RX794

While I was at Englishtown for the fallnationals I got into a extended conversation with a product
developer/designer for a MAJOR performance company that makes a variety of products, as well as aluminum oil pans. They have street/strip, and full race applications for different motors, they also make aluminum oil pans for rotary motors, either 12A and 13B, here is an example of some of the advantages of what one of their 13B aluminum oil pan application offers:

Fully fabricated for exceptional strength and to provide several design advantages over stock-core pan; aluminum construction is lightweight and helps dissipate heat
Rugged 3/8" thick billet aluminum gasket rail with integral cross-brace serves as a girdle to greatly strengthen the entire engine assembly and reduce flexing under hard driving
Includes .080"-thick aluminum Baffle Plate to de-aerate and cool return oil
Dual trap-door baffles hold oil in the sump area during hard acceleration to ensure constant oil supply and oil pressure
Enlarged sump increases capacity to 6.25 quarts (with stock oil cooler installed), while adding only a quarter-inch in depth to provide ample ground clearance
Includes magnetic drain plug with extra copper washer, pan mounting kit with hex-drive steel studs to eliminate stripping the engine block and serrated-face flare nuts to withstand vibration
Accommodates stock pan gasket and dipstick (with modification)
Use with stock oil pump pickup
Includes oil temperature sender provisions

Where the conversation really got interesting is when I asked him that I wanted to purchase a aluminum oil pan
like this for my FD, BUT they didn't offer one, so then we started talking about the infamous oil leaking FD pan, the engine bolt holes going through the pan, not that much capacity in the pan, etc, etc. At this point the product devoloper/designer states to me that he can actually design the aluminum oil pan in probably 2-4 weeks, even though his company won't release anything until it's been tested for about 6 months or so. I asked him what is stopping his company from making this application, he stated to me that they need to see a reason that people will buy the pan, he told me that maybe if we can get alot of people to have an interest in that pan, feel a need for it, and some
buy it, then his company would pretty much build one for our application. The biggest advantage I see for FD owners in purchasing this pan is the whole structurcal reinforcement a pan like this would add to the engine assembly due to having a bigger gasket rail and integrated cross brace, more baffles to stop oil starvation at hard acceleration/deceleration, more oil capacity, and of course helping with the infamous leaks, once again helped by the bigger gasket rail/and or cross brace. I'm thinking probably every FD owner would purchase an oil pan like this, and definately anyone racing an FD. So basically, me, and the product developer/designer want to see the interest in the making of this pan. I have the product developers contact information, and e-mail address, and will keep him updated on this thread so that he can see if there is any interest with this pan. I know alot of you have wanted something like this, so depending on this thread we'll see if it can happen. I also want to state that the company we're talking about here won't answer any questions at this point, and won't allow me to post the name of it, due to legal, and ethical standards that they go by, BUT you can look and see(from what I wrote) which company I'm talking about if you do some research. They've been around for a LONG time, and their racing products are built second to none. Please write any statements or opinions on this thread, as well as how serious you'd be about buying an aluminum oil pan like this for your FD, thanks.

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like a GREAT product, something that we really need. I am sure you will get a lot of positive feedback on this one.

I would definitely be interested. My oil pan is not leaking but I would consider this a necessary upgrade the next time building the engine.

As for the issues with the oil pan leaking, some say don't use the gasket, some say use the gasket. Some say use dealer silicone, some say use the gray one from Pep Boys.

Either way, with this oilpan, we would not have to worry these items anymore. THe most annoying thing is an oil leak on your new driveway or garage floor!

Keep us posted on the development of this.

Anthony

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

it needs to hold more oil too

mike

RX794

That is one of the things that will be addressed.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

sounds cool

ijneb

Whats the price range on their pans already in production?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I'm interested.. I'll be building an engine beginning of next year.. so, i would be very interested..

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I'd buy one. The FD pan has some pretty big interior baffles, and I'm pretty sure the oil starvation is NOT a problem. It would be important to me that they replicate the stock baffling.

