Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

a decent thread so far... thanks for the contributions.

i will be calling re Mobil One tomorrow and will post whatever i learn.

GM Camshaft and Lifter Prelube interests me. if it contains ZDDP i will add it to my non reformulated oil.

might someone on the board know who to call to find out chemical content? Part Number 12345501. GM offers an Engine Assembly Lubricant PN 1052367 which is a Moly containing substance. Moly is not mentioned w the Camshaft and Lifter Prelube.

the article states, "If running API SM/GF-4 street oils, consider adding a 4 ounce bottle of GM camshaft and lifter lube at every oil change to protect in-service flat tappets."

does it contain ZDDP????

I suspect that most of us have been using the recently reformulated street oils and given the special needs of the rotary will want to recapture the ZDDP additive complex. recall that in the article a major engine builder states he has seen more friction related failures in the last 3 years than in the prior 30.

do you feel lucky? if not you'd better plan a new lube strategy.

howard coleman

Rx7@Rocketship.com

Thank-you very much for your contribution and sharing this with everyone.

Can you confirm Motul type? I can't seem to find 3004T?

Reference site...
http://www.motulcanada.ca/html/produitsE.html

Thanks!
David

Improved FD

I know what you're thinkin' punk,
you're thinkin did he fire 6 shots or only 5?
but bein' this is a 44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world,
and will blow your head CLEAN off,

you gotta ask yourself a question....

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

^^^ Clint Eastwood???


And could please someone answer my queston?? What's so important about zddp for a rotary?

krf

not entirely sure if this is the same thing but its about the closest i found

http://www.motorspot.com/dir.cfm?sec...1&end=&itemid=

RX7_Fanatic

so you guys are talking about using motorcycle spec oil in rotary engines?

forgive my newbness if the knowledge can be applied to both engines =p

ive always used regular mineral 20w50 penzoil in my car and have had nothing bad to say about it...however I've been told that switching to synthetic can cause unwanted removal of deposits that the mineral oil has created...is this true?

I'm always open for suggestions on how to increase the reliability of the rotary engine, and motor oil is probably one of the biggest concerns we have to deal with when considering wear and tear...so more input on this subject would be greatly appreciated about switching from mineral to synthetic or what alternatives i have if i want to stick to mineral but retain the added wear protection of ZDDP that you guys are talking about...or is that only synthetic motor oils?!? O_o

Section8

iTrader: (6)

i'm interested in this follow up as well, since I am still using mineral oil in my car too.

Kento

Sorry everyone, made a mistake, it is indeed 300V, not 3004T

RX7_Fanatic

hehe its 300v4t i think close enuf you get the point i think its a 15w50 motor oil full synthetic but that doesnt help me with my concern still unanswered.

Kento

Zinc and phosphorous are needed anywhere there is lubrication without oil pressure, or areas where the pressure can be high enough that if the proper clearances aren't maintained, metal-to-metal contact can occur. Normally viscosity takes care of protecting in this situation by maintaining the oil film, but these extreme pressure additives form a "sacrificial final barrier" in case viscosity isn't enough. Areas where this could be the case are the rotor gears and e-shaft.

hus

Not trying to take this in a different direction but I've read many articles that say that Castrol Syntec BLEND is best for turbocharged engines, but nothing specific to rotaries. How is ZDDP affected in a Blend formula?

Kento

Sorry, I can only answer so many questions at a time...

The majority of petroleum oils available are all abiding by the current API standards, so yes, they are also reducing zinc and phosphorous content.

The only detrimental effect from switching from petroleum to synthetic oils is your wallet gets thinner. It's not the synthetic oil that will cause "unwanted removal of deposits"; it's the detergent additive/qualities of the particular oil. Any petroleum oil deposits removed by detergents will eventually be collected by your oil filter; they won't come off in huge chunks and ruin your bearings and oil pressure, if that's what you're thinking.

Kento

Although the amount of additives vary from brand to brand, synthetic/petroleum blends-- especially a name brand like Castrol-- still abide by the API standards. If the bottle has the gold starburst with API SL or SM standard, that means they have the reduced levels of ZDDP additive.

