L/A intercoolers are primarily used for drag setups because it doesn't take long for the water in the intercooler to heat up to engine operating temperatures and then it's like not having an intercooler at all. That's why air-to-air works better for street use. You'd be better off making an intercooler that has channels between the fins that your a/c compressor could pump freon through. When you're ready to race, turn off the a/c so you lose the parasitic drag from the compressor and the intercooler remains ice cold during your run. I had this idea before I saw that ford had installed something similar on it's Lightining truck. I think it'd be pretty easy to manufacture and I'm suprised nobody has done it sooner. Along with that, you could even put a jacket around part of the intercooler piping and do the same thing. Probably overkill but I'm an overkill kinda guy. Also, run an Aquamist water injection system.

 

Your right about MOST l/a setups....BUT not this one. The reason that happends is the engine bay is so hot and all that heat is absorbing into the metal and heating up the water. The small heat exchangers aren't enough to exchange all that heat in addition to the heat the charge air makes.

HOWEVER, this unit is EXTREMELY well insulated with thermal insulation that is VERY expensive (reason for cost of unit) and its not going to heat soak. This is no ordinary insulation and I'm not ready to give the info on it except to say that its not going to be absorbing engine bay heat so all the heat exchanger has to worry about is the charge air heat. In addition with a good size h.e., a high flow magnetic driven pump (doesnt introduct its own heat into the water), and 2.5 gallons of water its going to be overly sufficient to deal with the charge heat. In addition to that you can always dump in ice at the track (or really anytime you want too, it doesnt have to be at the track) and get well below ambient air temps.

BTW - Funny you mentioned a "jacket" for the IC pipes....cause I'm working on that right now....in addition to a few other "tricks"

 

So there is a pump that pushes the intercooler water through a heat exchanger? So the ambient air would cool the water? Not being sarcastic, just trying to figure out how this works.

 

Yes, there is a pump to push the water thru a heat exchanger that is mounted in the nose of the car and everything else thats located in the engine bay is "insulated"

STEPHEN

 

Ok, so the coldest the water will get (after a few hours of street driving) will be the same temperature as the ambient air cooling it. So if the water is the same temperature as the ambient air, isn't that the same as have an air-to-air? I know water has better heat dissipating qualities than air, but in my mind I'm thinking "Ok the fins that are in contact with the charge air are still the same temperature on either intercooler." Help de-confuse me if you will.

 

i wouldnt go out and spend $2000 (even more for me in aus,) on something that isnt tried and proven. though im not saying it doesnt work.

though posting some results would make alot more ppl interested (at least i think.)

 

Well, I wasnt actually asking anyone to send me any money. I was basically saying if the IC was available and this is how the IC performs would you pay $2K for it. Not would you pay 2K for it right now lol

STEPHEN

 

Yes, during driving conditions the water should stay right abount ambient temps. The difference is ambient temp water will draw out much more air than ambient temp air because water can absorb 4x more heat than air with no temperature change. This means that while it is true that both "cooling media's" are ambient temps the water will pull more heat out of the IC and charge air than the air will. This is why a air to air never creates ambient air temps. It cant draw enough heat and fast enough to get the charge temps down.

In addition, you can put in a $1 bag of ice that can be purchased at any gas station and go racing with WAY below ambient air temps.

STEPHEN

 

this begs for a $1200 base model, with standard a/w ic pump, and economical insulation on IC and outlet pipe.

A large 1" thk multipass core, designed for low pressure water and not 150 psi oil, would fit std in front of ac coil for all models, with fan-mod to eliminate heat soak at idle/hot-traffic.

Resevoir tank would be optional, for drag race use. fancy pump and nasa insulation also options.

 

Sounds excellent. I would definetely pay $2000, I mean c'mon, some vendors ask over $2300 for the HKS SMIC. Would this be a FMIC, HMIC, or a V-mount setup?

 

I agree it would be nice to have a $1200 unit but even if I took out the insulation and down graded the pump to a cheaper unit it wouldnt save enough to drop that much. It MIGHT could be shaved down to $1500 like that but I dont even know if it could get that cheap. In addition it wouldnt work as well except in a race only application cause the unit would absorb to many BTU's/hr from the engine bay and eventaully heat soak if you were driving it on the street. It wouldnt be too bad when you were driving but once you stop and the water heat soaked it would take forever to cool back off. That is the normal prob of a l/a and its basically the only reason you dont see them around much.

STEPHEN

 

With minimal insulation/shielding, heat soak for this package will be minimal if pump is kept on, front core is efficient (not an oil cooler loop), and rad fans are used when at low speed/idle. thought scirroco rad core would work well. autospeed has a fancy pump contoller for about $50.

A/L is used in several us sc applications, as well as mercedes sc 'kompressor' models, iirc.

kit would be easy install ... easier to run 3/4" heater hose up front vs 3" aluminum tubing, and 1" core vs 3" core.

note ray lockheed (sp) with SR motorsports ran seveal a/l units for his drag car.

 

How much would all of this l/a stuff weigh as in comparison to an a/a IC??

 

I would buy it if I got another FD. But as I already have a Greddy FMIC I wouldn't be interested. Too much money already into IC, can't justify switching it. Sounds great though and if developed I would buy it for any future FDs.

 

I'm not a cheap bastard .............. wait a minute ............ sorry, I got that one wrong

No, I wouldn't pay 2000.

 

A nice idea, but I would have reservations on weight, additional complexity, the water pump's power draw (especially with fans to try and prevent heat soak during street driving, which I'm not fully convinced it would be able to accomplish) at idle, and possible bodywork fabrication requirements to install. I would probably pass on spending $2000.

 

Kento - There isnt any body fab work at all. The install would be much easier than a FMIC. The water pump is designed for a automotive application and shouldnt have any problem with current draw. There are no fans the way its designed, there is no heat soak because its got theral insulation

STEPHEN

 

The presence of heat stagnation is a larger issue that requires a solution (such as Ron's) in order for additional heat exchangers to impart any more advantage.

 

and i was saying that even if it was available, if the product is new people will be sceptical

 

OK here's what I think.

After a few WOT runs, the water is going to get pretty hot, even with a little radiator trying to cool it. It seems to me that outside air would do a better job of cooling the intercooler at that point. Outside air being around 80* as opposed to 150*/or higher water.

 

Thats basically just a matter of the heat exchangers efficiency. WIth it being located in the nose (outside ambient temps) and fairly large I think it should be sufficient to extract the heat that the IC produces.

If however its found not to be I'll just use a larger 1" thick radiator (heat exchanger) and mount it in front of the radiator. That would work like a champ, especially since the stock radiator fans would constantly draw air thru it. Really the more I think about it I might just go that route anyway.

STEPHEN

 

adam,

Water -> Air is better at heat exchange, if you have the space for it.

 

Go into a little more depth. Are you refering to heat stagnation inside the a/l IC or in the engine bay over all or what?

STEPHEN

 

I would consider it. A fmic is 1200$ to 1400$ so for a extra 6-8 hundred more it would be worth it.

 

Engine bay overall.

You must setup a matrix of thermistors under the hood and log voltage readings under various conditions (highway, city, stopped, accel, etc.) to begin mapping out the heat "flow" under the hood for starters.

My point about heat stagnation representing a larger problem is that air is not going to just decide to flow through the exchanger just because it is present. If there is enough of a flow issue under the hood it's going to create pressure differentials which a: affect flow through all of the heat exchangers, b: affect car aerodynamics.