oils and viscosities.
if i had done the test i would have used the same exact oil and removed the ZDDP+ product.
you can see the anti-wear focus from the accompanying tables (not copied over to this thread) in the original letter... they clearly highlight the amount of Zn and P existent in the various oils.
i do not believe he picked Mobil One or the viscosity to do the non additive part of the test to fail the engine. to the contrary, he picked it, IMO, as being one of the best of the street oils. the concept being that even Mobil One can't protect if it doesn't have the additives.
as mentioned previously i have always run Mobil One, during my 22 racing seasons, in a 10,000 rpm rotary as well as my FD. i have always used 5-30 which was recommended by my Mobil contact. further, my drag racing friend, Jose Le Duc has been making significantly over 1000 rwhp from his 2 rotor and with surprising engine longevity. he has yet to give me bad advice on anything and he specifically states to run nothing but Mobil One 5-30 weight. when Jose pounds the table on something i listen and i take his advice. i note that my engines on the dyno at 8000 RPM make 80 pounds of oil pressure which is plenty.
i especially like the wear surfaces on my stationary gears. i believe Mazda uprated them V prior generations. back in my racing days we were always looking for better wear characteristics so my guess is that they may be the key wear area in our very high hp turbo'd rotaries.
howard
Last edited by Howard Coleman; 10-21-11 at 07:32 PM.
10-21-11, 10:45 AM
#143
10-21-11, 02:02 PM
#145
Racing Rotary Since 1983
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the "tidbit" is too interesting for just a link...
"Can Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck be Used in a High Compression Car?
I was wondering if Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 is safe to run in a standard American unleaded fuel only V6 DOHC high compression car? 5W-30 does not cut it for my needs and I want to use 5W-40 FULLY synthetic motor oil. So my question to you is, Will Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 have any ill effect on the motor I want to use the oil in? What makes the diesel oil so special? Does it supersede the oil made for gasoline engines?
-- Rick Speare, Clinton Township, MI
Answer:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck is an outstanding oil that can be used in gasoline passenger cars since it carries API SM credentials, so we would not have any concerns about performance. Diesel engine oils generally contain higher levels of detergents, dispersants, and antiwear additives, but keep in mind that higher levels of the ZDDP antiwear additive can be detrimental to catalytic converters and other emission control equipment over time, which is why this additive has been reduced in ILSAC GF-4 oils. Also you will not see optimum fuel economy benefits with diesel type oil "
Mobil.
read between the lines
howard
"Can Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck be Used in a High Compression Car?
I was wondering if Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 is safe to run in a standard American unleaded fuel only V6 DOHC high compression car? 5W-30 does not cut it for my needs and I want to use 5W-40 FULLY synthetic motor oil. So my question to you is, Will Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 have any ill effect on the motor I want to use the oil in? What makes the diesel oil so special? Does it supersede the oil made for gasoline engines?
-- Rick Speare, Clinton Township, MI
Answer:
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck is an outstanding oil that can be used in gasoline passenger cars since it carries API SM credentials, so we would not have any concerns about performance. Diesel engine oils generally contain higher levels of detergents, dispersants, and antiwear additives, but keep in mind that higher levels of the ZDDP antiwear additive can be detrimental to catalytic converters and other emission control equipment over time, which is why this additive has been reduced in ILSAC GF-4 oils. Also you will not see optimum fuel economy benefits with diesel type oil "
Mobil.
read between the lines
howard
10-21-11, 02:25 PM
#146
I'm glad that I only picked up three bottles of the ZDDP additive. I'll have to read about the Diesel oil a bit.
FYI, I've found this site to be a good source of info:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ ... check the forums out.
FYI, I've found this site to be a good source of info:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ ... check the forums out.
10-22-11, 01:29 PM
#147
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I'm glad that I only picked up three bottles of the ZDDP additive. I'll have to read about the Diesel oil a bit.
FYI, I've found this site to be a good source of info:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ ... check the forums out.
FYI, I've found this site to be a good source of info:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ ... check the forums out.
10-26-11, 10:55 PM
#148
I've been espousing bobistheoilguy for over 7 years! Excellent site.
Regarding the reformulated oils not having enough ZDDP/wear protection this was taken from the Mobil 1 Racing Oil FAQ (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...AQs.aspx#FAQs5).
In short, Mobil 1 acknowledges that NONE of their automotive street use oils have sufficient ZDDP due to emission equipment compatiblity.
QUOTE:
Q: You say that Mobil 1 Racing oils are not for street use. Why is that? Does that mean I can't use these oils if my race car is also my daily driver?
A: Automotive street use oils that meet the latest industry standards are required to have a lower level of Zinc and Phosphorus anti-wear chemistries than oils formulated years ago. The latest automotive street use engine oils are designed to be compatible with emission control equipment. Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils [nominal zinc level of 1850 ppm] to provide enhanced protection of highly loaded valve train systems found in some race engines. Based on the high level of anti-wear chemistries, Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use.
Regarding the reformulated oils not having enough ZDDP/wear protection this was taken from the Mobil 1 Racing Oil FAQ (http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...AQs.aspx#FAQs5).
In short, Mobil 1 acknowledges that NONE of their automotive street use oils have sufficient ZDDP due to emission equipment compatiblity.
QUOTE:
Q: You say that Mobil 1 Racing oils are not for street use. Why is that? Does that mean I can't use these oils if my race car is also my daily driver?
A: Automotive street use oils that meet the latest industry standards are required to have a lower level of Zinc and Phosphorus anti-wear chemistries than oils formulated years ago. The latest automotive street use engine oils are designed to be compatible with emission control equipment. Mobil 1 Racing oils are formulated with anti-wear (Zinc/Phosphorus) chemistries at twice the level of automotive street oils [nominal zinc level of 1850 ppm] to provide enhanced protection of highly loaded valve train systems found in some race engines. Based on the high level of anti-wear chemistries, Mobil 1 Racing oils are not recommended for street use.
10-26-11, 11:22 PM
#149
howard, I run 20-50w non-synthetic castrol. My question is does this additive work primarily with SNYTHETIC oil or doesnt matter?
Do you recommend motors to run synthetic even if we are using the factory OMP? Ive always assumed we shouldnt unless we ditch it and pre-mix. I personally premix with the omp as well.
Do you recommend motors to run synthetic even if we are using the factory OMP? Ive always assumed we shouldnt unless we ditch it and pre-mix. I personally premix with the omp as well.
10-27-11, 12:28 AM
#150
+1 for the HDEO's such as Chevron Delo, Mobile Delvac and Shell Rotella. I particularly like the Delo 400 15-40w as it has copious amounts of zinc, phosphorous, moly and boron, the latter of which is [also] an important EP lubricant, especially for gears. These types of oils are designed to do double duty and lubricate gearboxes as well as engines--and as such, seem to be well suited to the rotary. They are also reasonably priced, and easy to find.