I see no reason why Castrol Syntec blend would be "best for turbocharged engines." I would go with a full synthetic if you're going to spend the money.

luey02

iTrader: (1)

just for following up:

any engine could use the benefits of an oil additive. Without going into the detail, let me just say that engine and components have different enviroments where it requires lubrication. Different environment inside an engine means the variations is contact clearance, temperature, pressure, relative speed... But for a oil at a certain viscosity value, it can only optimally lubricate in ONE environment. Therefore, these oil additives is merely trying to make the oil lubricates better when its viscosity is not working optimally. Typically under high pressure/temperature/slow moving environment. Your apex seal isn't one of those places I dont think....

hus

Thanks for the quick reply. I see no reason for it to best either. I just left Castrol's website and although they do not say it is "best" for turbocharged engines, it does say, "Exceeds all car and light truck manufacturers' warranty requirements for the protection of gasoline and turbocharged engines where API SM, SL, SJ or SH is required."

I guess some performance tuner mags tooks this as a "best" for turbocharged engines.

Anyway, I'll be doing an oil change tomorrow and had planned on going Mobil 1 but might check into the Motul 300V. Thanks for the input

JConn2299

Interesting thread, interesting article (I gave it a quick scan at the newsrack) but I'm not so sure I'm willing to accept the premise. Has there been a rash of oil related rotary engine failures during the past 3 years? If so, it's news to me.

Improved FD

FD engines have a few other problems

Kento

We're talking about zinc and phosphorous, which adhere to metal surfaces and form the "last ditch barrier" when the oil film completely breaks down and metal-to-metal contact occurs...I'd tend to call that worse than "not working optimally."
Like the rotor gears and e-shaft...
Uh...never said it was. Read my fourth reply of this post.

hus

Ok, so the Motul 300V? I understand that it's formulated specifically for race engines and such. So if I use my FD as mostly a short tripper with maybe one long road trip every other month and a few 3rd gear roll-on races here and there, is Motul 300V still a viable option or should I just stick with any base full synthetic such as Mobil 1? I don't do track days and don't plan on the drag strip anytime soon. So, to Motul or not to Motul, that is the question

krf

Theres a checkered flag on the bottle... how can you go wrong?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Kento, I know from my reading (and in no small way from your help in answering my many questions) that Group II and III products are comprised of a cocktail of various size molecules, while the Group IV base stock oils are comprised of molecules that are all exactly the same size (making them highly resistant to breaking or shearing, and thus highly resistant to forming sludge or viscosity changes, and they also hold up better in higher temperatures under all conditions). Few synthetic oils truly qualify as Group IVs (the whole Castrol vs. Mobil debate). But I never heard of Group V oils until now. Is the unique characteristic of Group V oils that they're fully ester-based (in addition to the assumption that all the molecules are exactly the same size)?

Holy smokes. I - along w/ many other forum members - have wondered for YEARS what Kento did, as he's obviously one of *the* most knowledgeable guys on the forum in many areas. No matter how many times he shoots down my posts I'm always interested in what he has to say Kento, my hat's off to you.

Yea Kento, I was curious if you were referring to what you use in your motorcycle, or was this your recommendation overall? I have no idea what operating temps or difference in stress/strain a motorcycle engine sees, although I do know many of them rev well up to 14K rpm

Really? That's news to me. I've been on the forum for hmmm...4 years now, and have yet to hear of a *single* oil-related engine failure Trust me, we have MUCH bigger issues to worry about, namely those parts that the anti-wear additives aren't really meant - esp. the apex seal/rotor housing walls

That reminds me of when some guys were trying to get me to use TX-7 engine lubricant in my RX-7. They were like "TX-7 in the RX-7...how can you go wrong?!" haha.

~Ramy

Improved FD

welcome to what, 8 years ago? http://www.primedia.com/divisions/en...ia/sportrider/

Kent can correct me, but I believe he took over for Nick Ienatsch, who I had the pleasure of meeting while riding through the Blue Ridge Parkway

one of my fave articles from Nick http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7304/thePace.html

Improved FD

again, welcome to 8 years ago

Kento

Yes.
I was referring to what I use in my FD.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Below is a link to the scanned images of the article "When Good Cams Go Bad":

http://www.compcams.com/Community/Ar...p?ID=945638917

I tried uploading all of the scanned pages for our archive, but they are too big per my upload file size.

Enjoy,

:-) neil