rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

Hi Team,

Rounding turn 7 at Sebring, hard right hand safety pin car bogged. Eased of gas until it settled then it wouldn't pass ~4k rpm. Forced itself dead. Popped clutch in third and made it to turn 13. Died again. Popped clutch and limped it back to paddocks where it died for good.

Cranks all day and sounds sooooo close when I pump the gas.
Checked fuel by disconnecting filter and cranking.
Checked spark by pulling rear rotor cable and watching NGK spark.
Checked all the fuses and swapped around relays. EGI, Main, Engine etc..
Plenty of gas and oil...
Checked queasy feeling in gut, still there.

Thanks for any help,

Chef-j

Have you check a battery.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Check your fender liner, on the driver side..

I know there are a bunch of wiring just passed that. Maybe after all those hard right turns you have done in the past, ripped apart that fender liner and had the wiring exposed and i guess it chewed that up too??

Just a guess but never know. And yeah check batt too.

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

Hey guys,

Yes checked batt, hooked new one up, tried booster pack, push started and even tried jumping it with another car.

Checked fender well for any exposed wires and there are none. But that was a good guess!

Any thing else?
Thanks,

mad_7tist

compression.......?

TEDDER1

iTrader: (1)

I was thinking that one too...

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

I don't have a pressure guage but a local guy told me his FC wouldn't start with as low as 27psi of fuel.

Next step is to pull the leading plug of the front rotor to see if it is dry or soaked with gas. If it's dry then I will check my fuel lines under the drivers seat to make sure they aren't smashed shut from the rumble strips then move onto the injector signal. If it's wet, I will plug the hole with my finger and crank it. Hopefully I will feel three puffs of air :-(

Tom93R1

iTrader: (2)

Fuel pressure is my guess, you should be able to get a pressure gauge set at the local parts store on their free rental tool program.

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the lead. I will check in with them on Thursday to see if they have a loaner set.
Pulled plugs and they do have gas on them.
Clearly got three puffs of distinct air from front and back rotor.

Thanks and keep the tips coming :-)

HawaiianRedMako

It could be flooded..if so..there are threads to do the un-flood procedure. Or, after reading your post about making a tight turn, was your gas tank level at that time BELOW 1/4 tank?

If so, you may have temporarly experienced fuel cutoff when the gas through momentum, moved opposite of the fuel pump, which then sucked air into the fuel lines? Lucky you didn't overleaned and detonate the apex seals!

If so, then you need to remove the air pockets in the fuel system, line, and rail. Do the purge technique, its also listed in this forum. I've done it, but off my head, don't remember exactly...been awhile.

If you still have problems starting, check the ignition coils and igniter or one of the cutoff electrical subsystems. Try looking at the clutch pedal switch, sometimes the plastic backing comes off, preventing the switch from engaging, preventing the FD from starting.

Hope this helps?

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Compression test it, stop wasting time on other stuff until you do this. Listening for pulses thru the spark plug holes is just guess work.

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

Hi DJ and Mako,

The pulses were strong and equal on all six. They didn't vary much or if any. I have looked at all of your stuff Mako, except the air in the lines. The fuel level was/is over half a tank, so I don't think I starved it. It's not flooded but I am getting fuel to the leading plugs.

Autozone was out of fuel pressure guages and they don't rent them. I will try another store next. I am thinking/hoping/praying the stock '92 fuel pump finally died all of a sudden. I also heat stressed my stupid dimpled front driver's rotor into cracking in half. I can't tow it anywhere to have it properly compression tested:-(

HawaiianRedMako

Get a regular compression gauge and remove the relief pin valve before attaching to the spark plug. It will show 3 bumps each time the rotor rotates, you can do it yourself by removing the fuel pump and ignition relay fuses and using a remote starter switch...better have an assistant turn the key.

Do the compression test first before assuming its the fuel pump, since you're getting fuel to the plugs. When was the last time you changed the gas filter located next to the tank?

I don't know your car's maintenance record.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

Compression check it for real. Just buy a compression guage. I love rotaries and all, but the way most people treat these cars comp testers should be provided along with the tire iron and lugnut key.

It sounds like you flooded it. Don't know why you would say it isn't flooded. If you have gas on the plugs it's flooded and the plugs are probably fouled and not sparking.