Also in all likelyhood the aluminum pan will be heavier than the stock steel pan. Aluminum is 3x lighter than steel, but to cast the pan in AL it'll need to be thicker than steel...
Any additional thickness in the area of the motor mounts will actually LIFT the motor up. If the stock pan is .040" and the new one turns out to be .125" thick in that area the motor will be higher, not much but it WILL lift it.

I don't know how much bigger it could be, the FD pan fits pretty close to the bottom of the car.


Last thought, it would be nice if it were a finned pan. You can actually get quite a bit of cooling effect from a finned pan.

94RXMAGEE

iTrader: (3)

Has anyone ever tried the ones already offered by Moroso? They have been for sale for a long time in summitsportcompact.com.

RX7SpiritR

iTrader: (1)

sounds good.

RX794

The area around the motor mounts will be worked out so that it's not as thick as the rest of the pan I assume, so it does not lift the motor up, it will fit like a stock pan, don't worry, it's gonna be made to fit the FD like stock, I have some ideas on how they're gonna do this, but I'll let the product developer/designer deal with that.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I REALLY doubt that they are going to cast the AL pan as thin as the stock steel sheetmetal around the motor mounts. It just isn't practical to do, especially considering how HARD it is to remove the pan after it's been siliconed on. Have you ever taken a pan off a FD? It gets stuck on there pretty good, even if it is a leaker. Steel bends, cast aluminum cracks... I've designed aluminum and magnesium die-cast parts before so I have a little experience here.

Flyrx7

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to get a Moroso pan, probably around the first of the year, but if this pan gets the go ahead I'd consider waiting.
Price will be a consideration too, but if it has a finned bottom and good baffling I could wait until it gets developed. Hell, I'd even consider being a test mule too if they want to just give me one

Regards,
Frank

93blackrx

that sounds like a nice pan to me... I would be interested

Matt

Fd3BOOST

iTrader: (7)

I would take one for sure.

rxsevn89

I would be concerned about the cost. If it is with in reason, I would be interested in it.

DamonB

Why do I want a different oil pan? Increased volume would be nice in race applications perhaps, but I don't see it lending anything other than highly marginal improvements in engine stiffness due to the rotary's sandwich construction; the pan isn't going to be able to contribute much there. I have not heard yet of any oil pick up problems from anyone either?

RX794

The motor will benefit from increased oil capacity, also, why do you think people pin motors? The way the pan helps structurally is by holding all the housings together on the oil pan gasket rail which will also have a cross brace, it's kinda like comparing it to a block girdle on a 2 piece aluminum block of an piston motor.

Flyrx7

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, what's up with the modification for the stock dipstick? What's involved there?

Frank

RX794

All this will be worked out as the pan gets developed, like I said we're just trying to guage the interest in it, to see if it will be made.

Devilish

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=12119

I know it says 13B's only up to '85, but I've heard you can use them on our cars. $279.95 from Summit. Way nice, 6.25 quarts.

jabbasbmfrx7

seems nice would be good if you can give us an idea on pricing.

Shane
Owner RotaryWorks

rxrotary2_7

just one glance at that you should be able to tell that it wont work in an FD chasis. hell it wont work in a 85 chasis....

i would be interested in seeing this pan for an FD. if you are going to be involved, it would be nice to watch the development of it too.

DamonB

I understand why people pin motors; to prevent the housings from trying to twist apart. The pins in the housings are loaded perfectly in shear and are thus highly efficient at their job. The pan is merely strapped across the bottom of the motor with few bolts actually seeing this load, it won't have much to contribute to preventing twisting of the assembly.

I don't think you can do much better in holding the housing together than the tension bolts already do. The housings are essentially large, flat disks that are clamped around their circumference by the tension bolts. How are the housings going to be clamped by bolts that are not in the direction of the load?

A rotary is fundamentally different from a piston engine block. A block literally has a giant hole in the bottom from midway through the main bearings on down. The piston bores also slant upwards through the deck of the block. What you're left with is basically a large perforated casting that can see benefit from the addition of a structural oil pan. A rotary has no big "hole" in it. The bottom of the motor is merely cast to allow a place to bolt the pan on.

I would like to see how the new pan is going to increase the oil capacity of an FD though; I don't see how there is room because of the front subframe.

rxrotary2_7

i have to agree with Damon on this....