Just because the wires are sparking to the plugs doesn't mean that the plugs are firing at the combustion chamber. Fouling creates an easier path for the current to travel than the air gap.

Here's the easiest way to do this:

-remove plugs and replace or bead blast and wash, leave plugs out
-remove egi fuse and turn engine over to blow out fuel, adding oil will artificially raise compression results... so don't add much oil if any
-replace trailing plugs and compression test

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

I don't think it's flooding because the car sits for a day/days before I crank it. Also, it won't fire even a little while cranking with the EGI relay and fuse out.

Checked the fuel pressure and the snap on guage said ~65psi.
Checked the compression from the trailing plugs and got 25 on the front and 0 on the back.

Does that sound right? All six faces show nothing? It did start long enough to limp back to the paddock when I popped the clutch twice. I feel that I am doing something wrong with the compression test after these results, but it is pretty straight forward. What is that plastic wire plug that is just above the front trailing plug? It melted everywhere......

Thanks!

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Knock sensor

denalivailboarder

leaky injectors? but it sounds like you're not getting power to the solenoid, which leads to replacing the starter motor.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

When you did the compression test, was the gauge showing bounces of 25psi on the front rotor and nothing on the rear? It is possible you blew the seals in the rear and pieces of them went up thru the primary intake port and then into the front housing, it happens more than you would believe. Make sure the comp tester is threaded firmly into the housing when doing the test. Follow the info on rotaryresurrection.com if you need help doing the comp test. Doesnt look good for you though.

Often times with a blown engine you can get it to restart after hte initial failure but you soon foul the plugs and the car wont run.

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

well, it could still have been flooded at some point during this and fouled plugs usually don't fix themselves with time.

It's not supposed to spark with the EGI fuse/relay out. That's the point of taking it out. To blow all the fuel out of the plug holes you have to remove the plugs and wires, right? Well, you don't want the wires arcing onto electronics or igniting the fuel spraying out the plug holes towards the strut tower. Nor do you want more fuel being added when you're trying to de-flood.

Likewise when you're compression testing; you disable egi so fuel isn't injected and the wires don't arc and zap you.

This might sound stupid, but you had the upper spark plugs installed during the compression test right?

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3r...ion_check.html

If you still get poor results, but they aren't too bad another possibility is the compression area being washed out by fuel. Without a thin coat of oil on the surfaces, the chamber will not seal very well. Squirt a small amount of oil in there to get the car started, then compression check again after driving around and you will get a more accurate compression number for normal operation.

zweetz32

iTrader: (2)

yeah make sure you leave the trailing spark plug in. My engine was giving out 6 even puffs and after weeks of praying that it was good, low compression. should have changed out the engine long ago. Good luck man, but it sounds like you got a F-ed motor.

rajeevx7

iTrader: (11)

Hi Team,

I tried getting the engine to suck some ATF through a vac line. It won't even create enough suction to pick up any fluid. Changed the plugs with another clean set and still no luck. Even sprayed some oil into both chambers to cure the washed out effect. I think I've come to terms with the blown engine, just can't decide what to do next :-(

4 Remans since '98 and I can't do it again. This is the first one that I have personally blown and in hind sight I let it get too hot. Should have backed off and called it a day. I've taken the best care of all the cars and more than simple reliability mods have been done. If another 13b goes in it will be just to sell a running car. I don't want to drop 5k in right now to put a V8 in. Expect to see a part out section in the FS section.

Thank you everyone for your input and help!! :-)

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Well for $2850.00 Shipped you can have one of my engines with seals that wont break, a warranty that is actually a warranty, and if the engine does fail after the warranty period I will rebuild it for $1k Stop playing with the remans and go a better/different route.

Good luck whatever road you decide to go down.

David

junkie81

iTrader: (8)

David,

Sorry to hijack, but you just sold me man. As soon as i get the conformation that my seals are toast i'll be contacting you for an engine. I think thats exactly what we need in this community, a straight forward, don't screw me and i won't screw you type of guy. awesome price and a warranty, what else could someone ask for?

Chef-j

Nice.. this is good deal. I gotta keep you in my book for future if i get an FD.

Chef-j

Just curious...OP any update?